Ross' Soap Box

I went for a long ride up the road with a client today. Her horse was terrific and she'll be taking him home on Saturday. Her horse hesitated in a section of the road where water was running under it. Belinda said to me "Oh well, I guess that's to be expect at this stage. I never expected you to perform miracles." I decided to finish the sentence for her and replied, "And yet I do!" I figure you have to keep these young people in line and respecting their elders.

Michele and I are close to setting dates for a 5 day clinic. I hope to make it public by early next week at the latest. I have already had a lot of interest and I think places will go quickly. If you are interested in attending keep in mind that a spot is only reserved once we receive a deposit. I'll get back to you with dates very soon.

Saddle Fit.... again.

Dear Ross,

Your piece on saddle fitting hit a chord with me. I have had terrible trouble trying to get somebody who knew what they were talking about to fit a saddle to my Anglo Arab that was broken in last year. Three different saddle fitters from ______ looked at her and recommended three different saddles. None of them were comfortable for her and my impression was that their main was to sell me a saddle. After getting annoyed enough to tell the last one they didn't know what they were doing I went to a saddle maker in the Hunter Valley. He was excellent and was happy to look at my mare and answer my questions without being patronizing. AND he didn't try to sell me a saddle. Needless to say I bought a second hand saddle that he had made and was reselling on behalf of another person. My horse has never had a sore day due to the saddle since.

I don't know how some people can call themselves professionals when all they are are flim flam artists. Anyway, I just thought I would let you know that you are not alone in your opinion of some saddle fitters. If I had known more about saddles before I started I'm sure I wouldn't have wasted so much time and money on idiots.

Thanks for your web site.

Best regards

Debra


I'm sorry you had such a bad experience and thanks for relating your story. I have to say it has been years since I heard the term "flim flam."

As I said, saddle fitting is not rocket science, but neither is it perfect. Fitting a saddle to a horse is always a compromise - its not exact. Not only does a horse's back change shape over time, but it changes shape with every step. The shape of a horse is fluid depending on what he is doing. If he is rounding up, his back is flatter. If he has his head high in the air, his back is more concave. As each foot moves the ribs swing left and right and the shoulders move back and forth. All these actions affect how a saddle sits on a horse. The horse is always changing shape, but the saddle isn't. The only way around this that i know is to use a treeless saddle, but they come with their own set of issues. So saddle fitting is a compromise. But nevertheless a saddle should be as close to perfect as we can get it and for that to happen there are some basic rules that need to be adhered to. This is the job of a saddle fitter and I don't understand why it seems to be so hard. However, I'm glad it has worked out for you - a badly fitting saddle is a terrible thing for a horse to have to endure.

Cars and Horses

Hi Ross,

What's the best way to get my horse use to cars? He is a 5 year old ex race horse that I've owned for 6 months. I can't ride him on the road because when a car comes past he shys and spins. I'm afraid he is going to shy into a car one day. What can I do?

thanks
Alyssa


I don't have too much to go on Alyssa, but I'll try to give you a couple of things to think about trying.

For safety sake I think I would being on the ground and in a small and safe paddock. Your horse needs to be good on the lead rope and not prone to pulling away. If he is then you need to start with fixing that. But let's assume he is okay on the lead rope.

Have a friend drive into the paddock and park the car. Lead your horse towards the car and walk around it. Don't insist he sniff it or anything - just approach it as best he can. When he makes a little change for the better, lead him away and let him graze for a minute. Then back to the car and repeat the process. Try to encourage him to try harder each time, but don't push him over the edge with more than he can do. When he is at the stage where he can walk beside the car without trying to give it a wide berth, ask your friend to start the car and drive slowly away.

As the car drives away from you, follow it with your horse in tow. Get your friend to slow down so you can catch up and then speed away so it gets a bit of distance from you and gives you another chance to catch up. When this is looking good, it's time to have your friend drive towards you. At first make sure he keeps a distance from you. There is a buffer zone where the horse is okay about the car, but any closer and he'll get worried. Get your friend to be aware of the buffer zone and drive past you each time trying to get closer without terrorizing your horse. Your job is to support and encourage your horse, but not let him flee the scene. It might take a day or two to have this working well. When it is, now it's time to repeat the whole process from the saddle.

Once you can ride around the paddock with your friend driving around you and riding around the car, go out onto the road. Go just out the gate and have your friend drive slowly past. Keep the speed of the car within the limits of what your horse can handle. Have your friend drive back and forth and as your horse starts feeling better the car can get faster. Make sure you work at this with the car coming towards you and coming up from behind the horse. Also the horse needs to learn to be okay if the car is on his left or his right side. If can be a good idea at some point to have your horse trotting down the road after the car. Horses can get a lot of confidence chasing something that moves away from them.

If it all falls apart go back to what the horse was comfortable with. If that means back to the paddock or even back to the lead rope, it's okay. Just start again and build on it. Pretty soon you can up the situation and repeat process with a tractor, motor bike, bicycle, quad bike, car and horse float etc.

I hope that gives you enough to think about. I have only made some suggestions and you need to use your own best common sense. Don't do more than you or your horse can handle and if in doubt get some first hand professional help. Good luck.

Here are a couple of photos of Michele and I training on different horses that were afraid of bicycles

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Another Jumps Race Horse Dies

Over the weekend another horse died in a jumps race in South Australia. It is the third horse this year to have died in S.A.. How many more have to die before jumps racing is banned like it is in every state except S.A. and Victoria? Every equine and animal welfare organization has called for a ban. It's past time for this type of competition to be sent packing to the history archives. I've said it before and I will repeat it again. If it were jockeys who were dying instead of horses there would be a huge public outcry and the racing bodies and state governments would not hesitate in closing down the sport. It's got to happen sometime, but how many more horses will die before the governments overcome their "do nothing" inertia.

Saddles and Saddle Fitting

It's the nature of our business that we are asked to check saddle fit for a lot of our clients. They want to check that their old saddle will fit their new horse before taking home their newly broken in best friend. Now saddle fitting to my mind is not rocket science. There are some very basic things to be aware about and to check with each horse and each saddle. It's not hard and after you've seen several horses and lots of saddles you get a pretty good feel for the way a saddle fits and what needs to be adjusted or not. Nowadays there are professional saddle fitters who will give you their expert and highly skilled advice and more often than not try to sell you a saddle. In fact, many or most saddle fitters are saddle sales people who have completed a short course run by Bates or some other saddle manufacturer. Independent saddle fitters are almost an extinct breed.

That's not to say that some aligned saddle fitters are not very good and helpful. I can thoroughly recommend Neva Ivancic from Horseland in Traralgon, Victoria. She knows what she is talking about and won't sell you a saddle that she does not think is right for you. Melissa Crowl in Seville is another person. She sells treeless saddles and takes her work and her word seriously and is very professional. But lately we have seen a few saddle fitters who are just a joke. They try to sell saddles to people that don't even come close to fitting the horse. One client was talked into buying a saddle that bridged his horse terribly. Another saddle fitter tried to sell a saddle that titled the rider backwards at a terrible angle. When I pointed this out, my client was told that the saddle will pack down in front and it would be okay with a few weeks of riding! Well, it won't pack down in front if it pushes the rider's weight back to the cantle!!

I find it mind boggling that something as simple as fitting a saddle to a horse seems beyond people who claim to be professionally trained to do this. Even harder to find is somebody who understands how to fit a saddle seat to a rider. Most people think the issue is all about how long a seat the rider needs - a 16" or 17"? But this only part of the consideration. When you start talking to people about the twist of the seat and how that effects the rider's seat, comfort and position, you tend to get blank stares. Even from saddle fitters.

I think if you find a good saddle fitter you are lucky. But I don't think people can rely on getting a saddle fitter who knows their stuff just because they are professionals or accredited. The onus is on the horse owner to understand the basics of saddles and fitting them to both the horse and the rider. You need to know enough to avoid being given the run around by eager sales people. It's no different to arming yourself with knowledge about hoof care so that you can tell if you have a good farrier or not. The internet is chocked full of information about saddle fitting. There is also a few saddle makers who do clinics and are happy to advise people. I know the people at Bruce Smith Saddlery in Cranbourne have a lot of knowledge and are good talkers (and make excellent saddles - they also made my last pair of chaps and did a brilliant job).

