Ross' Soap Box
29 June '10
Riding After Your Horse Goes Home From A Trainer
I am breaking in a horse for a client who asked me a few days ago how much time should she be putting into her horse before she should take it to it's first competition. Well, of course the answer is like asking how long is a piece of string? So much depends on the quality of work rather than the quantity. But the question provoked some discussion between Michele and I. My very smart wife said something that I entirely agree with. Michele said that if she had a horse that was just started, she would want to spend the first 12 months or more just getting to know the horse. Every day she would get the horse out of the paddock and do something with it. It might only be a 5 or 10 min ride or no ride at all. She might lead it down the paddock from the 4 wheeler while she picked up manure. She might leave it tied up outside the arena or round yard while she worked other horses. She might just sit on it while she taught a lesson. The rides would not be particularly high pressure, but just to reinforce and improve the basics that the breaking in process began. She might jump on it bareback and ride to the letter box to check the mail or visit the neighbour.
I think the point is that in our job we see so many folks take their horses home and begin the "real" work of turning it into an "educated" horse. It's like there is a program and if the horse is not doing certain things by 6 months and other things by 12 months, then either the horse or the rider have failed and they belong in the slow learners group. They work on their canter leads or their perfect circles or their lateral work etc. Riding becomes a constant need to perfect something. This often means that riding becomes a job and being ridden becomes a job for the horse. I think this is far too much pressure for a lot of horse and rider combinations. It can lead to a pretty sour relationship.
Most people don't ride for a living and therefore most people don't need to have their horses ready for Olympic level competition in a hurry. Plenty of us have the luxury of taking our time with our horses and making riding low stress. That's not to say that you are not always working on improving something, but it's not necessary to be in the saddle for 45-60 mins every day trying to get something achieved. It's possible that just hanging around with your horse in dozens of different ways can go a lot further towards improving your relationship and performance.
Side Pull vs Bit For Mouthing
Dear Ross,
I was fascinated in what you said about the lady with the quarter horse that paced. I didn't know they could do that without being trained.
Iread today on Horseproblems web site that he says that sidepulls are not good for mouthing horses. He says they cause a horse to have a poor mouth. I know you use sidepulls and like them, so could you comment on what he says?
All the best
Pam
Well Pam, the last three times I commented on something that John put on his web site I got into trouble, so I need to be careful what I say.
As you would expect, I disagree with the view that side pulls cause poor mouths. I believe the outcome will always depend more on the operator than the equipment. I don't know if John has every mouthed a horse with a side pull, but I have done many with both side pulls and snaffle bits and I prefer to always begin mouthing with a side pull. That's not to say that it is a requirement to use a side pull to produce a good mouth on a horse. Many horses trained with a bit have excellent mouths. But like I say, it is really up to the skill of the trainer and not the head gear.
The advantage of a side pull over a snaffle is that while the horse is learning about the feel of the reins, it maybe necessary sometimes to firm up on the reins. A snaffle bit can cause pain to a horse, but a side pull (of the type we use) will never cause pain. This means there is less risk of making the horse afraid of the reins and more importantly it means that you are not relying on pain to control a horse. Control comes from a horse's understanding rather than relying on a bit to impose control. The bars of the mouth and the tongue are very sensitive and easily traumatized. When a horse is first started it's not hard to make a horse respond to the reins because he learns to be afraid of the pain that a bit can cause. I think this can be counter productive in the long run.
I have tried probably every method known to man to mouth horses, I don't choose the method I use flippantly, but with a lot of experience with alternative methods. I know John puts great faith in the Wilton method of mouthing and believes it gives him the best mouth possible on a horse. But equally I have great faith in how I approach mouthing with a side pull and over the years have enough excellent outcomes to be able to back up that view.
But in the end, as I have already said, it is the skill of the operator that will determine the quality of the result no matter what method is used.