As I said, when it comes to saddle fitting it's not hard to grasp the important basic, so there is no excuse for making your horse suffer an ill fitting saddle.

Bits

Hello Ross, hows things?   Was just wanting your opinion on horse bits for Danny (the new one), he has a dainty type of mouth and I wanted something lighter and softer for him, I tried a soft rubber one in him today, do you have opinions on different types of bits? obviously a bit is only as soft as the rider's hands but I'd like something thats not quite as heavy as Prince's.   Thankyou!!   Aliy



The type of bit you use is generally far less important than most people think. The critical thing is the education of a horse to respond to the reins. A bit does not make a good mouth or a poor one - only education (good or bad) does that. We use the same bit on every horse that comes through our hands and I can only recall one instant where we needed to change the bit due to the horse's personal preference.

Nevertheless, my main recommendation is to keep to a simple snaffle. I prefer ones with a link in the middle such as a French snaffle because there is less risk of it causing a nutcracker effect against the bars of the jaw and tongue and also pushing into the roof of the mouth when the reins are taken up.

I personally don't like rubber bits, apple bits, hollow bits etc. They interfere with the direct feel that a rein offers. It's not to say that a horse couldn't go well with these types of bits, but I know what works for me and I use consistently use that type of bit.

I've added photos of (1) A french link snaffle, and (2) a training bit (similar to what we use without the German silver) to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

The rings or cheekpieces are not so important as the bit itself. Most horses with normal sized heads are fine in a 12cm (5 inch) bit. But if your horse has a larger head you can buy bits in 1/4" increment sizes.

Some people get particular about the metal used to make the bit. Some people like silver, iron, auger, copper, stainless steel and some like a combination of metals. Again, in my experience the metal does not make too much of a difference - although I tend to stay clear of nickel plated because as it wears it is easy for the bit to develop burs which can cause scratching of the bars of the mouth.

I hope tat answers your question. There is a lot more to bits than what I have put down here and there are several excellent books explaining them if you want to get into the technicalities. But I suspect you just want a recommendation for a type of bit, which I've tried to do.

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What a busy day we had today! It's good to get home and take off my boots. The Kawasaki Mule that we bought a few weeks ago has been the best thing ever for saving my back and legs with doing chores.


Partnership

I was discussing today with somebody about the concept of partnership with horses. I have heard it said many times by people about what a good partnership they have with their horse. In my experience, that usually means that their horse doesn't play up much and they do fairly well in competition. But I think most people mistake partnership with obedience and submission. For most people a good partnership exists when a horse does what is he told without much fussing. However, I don't think that is the same thing as having a partnership.

In my opinion, a partnership is a relationship you have where both parties choose to be in it. In a partnership there is no submission, coercion or slavish obedience. In a partnership, both parties profit from the relationship, which becomes the reason they have for choosing to be in the partnership.

When we talk about a partnership with our horses, it's easy to see what we get out of it. But what about our horses? Is it enough to call it a partnership because we provide our horse with food and veterinary care? Is that enough incentive for our horses to choose to be a partnership with us? In my book, that doesn't count. Feeding and caring for a horse's health is a minimum responsibility of just being an owner - not a partner.

So what else does a horse need in order to choose to hang out with us? I believe a horse needs to feel good in our company and when working with us. We have to offer him comfort and relaxation with the least amount of stress possible. We have to offer him a good place to be, so that he would choose to be with us of his own will. Until we can offer him those things, I don't think we can truly say we have a partnership with our horses. Without those things in place I believe the best relationship we can expect is employer/employee. That's not necessarily a bad thing and in fact it is probably better than a lot of people have with their horse. But it is far from the goal that many of us wish we had of being in partnership with our horse.

I believe than any training that involves the use of pressure that takes away a horse's choices is going in the wrong direction of ever obtaining a partnership. I believe any training that uses pressure to make something happen rather than block something from happening is going to get in the way of a partnership. The use of gadgets, pain and fear are also just creating obedience and submission.

Partnerships between people and horses are extremely rare because even with the best intentions it is extremely difficult to obtain. I think I've only had it a couple of times in my life. I've had plenty of good horses and plenty of good relationships with them - but a partnership is much harder to come by. But I'm still a baby and plenty of horses left before I kick the bucket, so I'm not giving up yet. I think if I spent more time with Six I could definitely establish a partnership with her. Riley is a little bit trickier. He is a wonderful horse and we get along brilliantly, but he is less motivated than Six to make things work out for him. The paradox is that Riley is both physically and mentally capable of being a top level performance horse, whereas Six is more suited to being a good utility horse that excels at nothing in particular.

In any case, my original point is that the term partnership is too easily bandied about as meaning that a horse doesn't try to kill its owner. But much more is involved. And even if a person is never likely to have a true partnership with a horse, it doesn't mean they should not try - every day.


Surface For Round Yard

Hi again Ross.  I just received my Tom Dorrance “True Unity’ book in the mail today and I can’t wait to read it.  Hope I understand it.
Anyway, the reason for my email is to ask what sort of sand you recommend using in a round yard.  I remember you saying that you thought some other surface was better than sand, but I think we are going to have to go the sand option and I know there are a few different types – what is used where you do your work and do you think that is okay?  The sky isn’t the limit for us price wise, but I don’t want to buy something and wished we has spent more on something better.  Also how deep do you recommend to help us work out the qty to get.
Thanks for your opinion.
Cheers
Michelle 

I hope you enjoy Tom's book. I've read it many times and each time some of it takes on new meaning. If you get what he is saying in the first read let me know because I want to come to your clinics. It's a wonderful book and I believe pretty much sums up most of what people need to know about horses and training.

I don't recall what surface I would be referring to other than sand. Most round yards I have experienced have used sand or pea gravel, but some have used wood chip which I don't recommend. I think sand is a good surface, but you have to be particular about your sand. Firstly, it should be double washed to remove virtually all of the clay. Clay in your sand will only cause drainage problems. Secondly, it should be not too fine. I prefer a sand that verges on the coarse side because water drains thought it much better. Fine sand can hold water. A friend in California uses pea gravel. This works well for drainage, but it is very coarse and can cause wearing on the hooves if a horse is barefoot and worked a lot in the round yard.

One test to determine how well your sand drains or retains water is to fill a sieve or colander with the sand. Saturate the sand with water and then pour more water on top of the sand. If the water runs out the bottom easily your sand is okay. If water sits on top and only slowly leaches through the sand, it's not good sand. This of course presupposes that you live in an area where rain is a problem. If you live in a dry area or you are putting a roof over your round yard, then dust is a bigger problem than drainage. You'll find you are wetting your round yard more often than you'd like in order to keep the dust down.

The main advantage of sand is that it is easily obtained, relatively inexpensive and it is not slippery for the horses. For most sands you only need a thickness of about 75mm for the surface.

The disadvantages are that sand can also be very hot in summer. Light coloured sand reflects the heat making the air in the round yard several degrees hotter than outside the yard. Dark coloured sand absorbs the heat making it very hot to walk on.

Also sand can be heavy to move. In a round yard the edges of the track tend to get a build up of sand. It's necessary to keep moving the sand back in order to ensure an even layer of surface over the entire yard. I have a tractor with a special blade attached that clears the sand off the track. But if you don't have a machine to do this, using a rake, shovel and wheel barrow is extremely hard work.

The reason I don't recommend wood chip is that unless it is kept constantly wet it can be very slippery and cause the horse to fall when cantering. The other problem is that the action of the hooves on the wood chip causes it to be ground down into a fine powder over time. As the chip becomes finer it loses it's ability to drain water. The only solution is to remove the entire surface and replace it with fresh wood chip. If the round yard is used heavily it make take a year before it needs replacing. But if it is only lightly used, it make last 5 or more years. You can't add new on top of old wood chip. You also need far more depth of surface with wood chip.