Harry Whitney Visit
hi ross
i was wondering if harry is coming back next year. i came to watch him in january and was blown away by his brilliance with a horse. next time i would like to ride in his clinic if he is coming back. i need to save my money so i would like to know if you have plans for him to return to oz in the near future.
thanks
jude
I am glad you enjoyed watching Harry's clinic. At the moment there are no firms plans for Harry's return. But we did about it while he was here and again in a couple of recent phone calls. Michele and I would really like to get him back, but there are many factors that have to be taken into account. Michele and I are lucky in that we get to spend time with Harry just about every year in Arizona, but we would love to give as many people in Australia as possible the opportunity to ride with him too. As the year progresses we will decide one way or the other and i will let people know via this web site. Thanks for asking and I hope we can make it happen.
I am breaking in a horse for a client who asked me a few days ago how much time should she be putting into her horse before she should take it to it's first competition. Well, of course the answer is like asking how long is a piece of string? So much depends on the quality of work rather than the quantity. But the question provoked some discussion between Michele and I. My very smart wife said something that I entirely agree with. Michele said that if she had a horse that was just started, she would want to spend the first 12 months or more just getting to know the horse. Every day she would get the horse out of the paddock and do something with it. It might only be a 5 or 10 min ride or no ride at all. She might lead it down the paddock from the 4 wheeler while she picked up manure. She might leave it tied up outside the arena or round yard while she worked other horses. She might just sit on it while she taught a lesson. The rides would not be particularly high pressure, but just to reinforce and improve the basics that the breaking in process began. She might jump on it bareback and ride to the letter box to check the mail or visit the neighbour.
I think the point is that in our job we see so many folks take their horses home and begin the "real" work of turning it into an "educated" horse. It's like there is a program and if the horse is not doing certain things by 6 months and other things by 12 months, then either the horse or the rider have failed and they belong in the slow learners group. They work on their canter leads or their perfect circles or their lateral work etc. Riding becomes a constant need to perfect something. This often means that riding becomes a job and being ridden becomes a job for the horse. I think this is far too much pressure for a lot of horse and rider combinations. It can lead to a pretty sour relationship.
Most people don't ride for a living and therefore most people don't need to have their horses ready for Olympic level competition in a hurry. Plenty of us have the luxury of taking our time with our horses and making riding low stress. That's not to say that you are not always working on improving something, but it's not necessary to be in the saddle for 45-60 mins every day trying to get something achieved. It's possible that just hanging around with your horse in dozens of different ways can go a lot further towards improving your relationship and performance.
Side Pull vs Bit For Mouthing
Dear Ross,
I was fascinated in what you said about the lady with the quarter horse that paced. I didn't know they could do that without being trained.
Iread today on Horseproblems web site that he says that sidepulls are not good for mouthing horses. He says they cause a horse to have a poor mouth. I know you use sidepulls and like them, so could you comment on what he says?
All the best
Pam
Well Pam, the last three times I commented on something that John put on his web site I got into trouble, so I need to be careful what I say.
As you would expect, I disagree with the view that side pulls cause poor mouths. I believe the outcome will always depend more on the operator than the equipment. I don't know if John has every mouthed a horse with a side pull, but I have done many with both side pulls and snaffle bits and I prefer to always begin mouthing with a side pull. That's not to say that it is a requirement to use a side pull to produce a good mouth on a horse. Many horses trained with a bit have excellent mouths. But like I say, it is really up to the skill of the trainer and not the head gear.
The advantage of a side pull over a snaffle is that while the horse is learning about the feel of the reins, it maybe necessary sometimes to firm up on the reins. A snaffle bit can cause pain to a horse, but a side pull (of the type we use) will never cause pain. This means there is less risk of making the horse afraid of the reins and more importantly it means that you are not relying on pain to control a horse. Control comes from a horse's understanding rather than relying on a bit to impose control. The bars of the mouth and the tongue are very sensitive and easily traumatized. When a horse is first started it's not hard to make a horse respond to the reins because he learns to be afraid of the pain that a bit can cause. I think this can be counter productive in the long run.