When laying down a surface, always start with the least amount you'll think you need. If it's not enough, it's easy to add more. But it is a lot harder and more expensive to add too much and then have to remove some.

If you have any other questions, let me know.

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The Web Site

I have finally fixed the problem with the web site pages. It took 2 nights of about 5hrs each, but it is seems to be working okay now. Most of the changes are behind the scenes, so you won't notice the difference. However, the most significant improvement for you to notice is that now the Horse Talk page has the full list of essays on both the Principles of Good Horsemanship and Training Tips. It's a rather large page now, so if you are on dial up it may take a little time to fully load. Go to the Horse Talk page and you'll see a list of topics. Click on the bar of the topic of interest and a folder will open below the bar. To close the folder simply click on the bar again. If anybody has any problems or finds any bugs, please let me know.

While on the subject of the web site, it has been suggested to me that our business should have a Facebook page. It is not to be a personal Facebook page, but one for Good Horsemanship only. I know nothing about Facebook, but will look into it. If anybody has any experience with registering a business on Facebook I'd really like to hear from you.

Venting

I just want to get something off my chest regarding car drivers and horses. We are on a fairly quiet dirt road with perhaps an average of only 4 or 5 cars per hour and the occasional truck, tractor, horse float and tradesman's trailer. Most people who travel along it are locals and know to expect the occasional horse and rider. But lately we have experienced almost total disregard by some drivers for the fact that somebody is riding a horse down the road and there is very little verge available. Yesterday, Michele was riding a breaker on it's second outing. A car was coming at about 80km per hour. Michele stepped the horse to the side of the road as much as possible and waved her arms to indicate to the driver to slow down. She took no notice.

A few weeks ago, I was riding a really super horse on it's first road ride when I spotted a car coming towards us really fast. It was still a long way off, so I road into the middle of the road and waved for the driver to slow down. It kept coming. I waved more vigorously, but it still kept coming. When it got about 30m from me, the car drove up onto the grass embankment at around 70-80km per hour in order to swerve around me. I did a really stupid thing and rode the horse up the embankment in front of the car. I was MAD. The guy slammed on his brakes, jumped out of the car and yelled at me to get out of the way. He said he was late for an appointment. I called him a name to indicate he never knew his father and asked him how late he might be if the horse spooked and crashed through his windscreen? We concluded our discussion by mutually agreeing not to send each other Christmas cards this year. But I have noticed that that same car has been travelling a lot slower on the road more recently.

Some people just don't know that horse's will shy at cars. Some don't know that horses will shy into the car. And some drivers don't know that a horse that shies into a car can kill the driver and passengers as much as killing the rider and itself. Ignorance is one thing. But people who live locally, see horses on the road all the time and should know better, have no excuse for driving fast and not giving horses the benefit of the doubt. They should be taken out the back and thrashed with a rabid Chihuahua that has a nasty overbite.

A Riding Horse First

A few weeks ago I talked about what to do with a horse when it goes home from the breaker. The subject came up again today with a client. I explained to the lady that she needs to ride her horse - just ride it. By that I mean riding as opposed to setting out to have training sessions. Most of us only ride our horse when we are working on a project or going on a trail ride with a friend. We pull the horse out of the paddock, brush, saddle. take him to the arena and begin working on things. Usually we are training towards a goal like turning our breaker into a competition dressage horse or a camp drafter or a show jumper or whatever. But very few of us just ride.

To me, before a horse is ever a dressage horse or a polo horse or a reining horse, he has to be a riding horse. A riding horse is one that feels okay about being ridden to the back paddock to check a fence or to the mail box to see if the postman has been. A riding horse is a horse you can ride down the road to a neighbour, tie them up at the gate while you are invited inside for a cuppa and fresh made scones, come out after awhile, step into the saddle and ride home. A riding horse is a horse that you can carry a bag of fencing tools across the pommel of the saddle so he can take you to fix a broken insulator in the foal's paddock. A riding horse is a horse you can lead another horse from or you can sit in the saddle while putting on an oilskin coat. A riding horse is a horse that feels okay to be ridden and treated like a riding horse.

So often we try to turn our green horses into the final thing we want them to be. We buy a horse to fulfill our dreams of riding our favourite discipline. The day he comes home from the breaker is very often the day it is our sole mission to make that dream come true. Some people even try to get that happening while the horse is at the breakers - for example, I have heard it said many times that if you want a dressage horse you must send it to a dressage trainer to be broken in. However, the things that make a horse a good riding horse are only just being instilled by the breaker - they are not concrete yet. That happens at home.

I'm not saying that a person should not do arena work or jumping or cow work when you take a horse home from being started. But I am saying that there should not be a pre-occupation with training a horse to be anything other than a good riding horse. This might take 3 months, 6 months, 12 months or more. But until he is a good riding horse he is not ready to be anything else, To me, it is like teaching a kid to be a good mathematician and able to solve some of mathematics most important questions, but failing to teach him how to pay his telephone bill or to find a house to rent or talk to the opposite sex.

No matter what discipline you want to pursue with your horse, unless he is first a good riding horse, you are selling him short of what he is capable of achieving. When a horse goes home from the breaker, ride him. Ride him with care and compassion. Build on his softness, confidence, focus and trust in everything you do - but ride him - not for long and not hard - just often.

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Since last Thursday I started fiddling with the web site in an attempt to make it run better and also to make navigating to the articles and essays in Horse Talk much simpler. Well, in doing so I have screwed up several of the pages. At the moment neither Horse Talk or essays are working properly. I need to rebuild those sections. Even though you can click on Horse Talk and there is a section in the top menu called training, they don't work as they should and the layout is all wrong. So please be patient as I try to fix the problems in the coming days.

I am also trying to write a new story about Satan today. The magazine deadline is tonight, so I don't have time to write much on the blog today. But the good news is that all those people that have let me know they are waiting anxiously to find out what happens to Satan will have a new installment at the start of August. I should warn you that there will be a long series of stories about Satan and there will be no closure for many months. It will be like trying to read a "who dunnit". But it is my hope that each chapter will give you some insight into how horses can be our best teachers.

Michele and I are talking about scheduling a couple of 5 day clinics in Garfield before the end of the year. We are thinking September and November, but have yet to come up with any firm dates because we have several scheduling conflicts. I'll let you know when we do have definite dates. But in the meantime if anybody has strong interest in a 5 day clinic, it would be great if you can let me know so we can gauge whether 1 clinic or 2 clinics will fill the need.

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More rain. After a week of dry weather where everything was beginning to show signs of drying out, we had 15 mm of rain yesterday and another 13 mm so far today. At least I'm able to keep warm by splitting wood. We have a good supply of stringy bark this year thanks to a fairly large fallen tree last year. It's good burning wood and considerably easier to split than red gum.

Rearing Foal

Hi Ross and Michele,
Hope you are going well.  Have been keeping up with all your news – I’m pleased you didn’t die from your terrible ‘cold’ Ross – I don’t know why men get it so much worse than women – it’s awful isn’t it?

I thought I would send an update photo of Mr Willoughby – not a good one as he was drying out from one of our downpours a couple of weeks ago. At least he doesn’t look so much like a camel or donkey anymore!

I have been going okay with him, but do have a question that you may be able to assist me with.  When he is not happy, confused or stressed a little by what he is being asked – the only answer for him a lot of the time is to go up – front legs straight up in the air.  A couple of examples have been when he is being asked to put his front feet onto the ramp of the float (he will go on okay once or twice and then he decides that he doesn’t want to do it any more and plants himself).  He will just stand there and if there is too much pressure applied, the front feet go up.  Also if we are walking and there is a commotion with the other horses in the next paddock or he gets worried – he panics and loses the plot which is okay, but if I ask him to come forward he will have to rear before doing it.

I’m not sure what I need to do to correct it, or stop it before it happens – could you please give me some advice on this.  If you think it is beyond me and something you could assist with – he could come to you for another learning holiday!!

Cheers
Michelle


Yes, I didn't die, but it was a close call. Thanks for the photo.

The issue with the rearing is not uncommon. He is expressing his feelings on working with you through some issues. But at least he is trying his options, even if it's not what you want. When he rears stay out of the way of his feet, but don't quit the pressure. He needs to understand that while it is okay for him to search out if rearing is going to work, at the same time rearing doesn't cease the pressure. You don't have to get bigger because he is trying something. But you do have to be persistent and show him that rearing will not cause you to release the pressure. He will give it away in time if you are consistent. The worse thing you can do if to back off the pressure because you think you are worrying him.

Having said that, there is a technique that you need to gain competency with. When his front feet leave the ground, quit pulling on the lead rope - put slack in it - otherwise he may go up even higher. But the instant (I mean instant, not a second or two later) his feet touch the ground again put the pressure back on. If he goes up again, put slack in the rope and wait until he lands again before asking him to yield once more. He won't keep the rearing up forever. You are not telling him he can't rear or that he he is in trouble for rearing - you are just showing him that it doesn't work in giving him relief. Eventually, he will try another option and you will rejoice. Anything he does in the direction you wanted will be enough to reward him.

Let us know how you get along and especially get back to me if I am not being clear enough. Good luck.


A Horse’s Respect

Hi Ross,

Me again. I’m sorry to keep throwing questions at you, but I promise this will the last for a while.

Your explanation about the role of obedience in horse training got me thinking about respect. At nearly all the horsemanship clinics I have attended the subject of respect comes up. Trainers place a lot of importance on gaining a horse’s respect. So my question is, in your opinion what role does respect play in training.

I want to thank you for your patient responses. I don’t know any other trainers that think as clearly or as deeply about the subject of horsemanship as you do. I hope other people appreciate your knowledge and the effort you put into helping other people as much as I do. I am making it one of my life goals to travel to the east and attend one of your clinics.

Best regards

Rhonda


Thank you Rhonda for your kind words and I am very glad that you feel the web site helps you in your horsemanship. I do hope you visit one day whether or not you participate in a clinic. Perhaps Michele and I might get to WA for a clinic someday in the future.

It’s interesting that you ask about respect while you were thinking about obedience because I think many people equate disobedience with disrespect. They see respect and obedience as the same thing – which I don’t believe is true.

I wrote about respect on the page about Myths and misconceptions in the horse industry – which you can read if you click here.

The problem that I see with the concept of respect is that it infers there is also such a thing as a horse’s disrespect. I don’t believe horses disrespect because disrespect is personal. A horse does what he does because he feels the need to do it. He does not behave in contradiction to what we want because he has a personal gripe with us. It’s not about us. And if it’s not about us, how can it be disrespectful? I think respect and disrespect are human terms to describe human behaviour that has no relevance to how horses think and behave.

I know there is an almost universal acceptance of the notion of respect and disrespect among horse trainers. So most people would not agree with me (so what else is new??). But until somebody shows me a horse whose behaviour is motivated by either his desire to get even with me or to please me, I’ll stick to having serious doubts about whether horses really can respect or disrespect people.

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Yesterday I visited a friend at the local pony club. Her youngest daughter was competing in dressage and jumping. I hadn't seen my friend for a few years and it was great to catch up and see the kids again. I watched lots of kids riding around and noticed that many of them were having a ball. But I also saw how serious some of the competitors and some parents were about the day. For a long time I have been critical of the sort of horsemanship and riding that is taught at pony club. But yesterday I saw both the very best reasons for its existence and the worse reasons. I guess that's how it will always be. But I had fun visiting with my friend and her daughters and none of us should forget that it is all about me!

I was checking the statistics for this web site today and something really interesting caught my eye. The most number of hits are shared by Australia and the US, but third on the list for the last few months is the Russian Federation. This surprised me, because I don't know anybody in Russia. I then wondered how some of the things I write come across when translated into Russian using an internet translation filter. Anyway, it would be great if anyone from Russia would write and tell me about horsemanship in their country. It's very interesting to know that people from Russia, Japan, Latvia, Portugal, UK, Malaysia, Israel, Norway and many others are reading this site. Welcome everyone and please feel free to write and tell me about horses and horsemanship in your country or just ask a question.


Working With Prince

Hello Ross and Michele,

Missing out on lesson day has made me feel like I've missed on my monthly fix of knowledge. I haven't booked this month either because my progress has been quite slow with prince and even slower with Nicky. We have had our property for five winters now and I have never experienced a winter like it infact we have just found that we have a natural spring which is now flowing through two paddocks. The mud feels like it is upto my knees and the poor horses are feeling it more. Doesn't matter where I shift them they just seem to destroy the paddock. Well enough of the winge I do have a question, I took prince into our backyard today  that and the round yard at our neighbours are the only places that are not bogged. I have been trying to get him soft with his Hq yields and this had been difficult as he has been distracted ever since I shifted him into a four acre paddock(that's another question).just want to make sure I am not drilling him I know this is hard as you are not present but him going round and round is not good enough by now I hope I should trust that he knows he has to soften from the head and not brace before I give with the lead. My question is when I first started the smallest try was ok but by now he should be giving abit more?
Second question would you say that most breakers work on the left side only? I find that when I work him on the left he is a ball of worry and on the right he tries that bit more with less worry. It seems like whatever was done with him on the left caused so much trauma that there are moments he goes into auto pilot. he will either rush through what I ask or get frustrated and try and run me over.
Third question he has become more difficult to work with since I put him in the big paddock with Nicky plus he displays a fair bit of stallion behaviour and is driving her insane. I seperated them tonight but do u think they would sort it out and do large paddocks create a different horse ?

Irena


I know what you mean about the mud, but you have to expect it living in southern Victoria in winter.

I'll do my best to answer your questions, but there is a lot of missing information for me to be definitive with my responses.

If you have been consistently working with Prince, I would expect his hq yields to have improved. But it is very much dependent on the quality with which you are asking. If his work is better in his old paddock, but falls apart in his new paddock then I'd be inclined to be a bit more demanding on him because you are probably dealing with a distracted mind rather than asking for something that is confusing or worrying for him. You need to ensure you get a stronger focus on you rather than everything else. However, if his hq yields are just as bad in his old paddock as his new paddock, then my first thought is that you are not being clear enough for him. There is something about the way you are asking for the hq yield that is causing Prince to be bothered or at the very least you are failing to clear up any worry he does have. You should want his responses to be better - not perfect - but better each time you work with him.

In regard to your second question, all horses prefer one side or the other. In your case, Prince probably does feel better when you work on the side that he has had less work. From what you had said in the past, Prince has had a pretty hard life and it would not be surprising that he is more worried on the side he is more familiar with.

In my experience, larger paddocks don't make much difference in horse behaviour. But putting a mare and a gelding together can lead to behaviours you don't normally see. I suspect that the stallion-like behaviour you see from Prince is in reality dominance behaviour. I've seen many geldings behave like stallions around mares and it's always dominance and never sexual (even to the point where they will mount and penetrate a mare). My guess is that Prince is enamoured with Nicky and sees her as part of his herd. When you try to work with Prince he becomes very distracted because he is constantly trying to keep tabs on his herd (Nicky) and you keep getting in his way. Without seeing the situation for myself I can only guess about the causes of the behaviour and you'll have to watch closer and think harder to know if I am right or not.


Obedience

Dear Ross,

Thank you for your detailed explanation to my question about the most important element of training. You made your thoughts very clear and it made a great deal of sense. But I will think further on it before making up my own mind.

In the mean time I was wondering about what you think regarding obedience in training. I have been reading XXXXXX books and feel his main message is that horses need to be taught complete obedience to the aids. I have not yet attended his clinics or had a chance to speak with him about his philosophy, so I don't wish to misrepresent him. However, the idea of obedience seems pervasive in everything he writes and on the one occasion I saw him present his work at Equitana. Do you agree or not with XXXXX?

Again, many thanks for your opinion.