I have tried probably every method known to man to mouth horses, I don't choose the method I use flippantly, but with a lot of experience with alternative methods. I know John puts great faith in the Wilton method of mouthing and believes it gives him the best mouth possible on a horse. But equally I have great faith in how I approach mouthing with a side pull and over the years have enough excellent outcomes to be able to back up that view.
But in the end, as I have already said, it is the skill of the operator that will determine the quality of the result no matter what method is used.
Harry Whitney Visit
hi ross
i was wondering if harry is coming back next year. i came to watch him in january and was blown away by his brilliance with a horse. next time i would like to ride in his clinic if he is coming back. i need to save my money so i would like to know if you have plans for him to return to oz in the near future.
thanks
jude
I am glad you enjoyed watching Harry's clinic. At the moment there are no firms plans for Harry's return. But we did about it while he was here and again in a couple of recent phone calls. Michele and I would really like to get him back, but there are many factors that have to be taken into account. Michele and I are lucky in that we get to spend time with Harry just about every year in Arizona, but we would love to give as many people in Australia as possible the opportunity to ride with him too. As the year progresses we will decide one way or the other and i will let people know via this web site. Thanks for asking and I hope we can make it happen.
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27 June '10
As you can see I have added a table in the sidebar for those that may want to check out previous Soap Box entries. The each box is a month and the brown colour indicates that there is an archived page for that month. Just click the box for the month you want to read.
A Quarter Horse That Paces
Hello Ross
I have been lurking through your web site and I am thrilled to have found it. You express so well the ideas that I have been finding through reading Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt and Martin Black. I particularly believe that your essays on a Horse's Thought and Not About the Feet should be compulsory reading for every horse person.
I ordered your book on Amazon and have just begun reading it. It's wonderful and I want to congratulate you for making some of the most difficult concepts of good horsemanship so easy to understand.
I am from Devon, England but moved to Germany about 5 years ago. I am interested in western riding which is becoming very big here. A few months ago I purchased a lovely Quarter Horse gelding from a western trainer in my region of southern Germany. He had only been broken in a month when I bought him and I have been riding him quite a lot during the warm weather we have been having. But he has a peculiar problem for a Quarter Horse in that I find that sometimes he paces rather than trots. I did not know Quarter Horses could pace, but he does it very well. I asked the trainer about it and he said he did it sometimes when he was being started, but he gradually stopped doing it. I've had a veterinarian examine him and there was no sign that there was a physical explanation for the pacing. He also said he had never seen a Quarter Horse that could pace.
If you have any explanation and suggestions for solving this problem I would be very appreciative. I look forward to your reply and continue to read your web site with enthusiasm.
Regards
Christina
Thank you for your very kind words and I am very glad you like the book.
It is not unusual to see a QH pace. All horses are capable of pacing. In fact, all horses are capable of being gaited. It's just that some horses are bred for the propensity to gait and then on top of that their training is directed at making them gait because they are prized for their gait rather than their pure walk, trot and canter.
I don't know your horse so I accept there is not a physical problem that is causing him to pace. If that's the case, then most likely the pacing is caused by tension. A pure pace is a 2 beat pattern, but many horses can get "pacey" without it being a pure pace. By "pacey" we mean their gait is somewhat lateral and the interval between footfalls is not even. For example a pure walk has 4 beats and the interval between each foot landing on the ground is evenly spaced. But a "pacey" walk will have the spacing between when each foot hits the ground uneven. It mostly looks like the interval between front and hind leg on the same side is relatively short.
In a 2 beat pace, the front and hind legs of left side hit the ground at the same time and the front and left of the right side hit the ground of the same side. This is different from a pure trot where the diagonal pairs land simultaneously instead of the lateral pairs. As I said, horses can be taught to do this and some horses come to it naturally. But in your case, I feel certain it is because of anxiety that your horse is carrying to cause tension in his body.