Rhonda


I am very glad you are going to think further on the ideas I presented about focus. Anything that stimulates horse people to think about what they do and believe is fantastic. I love the fact that you are thinking about the same questions that Michele and I think about all the time. It's a shame you didn't meet Harry Whitney when he was here because he has some very insightful ideas about the same topics that interest you.

For obvious reasons, I don't want to discuss my views of XXXXX work and prefer to talk in generalizations.

I do agree that the trainer you mention does put a lot of emphasis on teaching a horse to be highly obedient, even when a horse's survival instinct tells him to disobey the rider.

My own view is that the only time when you can expect complete obedience is when dealing with a machine (like a car) or a slave. But since slavery is outlawed in this country and a horse is clearly not a machine, it seems ridiculous to expect a horse to show complete obedience. Horses have a strong sense of their own safety and comfort. It's how they are built. It's a large part of what makes them successful at being horses.

But added to that is that horses have an incredible capacity for submission. We can make them almost do anything. We can even make them disobey their natural instinct for survival. I've seen horses trained to carry lions on their backs - something that every nerve cell in a horse's body must be screaming out to disobey. But does that mean that just because we can make them do that, that we should?

Personally, I want my horse to be a horse. They are so amazing as they are that I want to preserve what they are instead of take some element of their nature away. To me, that means that I don't want or expect unquestioning obedience. If my horse does something that I ask I want him to do so because he feels okay about it and not because I have trained him not to care if he lives or dies. If he is worried or feels in jeopardy I want to know about it and expect him to act accordingly. I will do my best to help him feel that he is not going to die, but I will not train him to not care if he dies or is in jeopardy.

I believe that the trainer you mentioned probably feels the same as I do, except he does very much feel that training is largely a mechanical process rather than a mental one. But to me obedience is a lot like control and trust - it is something that a horse gives you and not something that you impose on a horse. He gives it to you because he is trained to believe it is okay and he will not die. However, if that changes and he does feel threatened, then I reckon he has every right to jack up and throw a tantrum. It's my job to prove to him that going along with my idea is not only a okay, but a good idea - and the other part of that contract is that I promise never to betray that trust and obedience.

I hope that answers your question and gives you more fodder for thought.

The #%$ Horse Wouldn’t Jump!

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The Most Important Element of Horse Training

Dear Ross,

We have never met, but I have been reading your web site for a several months. I think I have read every word several times. I have been interested in natural horsemanship ever since Pat Parelli first came to Australia. Since then I have read Tom Dorrance, Bill Dorrance, Ray Hunt, John Lyons, Buck Brannaman, Martin Black and many others. I have attended clinics by Ray Hunt, Buck Brannaman, Leslie Desmond to name a few and I’m sorry I missed seeing Harry Whitney when he was here. I consider myself a serious student of horsemanship.

In my studies I have read that different trainers have different opinions on what is the basis of good horsemanship. Ray Hunt says it is about connecting the feet. Andrew McLean says it is about obedience to the aids. Tom Dorrance mentions the spirit of the horse. Franz Maringer discusses relaxation as the most important aspect of training. In your work you talk about the horse’s thought.

Do you think everybody is right or everybody is wrong or somewhere in between? I am intensely interested in understanding the essential elements of good training because I think it is where most horse people (including myself) go wrong. The more advanced stuff is easy. But establishing good basics is really hard.

I am very anxious to hear your thoughts.

Best Regards

Rhonda


I agree with you that establishing good basics is hard. There is no doubt that most of us are impatient to move onto higher education with our horses and we only get the basics “good enough” before going to the next step. But “good enough” will not get you very far. The more advanced the training level the more important that we get the basics even better. I have said many many times to clients and students that you never leave the basics behind. As your horse progresses you keep refining the basics in parallel with the more advance work. To paraphrase Franz Maringer “all the problems at the higher levels are the result of problems in what came before.”

Of course, the basics contain elements of all the things you mention that other trainers have referred. But in my view the most essential element and the hardest one to establish is focus.

A horse’s attention is the pre-requisite for everything we do with a horse. It’s hard to teach a student who is looking out the window.

But attention is a multi faceted feature of training. It’s hard to establish focus in training because so many factors affect it. And even more difficult is the fact that most people don’t know what it is or recognize when they have it or don’t have it. The majority of people think their horse is paying attention if the horse is doing what he is told. But this is not necessarily true. Horses have a tremendous capacity to perform learned routines without be attentive. Like driving to work each day and yet not remembering how you got there.

When I work with a horse and he has learned to be responsive and soft, it is only that way when he is focusing on the communication between the two of us. The times he is not soft and shows resistance are the times he is distracted and his focus is drawn elsewhere. The moment he brings his mind back to me we have established softness again. But I am always working on keeping his mind with me. In the beginning it is often momentary and fleeting. But as he progresses he is able to keep his mind on me for longer and give me even more focus. It’s a constant part of his training for the rest of his days and goes hand in hand with his progress as a soft, responsive and educated horse.

A horse’s attentiveness is part of what I talk about when I refer to a horse’s thought. If he is thinking about something else it is hard to direct his thought in order to execute change in what he is doing. Every time I ask for something in a horse that is not paying attention I am interrupting his thoughts – getting in the way of his thoughts. But if he is listening to me there is no interruption - he is right there waiting, listening for what I might ask next.

There are different reasons why it is hard to get a horse’s focus and keep it. Partly, it is their nature to be watching the world, constantly scanning their surrounds for any danger. Then when we do get their attention it is because we have presented ourselves in a way that threatens them. They are glued on us, but with fear rather than interest. This causes just as many problems as if they paid no attention to us.

Sometimes we may not put a life threatening fear into them that evokes their survival mechanism, but we fail to make them feel okay too. This failure to help them feel okay about the work can often cause a horse to deliberately shut us out. He chooses to mentally tune us out because it does not feel good to him to pay attention. For example, some horses will refuse to look at their owners. They can’t check in with the human and still feel okay, so they try to shut them out. Yet the horse is obedient and relatively safe. This is a lot more common than most people realise.

Anyway, in my view attentiveness is the most important element of good horsemanship because it is in everything we do with a horse – everything! It’s can’t be good if a horse is not paying attention. Unfortunately, it is also one of the hardest aspects of a relationship with a horse to establish well – and you are always working on it – forever.

Of course, maybe in 5 years time I will change my mind when I work out there are even more important elements of good training. Ray Hunt said, “that the last thing you learn is the first thing you need to know.” If it's true, that's a bugger.

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I came off a horse today for the first time in a few years. It was just an accident, but I was lucky to escape unhurt except for a wrenched back. I was trotting a breaker around the jump paddock when he tripped on a clod of dirt. He went down and down and down. I thought he was going to recover, but he didn't. He dropped on his left shoulder and when I felt he was about to roll I bailed out of the saddle but didn't get quite enough distance to avoid him rolling on my legs. Luckily he stopped before rolling on my pelvis, but I couldn't get free until he got up again. He was fine and shook himself. I got on again to make sure he was okay. But after I got off I could feel I had wrenched my back when I dived out of the saddle. But a hot bath, a single malt Scotch and a relaxing back massage from Michele should fix me up for tomorrow.

The Videos

I've had a few responses regarding the video clips I put up a couple of days ago. I hope you guys found them interesting and if there is enough interest I would enjoy doing it again sometime. If any of you have links to video clips that you think would be interesting to critique, send them to me and I'll post them if they are appropriate.

Here are some excepts from readers with their thoughts on the videos:

I thought both of the trainers used too much pressure. At least the second guy got his horse better. Then first guy used a horse that was half asleep, so it was hard to know if his horse improved or not....

....I was very interested to check out your two Youtubes on the trainers and teaching their horses to stay still whilst being mounted.  One of the things that most horse trainers espouse to is that horses are to be relaxed and soft in what we ask them to do.  One of the fundamental aims in Dressage is to have the horse achieve “Losgelassenheit”, total relaxation and unrestrained movement of all joints.  This can only come about form a horse that is “mentally Losgelassenheit” – but too often dressage trainers look for the physical “bluff relaxation” (short term) rather than the mental relaxation (longer term) and wonder why their horses eventually break down!!??  Both the trainers in the Youtube videos seem to me to be regarding the horses as mechanical beings rather than creatures that have senses and feelings.  Why aren’t they stopping and making sure their horses are comfortable with the first step rather than going onto the next thing so quickly?  Why don’t dressage riders get their horses to be comfortable with basic dressage anywhere anytime before they go onto extended paces, collection, flying changes ect? I think for the guys in the mounting youtube it’s about “showing off” (getting the job done to impress) and for the Dressage riders it’s about the competition....