Usually, the pace would appear in between the transition of the pure gaits. That is, if you are asking for a trot your horse will pace before he hits the pure trot. It can happen in the downward transitions too in that coming from a trot to a walk may cause him to pace just as he makes the downward transition.
Without seeing your horse it is impossible to say where the worry is coming from to cause the problem. It may be already there at the walk or it could be happening because he is worried about transitioning to the trot. The most common factor that I see is a build up of anxiety when the horse is asked to hurry. The rider applies pressure on the horse to go faster or go up a transition and the horse tenses up leading to him becoming lateral in his trot. If this is the case with your horse, I suggest that when you ask for more from him and feel his tension elevate that you bring him back to a more relaxed speed. Work on having him relax and stretch in his work before asking him to trot. Don't demand the trot, but ask his walk to get bigger and bigger. If you feel him becoming more lateral - even at the walk - bring him down again and work on the relaxation. When you feel him relax, try again. But each time you sense his tension, take away the pressure and help him let go of his worry again. It normally won't take long before he increases his walk and stays relaxed until he finally tips over into a trot. When you feel the pure trot. rejoice and ask him to come down again after a short distance. If you try to make him maintain the trot for too long he will hit the pace again. If he doesn't find the trot, but goes straight to the pace, bring him down to a good walk and start again when he is relaxed. It may take some persistence on your part, but the secret is to maintain the relaxation in the transitions.
I couldn't find a video of a QH pacing, but I did find this video of a Paso Fino gaiting. The reason I have put it up is that you will see about 50sec into the video that the trainers harass the horse into going fast and all too often in these types of breeds the gait is induced by fear and tension. The horse is chased and chased and his gait is coming from flight. All gaited horses should be capable of pure walk, trot and canter as well as their gaited paces. But many of them can't because of the tension they carry. That tension comes about because of the sort of training seen in this YouTube clip.
Hello Ross
I have been lurking through your web site and I am thrilled to have found it. You express so well the ideas that I have been finding through reading Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt and Martin Black. I particularly believe that your essays on a Horse's Thought and Not About the Feet should be compulsory reading for every horse person.
I ordered your book on Amazon and have just begun reading it. It's wonderful and I want to congratulate you for making some of the most difficult concepts of good horsemanship so easy to understand.
I am from Devon, England but moved to Germany about 5 years ago. I am interested in western riding which is becoming very big here. A few months ago I purchased a lovely Quarter Horse gelding from a western trainer in my region of southern Germany. He had only been broken in a month when I bought him and I have been riding him quite a lot during the warm weather we have been having. But he has a peculiar problem for a Quarter Horse in that I find that sometimes he paces rather than trots. I did not know Quarter Horses could pace, but he does it very well. I asked the trainer about it and he said he did it sometimes when he was being started, but he gradually stopped doing it. I've had a veterinarian examine him and there was no sign that there was a physical explanation for the pacing. He also said he had never seen a Quarter Horse that could pace.
If you have any explanation and suggestions for solving this problem I would be very appreciative. I look forward to your reply and continue to read your web site with enthusiasm.
Regards
Christina
Thank you for your very kind words and I am very glad you like the book.
It is not unusual to see a QH pace. All horses are capable of pacing. In fact, all horses are capable of being gaited. It's just that some horses are bred for the propensity to gait and then on top of that their training is directed at making them gait because they are prized for their gait rather than their pure walk, trot and canter.
I don't know your horse so I accept there is not a physical problem that is causing him to pace. If that's the case, then most likely the pacing is caused by tension. A pure pace is a 2 beat pattern, but many horses can get "pacey" without it being a pure pace. By "pacey" we mean their gait is somewhat lateral and the interval between footfalls is not even. For example a pure walk has 4 beats and the interval between each foot landing on the ground is evenly spaced. But a "pacey" walk will have the spacing between when each foot hits the ground uneven. It mostly looks like the interval between front and hind leg on the same side is relatively short.
In a 2 beat pace, the front and hind legs of left side hit the ground at the same time and the front and left of the right side hit the ground of the same side. This is different from a pure trot where the diagonal pairs land simultaneously instead of the lateral pairs. As I said, horses can be taught to do this and some horses come to it naturally. But in your case, I feel certain it is because of anxiety that your horse is carrying to cause tension in his body.
Usually, the pace would appear in between the transition of the pure gaits. That is, if you are asking for a trot your horse will pace before he hits the pure trot. It can happen in the downward transitions too in that coming from a trot to a walk may cause him to pace just as he makes the downward transition.
Without seeing your horse it is impossible to say where the worry is coming from to cause the problem. It may be already there at the walk or it could be happening because he is worried about transitioning to the trot. The most common factor that I see is a build up of anxiety when the horse is asked to hurry. The rider applies pressure on the horse to go faster or go up a transition and the horse tenses up leading to him becoming lateral in his trot. If this is the case with your horse, I suggest that when you ask for more from him and feel his tension elevate that you bring him back to a more relaxed speed. Work on having him relax and stretch in his work before asking him to trot. Don't demand the trot, but ask his walk to get bigger and bigger. If you feel him becoming more lateral - even at the walk - bring him down again and work on the relaxation. When you feel him relax, try again. But each time you sense his tension, take away the pressure and help him let go of his worry again. It normally won't take long before he increases his walk and stays relaxed until he finally tips over into a trot. When you feel the pure trot. rejoice and ask him to come down again after a short distance. If you try to make him maintain the trot for too long he will hit the pace again. If he doesn't find the trot, but goes straight to the pace, bring him down to a good walk and start again when he is relaxed. It may take some persistence on your part, but the secret is to maintain the relaxation in the transitions.
I couldn't find a video of a QH pacing, but I did find this video of a Paso Fino gaiting. The reason I have put it up is that you will see about 50sec into the video that the trainers harass the horse into going fast and all too often in these types of breeds the gait is induced by fear and tension. The horse is chased and chased and his gait is coming from flight. All gaited horses should be capable of pure walk, trot and canter as well as their gaited paces. But many of them can't because of the tension they carry. That tension comes about because of the sort of training seen in this YouTube clip.
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23 June '10
Horse Scrambling In The Float
Hi Ross,
So sorry Tanya and I have had to cancel Wednesday with you and Michelle.
Both Tanya and I were so excited and looking forward to it.
I can’t come as, my horse Swagman yesterday went down in the float and has a lot of swelling in one leg and a few cuts and skin off.
Bloody hell, I’m really not sure what is going wrong and, just wondered if you could share any floating tips to help me out to get him floating well again.
Up until the last 3 times I have floated him, he has never scrambled or moved before. Not sure if all this anxiety stuff is now messing up his floating. I’m confused as he has had his best friend (our pony whom is so attached to) with him on 2 of the times he has scrambled. And, on this occasion going down in the float yesterday.
The whole thing was so distressing and frightening. I’m so lucky we were inside closed gates when he went down so I could open up the float.
I’m too scared to float again until I know of ways to prevent it happening again and have a plan in place if it was to happen again.
I want to get to you guys but, have no idea of where to go from here!! Maybe if things don’t get better I can get you to come to Boneo for the day as I’m too bloody scared to put him back on the float!!
If you have time to share any of your words of wisdom of where to go from here that would be great.
Once again sorry to both you and Michelle for messing up Wednesday.
Kind Regards,
Bronwyn.
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience and you horse got knocked around in the float.
Scrambling is usually based in anxiety and comes either a panic or a horse's attempt to find his balance. If you think back you'll probably find there have lots of little signs that your horse was not okay about floating. But often these can be quite small and we either don't notice them or dismiss them as being unimportant. Nevertheless, those little things have lead up to the point where he is now scrambling.