I saw the videos albeit interuptis due to connection speeds, but at least the second bloke rewarded his horse with a rub after he worked through and got a change. Although when mounted he did let it walk off when he was adjusting stuff....

Thanks for the youtube challenge! In the first clip, the horse looks more relaxed and at ease with just standing. The horse seems to be content with his ears on Clinton while licking and chewing. The horse’s head is neutral and doesn’t pop up with Clinton’s approach. When asked to move aggressively, he braces a bit but coming back to a standstill relaxes and waits. The horse looks pretty content and more involved in the activity than in clip number two. I like that Clinton gives him a loose rein and suggests that the horse can make a choice. Clinton talks about engaging the horses mind in this training activity, however it looks a little like wearing him down with the multiple repetitions.

In the second clip, the trainer seems to move forward when the horse doesn’t appear ready for the next step. I don’t see the horse content to stand before attempting to mount. The horse seems fidgety and uneasy, not prepared. The guy gets on anyway and while preparing himself the horseh walks on then he pulls back on the reins just like he said the horse would expect him to. He is wearing these giant spurs on a horse that he says has too much go in him. When he asks the horse to go, head pops up and the horse doesn’t appear to feel good nor prepared for the next step. It is almost as if he asking the horse to be uncomfortable so that he can prove the point of getting some sort of change, even if the horse is not participating. The trainer’s leg seems tense and tight while he is all about control with the rein. I don’t recall ever seeing this horse relax his head or lick and chew. It looks like the horse is not allowed to excel in the little things before being asked to move on. The horse is pushed right on, feeling anxious and uneasy throughout the entire performance. Perhaps the horse relaxes when the guy finally gets off!...

For my money, neither of the clips were brilliant. In both cases I thought the trainers used too much pressure. But Richard Winters began with a horse that was quite troubled and by using hindquarter disengagements he was able to get both a physical emotional softening of the horse. He would bend the horse until it made a change for the better and then release the rein and allow the horse to decide what it wanted to do. Clinton Anderson did no such thing. He began with a quiet - almost shut down horse. He backed it up with too much pressure and caused the horse to become worried and resistant. Notice the head high and hollow back posture during the backing. Also notice how the horse back in a curve rather than straight. These are signs of a brace in the horse. when he stopped asking it to back up the horse was still worried and still braced. He did not wait until the horse softened. So the horse did not make a change for the better.

In summary, Richard Winters began with a braced and worried horse and worked it in a way that caused the horse to soften both mentally and physically. On the other hand, Clinton Anderson began with a sleepy horses and put a worry and brace in the horse thought how he backed it up. The horse did not feel any better until Clinton left him alone.

Well that's my 2c worth anyway.

Pawing In The Float

Hi Ross,

I have a question for you in the meantime.  Lili has started a pawing problem when we float.  It started when I moved her to a different agistment centre and is progressively getting worse.  I realise this is a fear/anxiety issue so I’m not sure whether I just ignore it and hope she gains more confidence or try address the issue somehow.  According to some training articles I have read (by another trainer) it is a leading problem which I have to totally disagree with.  Her leading is fine, and something I always work on.  I can back her out of the float 1 step at a time and load her even though I know she is not that comfortable going in.  The pawing starts as soon as she is tied up with the tailgate closed and within 10mins she has worked up quite a sweat. Usually she stops 5-10mins after we start driving but lately the pawing can stop/start a few times during a trip.  She has the divider pushed across to one side and has plenty of room, a nice bag of lucerne hay (which s!
he never really touches or she just rips it out on to the floor), plenty of ventilation, I have tried the back cover up and down.  I also do short trips 10mins up the road and back, and still she will still come off quite wet. 
  Is this something that may develop into a habit or diminish as she develops more confidence in your opinion?

An update (as I started writing this a few weeks ago)
Lately the sweating has stopped but the pawing is still a big issue.  It happens as soon as she goes on the float but not when I’m at the end of a trip, she will usually stand quietly until I bring her off BUT she paws the ground when tied to the side of the float or tied in any unusual place without the company of other horses.

Cheers
Tania

The problem with the pawing is a difficult one. I'm not sure I have an answer for you. It is clear that Lili doesn't like standing in the float. I'd like to know if she exhibits the same behaviour if you tie her to a rail and leave her. I'm trying to work out if it is just impatience with being confined or it specifically about the float. Knowing what I can remember about her I wouldn't be surprised if she is expressing her impatience. But equally she can be a stress head so the problem may more closely relate to the actual floating.

If it is purely an impatience thing, it should improve with experience - just do more floating, tying up, taking her to places. If the problem stems from her anxiety about being floated, it will probably get worse if something does not change.

I agree that it is probably not related to a leading problem with Lili. But perhaps in the float she becomes stuck and freezes. This can  happen with horses that are worried. They freeze up and can't move their feet to balance in a way that make them feel more secure. This eventually can lead to severe pawing, sweating and even scrambling. Apart from the pawing, how much does she move around in the float? Can she swing her hq to the left and right? As an experiment, put her in the float and drive slowly around the paddock with her untied. How much does she move around? Which way does she want to face? You can even repeat the experiment, but load her facing backwards and drive around the paddock again. Is there a difference? Make sure you remove the divider and not just move it to one side.

If she does freeze in the float, you can get in the back with her while the float is stationary and try to yield her hq to the left and then to the right and then left again. Ask her to step forward then backwards. The ask her shoulder to go to the left and then to the right. Keep doing all these things until she can do them easily and calmly - ie, you have softness in her. Then repeat the process with somebody driving you around the paddock while you free up her mind and feet. When that is okay, you can see how she goes without you in the float.

If the problem is not related to her freezing her feet, then you might reinforce your float floor or buy a truck or ride her to all your events.

Thanks for the quick reply regarding the pawing.  I think it is more impatience related as she does do the same think when tied up outside the float or other tie up areas when I take her out and about.  I will try some of the other ideas you have suggested if it gets any worse but it has been getting a smidge better.  I'll wait until she puts a hole through the float floor before I upgrade to a truck, which wont be that long, she isnt dainty about anything she does.
 
Cheers
Tania


Reconnecting With A Horse

Hi Ross and Michele,

I’m needing to re-connect with Miss P. Have noticed something in the last month.
 
I moved Pru into a big 5 acre paddock to keep her out of the mud, and she is now right next to the other two girls. I have found more progressively, that she doesn’t come up to the gate any more when I call her – I have to go get her. She also is not overly excited when I bring her food in – she just ambles up or alternatively doesn’t come up at all. When I do take her out to do something, she is VERY hard to get her focus – she’s always looking for the other 2 girls. I don’t seem to be making a difference in getting her attention any more.
 
I did move her to a paddock further away from the girls (but she could still see them) , and all she did was graze up near the fence and keep looking and calling out for them when she couldn’t see them. In the past I have tried to keep a paddock between her and the other horses, and she’s never had a problem.
 
I also noticed that she doesn’t call/whinny to me any more…usually when she’s in the yard in front of the house she always whinny’s at me when I come out or she sees me……lately nothing.
 
It bothers me that I have missed something major, and have caused this anxst……I feel like I have been replaced as the “nice place” by the other two horses. Also I should mention, that I have to treat her Mud fever 2 x day, and I’m sure that this may have something to do with the whole situation.
 
Any ideas??
 
Des
I wouldn't get too worried about losing your lustre where Pru is concerned if you are treating her every day for mud fever and she hates the treatment. When we put horses through a rough time for whatever reason or good intentions, it's not likely they are going to want to be around us. After the treatment is over you may have some re-building to do, but it won't take much to win her over again since you were making such good headway with her before the mud fever.


An Enthusiastic Supporter

In between visits to Melbourne, work, taxiing the boys around and general business I make sure I get onto the internet occasionally to check out your website and read your blog which I absolutely love reading!  I think it’s great that you cater for all “knowledge levels” going from a very interesting discussion on Lateral Flexion and Hind Quarter Disengagement to how best to catch a horse.  I love the fact that you don’t just say what people want to hear (unlike many horse trainers) but think about everything you say and do with horses (and teach to people) carefully so that the outcome is what is best for the horse first and foremost. I love how you have NOT become the “show off” horse trainer like many of the others nor packaged your gift with horses into “method” training.  That is the only reason why you and Michele are not as “big” as some of the well know trainers – you don’t compromise your work with (and welfare of!) horses and their owners to “wow” the crowd or do the “quick fix” to impress.  I love the way you include horse management issues such as the rugging of horses – I too found much  research into the rugging of horses agreeing with exactly what you stated (in my teaching of Certificate II in Equine Industry) and despair how often I see horses with canvas rugs on a 20 degrees Celcius day!!??) I love the way you take each horse on as an individual and explain in detail why you do what you do with each individual horse.  I love how you always encourage questions and queries from people on what you do with horses and why you do it.  I love how you are not a “know-it-all” and freely admit that training horses is a life long learning experience.  I love how you pop into your blog little interesting bits and pieces.  For example, I cannot begin to tell you how much fun we have had showing friends and family the “Sound of Music at the train station” Youtube and the “Roller-blading Horse Jumping” - I have finally found something that myself and the boys can do together and both enjoy!! – actually Mitchell immediately wanted me to saddle up Bluebell, attached the long reins, get on his rollerblades and get out there to have a go!.  Actually, Bluebell would need a little more training to get to the stage where SHE would be happy towing Mitchell around on a pair of rollerblades!!  Speaking of the horse being “happy” about what we do with them…..
 
Finally, I love the way you DO get us to think about what we do with our horses and why we do it and most of all get us to question how comfortable our horse is about it all.
 
Keep up the great work Ross and Michele and I hope to do a clinic again sooner than later!!
 
Kathy

Thanks for all the superlatives you have heaped on Michele and I. I'm not sure we see it in the same way, but it's very nice to be appreciated for what we do. I hope you know how much we appreciate your support over the years and the work you have put into organizing clinics for us. I don't know that we will ever be able to give back to you as much as you have put in. Thanks for everything Kathy and our love to the family.

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Soft Changes

Due to my near death experience from contracting a series of deadly diseases that Michele dismissively put down to having a cold, I had a couple of days at home lately. It gave me the chance to catch up on some training videos on YouTube. I like to see what's out there and to check up on some of the trainers that I don't get to see in person. The thing that most struck me in the 30 or more clips of professional and non professional trainers that I watched is that not one of them EVER (I mean EVER!!!) asked for mental softness in their horses. I saw a lot of mechanical lightness where the horses responded with feather touch aids. I saw a lot of snappy responses from horses where there was a lot of energy put into how they responded. I saw a lot of politeness and a lot of obedience. But I never saw any mental softness. I didn't once see a horse respond in a way that indicated to me they were focused and feeling okay about what they were being asked to do. But I did see trainer after trainer happy with the fact that their horse did what he was asked to do with his feet. However, none seemed concerned whether the horse was soft and mellow in the way he felt. The importance was placed on that the horse did what he was told.

I am putting up 2 video clips for you to compare. They are both on YouTube and put up by very well known trainers in America. I want you to compare the clips. They both are talking about teaching a horse to stand still while being mounted. In my view, neither of them are brilliant and I have reservations about both clips, but one of the trainers is much more aware than the other when his horse makes a softer change. I'd like you guys to watch them and e-mail me your thoughts. It's not a test, but I want you to watch, observe and think about what is happening. It might help you with your own level of awareness when you are working your horse.

I'll talk about the clips in my next Soap Box entry. But for now, I'd really appreciate your input. BTW, sorry that the videos are clipped on the right side, but it made it easier to fit on the page and you don't lose any of the impact of the videos.

Unfinished Story

AaaaHhhh!!!!!! you can't finish a story like that, I can't possibly wait till next month for some insight. Can we have a story a week, maybe a fortnight at the longest?

Irena

If you knew how tortuous it is for me to write a story, you'd appreciate what a mammoth effort it is to do one each month. I neither find writing stories easy or fun.

Satan's story will go on for some time. That horse was with me for a long time and never once were things easy or simple. The purpose of writing about him is to give people an insight into how the principles that Michele and I try to incorporate into our training and teaching can be used and adjusted in so many different ways. Our principles never change, but our practices change all the time.

I hope I have made you curious enough to keep reading each month and maybe find things in the stories that can help you better understand your own horses.

A Horse Rubbing On You

Hi Ross and Michele,

We have been going well, I think? Doing lots of ground work and a bit of riding.

A couple of questions for you (if you don’t have time, I can wait till the lesson weekend).

Firstly, Anduin is quite an itchy horse, and I often scratch him, he often starts to dictate where to scratch! Which I find amusing (but after having a lesson with you both) is he being dominant again? I have stopped doing it as well as hand feeding him, I have been throwing a carrot on the ground, just one broken in half per visit.

For the most part I am able to make his feet move (not mine), but I still have trouble with him being late to follow when I walk off, so I will need some more help there – he comes with me, but just not quick enough, I need to sharpen it up a bit.

I read your blog in June about why people ride the horses they do. I can’t answer for everyone else (and I know there are a lot of people out there), but I can answer for myself.

To start with, I think he is a really nice horse, I know I have messed him up a lot, and I figure I owe it to him to try and make his life easier. When we where at our worst and I used to feel sick every time I got on him, I thought there was nobody who would take on such a troubled horse or they would approach him with the “I’ll just make him do it” attitude, which I knew wouldn’t work with him, and I think he could of been a very dangerous horse in that situation – which is unfair to the horse.

Am I the right owner for him? – probably not, but I don’t want to sell him into unknown hands, he is too nice for that.

Can I find him a good home – I am not sure, but I can try to create a better working partnership together while I decide, who knows, with the work we are doing with you both, I might not have to find him a home.

For myself, an animal is for life. I take on that commitment and stick to it (if possible). I have a 31 year palomino, that I have had since I was 15, he was my pony club horse, my event horse (we even managed to do a 3DE), and then in his ‘retiring’ years, he was a whip horse, out the front with the hounds. He has been a great buddy. He is still rugged, fed and maintained and will continue to get the royal treatment till he is no longer comfortable.

I too, cannot understand how people discard them so easily – but that is what makes us all different I guess.

Enough ramblings.

Regards Cathy


The issue with the rubbing on you and the hand treating needs to be understood in the light of how these affect your horse's attitude to you. Neither of these things are wrong in themselves. But most people can't offer their horse a treat without turning their horse into thinking that the person is nothing more than a vending machine. This has happened to an extent with your horse. There are ways of hand treating a horse without doing this, but until you learn how to keep your horse's perception of you less like a carrot dispenser and more like a benevolent leader you are better off throwing the carrots on the ground rather than have him look to your to give them.

With the scratching thing, again there is nothing wrong with rubbing on your horse and there is nothing wrong with him showing where he would most like to be scratched. But it has to be done in a way that horse does not begin to view you as a scratching post for his enjoyment. If I rub my horse on her forehead and she maneuvers herself in a position to present her bum to me because that's where she is most itchy, there is nothing wrong with that. But remember I offered her to scratch first. However, if my horse walks up to me in the paddock and starts demanding I scratch her here and there, then she and I will have a discussion about the proper etiquette. I promise my horses that I will do my best to consider their physical and emotional needs in everything I do with them and part of that promise involves being absolutely clear to my horses what my role is in this relationship. That means they won't be confused about whether I am a kind leader or a scratching post or a carrot dispenser - it will be clear and the lack of confusion will be comforting to them.

It's good you have thought about why you have horses and been as honest as any of us can be about those reasons. We all have different reasons for being horse owners, but we aren't always honest with ourselves about them.

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It's quite amazing that we have entered the second half of the year. I don't know how it happened so fast!

I should tell you upfront that this may be the last entry of the Soap Box. I am sick and I don't know if I will make it through the next 24 hrs. I have double pneumonia, pleurisy, Ebola virus, sarcoidosis and I am menopausal. It's touch and go if I will make it through the night. Michele says I have a cold, but she has a stone heart and has no idea how much I suffer. I need my mummy!

I have put up a new story on the Story page. It is the first of a series about my experiences with one particular horse. Walt and Amos do not make an appearance in these articles, but their philosophy and approach to horsemanship is present in every word. The star of the stories is a horse that I met many years ago and one that stands out in my mind as the most troubled yet the most rewarding horse I have every had the privilege to work with. I can't tell you how much I learned from this horse and how much he transformed my thinking and inventiveness as a trainer. I hope to be able to give you some of what I feel I learned during my time with him. The stories are a series and I will try to keep them in order of time because I think it is important to be aware of how this horse evolved during the training process. I may archive each story at the end of the month so that people who missed reading previous stories can refer back to them. I hope you enjoy them and I hope they give you something to think about. Let me know your thoughts and if you have any questions about the horse or what I did or didn't do, I'd be happy to discuss them in more detail.


Something To Think About

"Something to think about it". It's a phrase I use a lot.

As most of you probably already know, I am very much at ease at expressing my opinion on things related to horses and training. There is not much I don't have a view about and I take great care to give serious consideration to why I hold those views. Being a trained scientist it is important to me that the thing I believe and the things I do with horses have a rational basis. It does not mean I am right, but it does mean that if you are to disagree with me and want to convince me of your point of view, it had better have a better rational basis than my own opinion. Harry has often quoted his friend Jorge as saying "I am may not be right, but I am certain." I feel that applies to me to a large extent.

So what am I rabbit-ing on about? Well, it's about having an opinion and where they come from. I get to hear many different views on many different subjects about horses and training. People are always telling me about how they fixed a problem or why they feed a certain supplement or what Nancy Horseowner should do about her bucking horse or why they don't shoe their horse. It's great that the training and welfare of horses is important enough to people for them to have strong opinions. We all know that nobody has a stronger opinion than a horse person. But what I do find to be so common is that many opinions that people have, are not based on anything substantial. Let me give just a couple of really common examples.

1. Rugging

The weather has turned cold and us horse owners are wearing jackets. Obviously our horses must be equally cold and we should buy the latest thermal protection for them. WRONG!!!

It has been established by measuring basal metabolic rate in horses that the comfort temperature for a horse is around 0 to 5 degrees C air temperature. If it's warmer than that and you rug them you are over heating them.

2. When a horse is leaning on the reins we need a harsher bit

Training a horse to be responsive to the reins is about training his mind. Harsher bit are harsher because they induce pain. Pain makes horses fearful and has no place in good horsemanship.

Opinions are great, but they should be derived by carefully consideration. So often the opinions we hold come from somebody else who we consider has more knowledge that us, like our instructor or a book or a trainer. Our opinions are not even ours.

I never have a problem with anybody who disagrees with me. Michele and I disagree occasionally on some aspects of training. I don't always agree with Harry Whitney, despite the fact that he is the best trainer I have seen. Yet, I respect both Michele and Harry's opinions because I know they have given great thought to having those opinions.

The ideas I discuss in these pages are not gospel or decreed from some higher power as being the truth. But they are designed to give you something to think about. That's my main hope for both the stories and the soap box - that you have something to think about. If you do think about it and decide to agree or disagree with me I don't care. But the fact that you are thinking about stuff in a different way is very important to me.

There is a lot information in the horse world that is unquestioned and taken for granted as being fact. Read some of those on the pages called Myths. Don't take anything as being truthful until it has passed your own personal test of if it's rational or not. Question everything and everybody. None of us know more than a horse and they tend to leave a lot of what they have to say up to our interpretation - which in my opinion is not good enough.


Touching Bases

Dear Michele and Ross,

Just touching base... 

You'll probably be happy to hear that I've ridden the palomino princess (Bella) about seven times in the past week since we saw you... and the in-between days we just mooch around and hang out together (martini's anyone?) I've taken to calling her a princess mostly because she continues to exhibit a particular aversion to working in slushy mud, of which we have quite a bit now. Bella looks at me as if to say "you've got to be kidding" when I ask her to walk through the mud wallows, but alas she does walk through if I insist. I was thinking that maybe I should buy her some pink gumboots? And a matching umbrella?

I think we're almost back to the point where we left off (immediately upon bringing her home the first time). Baby steps (for both of us) but the last few rides have been good. Bella's feeling a lot less 'stuck' and I think I'm a lot less mentally 'stuck' too. Haven't graduated to riding out and about again yet (still in a paddock about three times the size of your arena), but that's okay.

Enjoying the challenge of finding all our tight spots... jumping up and down on the ground beside the saddle like a monkey was a problem for a few days, but now it's not. Saddling up has been good; and catching has been excellent (she catches herself, aside from tying the halter knot). Sometimes she starts to feel heavy on the reins, but I try to deal with it every time it comes up either on the ground or in the saddle. Float loading practice is still a bit crappy, but we'll get there. I attempt to do something different each time I spend time with Bel, perhaps one day she'll be okay with changes in routine.

Anyhow, we'll continue to muddle along and I'll make a concerted effort not to wreck her. Will drive down for another lesson in a month or two if you'll have us back.

Cheers,

Jackie

PS. Ross, I was thinking of sky diving on to my horse instead of using a helicopter or cherry picker. Do you think you could train a horse to stand still for that?

Thanks for the update. I am very glad to hear that you are putting in the time with Bella and keeping it low pressure. What Michele and I do is just get things kick started for people - the real work happens at home.

I think it would be relatively easy to teach Bella to stand still for you compared to teaching you to skydive with such pin point accuracy.

Keep us informed of your progress and I hope we see you before too long.


Clinic Format

If you do a clinic up here, would you consider doing a group format? I think some people feel they get more "value" for money, from a full day of access with their horse standing beside them,even if you don't concentrate fully on an individual problem as such. It was so nice to see Meg really sleepy!!!!
 
I am not sure if I am in favour of this or not but i think there was a sort of cameraderie- (spelling?) at XXXX clinic when in a group and you could practise what you saw while someone else was being helped out, or you could work on something else...AND the ask for help!
 
Also, for some people one on one is overwhelming and quite a negative experience (especially with an audience) even though they have some things pointed out. I guess there are all sorts of people and you cant please them all so why not just please the instructor!!
 
In XXXX's clinic he had his own horse which he demo'd alot of stuff on as well as using our horses too. (His only had two blocks of two weeks work)
 
Anyway, just getting you thinking.
 
Cheers,
amanda


With regard to clinic format there are a ton of people doing clinics with large group classes. You don't need us for that type of clinic. A clinic like that is best suited to people who are interested in teaching mechanical exercises. They are about giving people a list of exercises designed to transform their horse and melt away their problems.

Michele and I try to offer an alternative style to that. We take pride in talking about the little things and about how a horse feels and thinks. We feel this is what separates us from the majority of trainers and clinicians in this country. When trying to convey these concepts, I don't know how you help individuals if you are teaching a large(ish) group.

I understand that most people are more comfortable with being taught a series of exercises. I understand that many people are more comfortable being anonymous in a group. I understand that many people probably feel they get more out of a clinic where they are working with their horses all day in a large group. But if they are interested in what we have to teach, then I think that sort of clinic format would fail them. And if they want that type of clinic, then they really aren't interested as much in the small things as an instant panacea for all their horse problems. For those people, there are plenty of other clinicians who can fulfill their needs. But we want to help the minority who want to see life from their horse's point of view and use that understanding to build a better relationship and performance that takes into account the horse's needs as well as their own. We are not trying to cater to the masses, because the masses are never going to be interested in what we are trying to teach.

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