It was probably a mistake to have the pony in the float with him. The confinement caused by having to share the float with another horse may make matters worse. I assume you have a straight load float. Scrambling is something that occurs mostly in straight load floats and not angle floats or side facing or rear facing trucks. One thing you can try is to remove the divider from your float and give Swagman all the space. This will allow him to spread his feet and adjust the angle of his body to the most comfortable position for him to gain his balance. If that does not help you may have to consider buying an angle float or a JR straight load (which many people buy for horses with scrambling problems). If removing the divider does help overcome the problem then you have to consider that you can never float him again with another horse.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the floating tips.
You are right, I have noticed Swagman’s floating habits changing and getting worse. Things such as sweating up, pooing, moving forward and back before tail gate goes up, if you open the side door his eye has a fearful look and his breathing would be more rapid, calling out, and the latest one turning his head before I get to tie him up which, would mean his head would be on the other side of the stallion divider.
When I first got him, he travelled well. I have noticed since the anxiety/separation problems on the ground have gotten worse, it is carrying over to his floating too.
Will give removing the divider a go. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I really, really appreciate your help.
Once I get on top of the floating thing, I can come and get more knowledge and help from you and Michelle.
Will keep you posted on our progress!
Cheers,
Bronwyn.
Take him on small trips at first and drive slowly around corners and roundabouts.
Hi Ross,
So excited to tell you and Michelle, your advice worked. Swagman and I have just successfully floated, Yeh!
All dividers out.
Practiced right and left hand turns around the driveway of the farm. Off loaded him to have a pick of grass and a cuddle. A little more practicing then, then out on the road for a short ride back to his paddock.
Will practice every few days and build up the distance slowly if all stays good.
Had my husband Scott with me today to help and support as, I was very anxious that it could go pear shaped.
Hopefully it won’t be too long before we can make it your way. Such a shame Tanya and I had to cancel today, it’s her birthday today. We were looking forward to having a horsey birthday for her.
Cheers,
Bronwyn.
Great to hear the news. It sounds like you have a plan that should reap you a 'safe to travel' horse in time.
Heaviness On The Reins
Hey Ross!
Have a query for you. I have started doing some work with my lovely TB mare, who I have only ridden a handful of times as she has been leased out until recently.
Last weekend I pulled her out of the paddock after her having several weeks off. Did a tiny bit of ground work, which simply needs a bit of refining as she has the basics, but she was calm, so I jumped on. She did really well, and I felt better on her than I expected, as I do tend to be a little nervous on horses I'm not used to. And she is so very different to Cotton! She tends to be very heavy on the reins, and leans. She will also travel along very sweetly and fairly softly in one direction, but as soon as she sees the arena gate or gets distracted she loses it slightly and pulls heavily and tries to tank off. Nothing is particularly dramatic with her, her attempt at heading towards the gate etc is pretty half hearted (not being one to put in too much energy!) but it takes a fair bit of effort from me to get her to stop and/or turn etc. as is so heavy on the reins.
So she has never been particulary great at backing up under saddle. Its the one thing I dont think she has been taught well, if at all (she has had SOME decent training in the past, but has learnt a lot of bad habits in recent years with a certain prior owner :p). So I figured in order to lighten her up to the reins, I needed to install a back up in her. So I started by asking from a halt, she resisted ofcourse, but I held and she shifted her weight back, I released, next time she took a step back, and in a couple of minutes we at least had some level of back up (nothing brilliant, but she does catch on pretty quick). Then at a walk, everytime I asked for a halt, and she stuck her nose out and leant on the reins, I asked her to back up a couple of steps until she gave, and released. It seemed to work, though we only spent 10mins on it, and it was obviously just the very beginning. Does this sound like an ok approach to take with her? She learns quick - it will just take a bit to get her to do everything softly.
I also began a bit of work on yielding her hindquarters from the saddle, like you showed me with Cotton, which she seemed to pick up quite well too.
I wondered though, seen as she has learnt to be so heavy on the reins for so long, whether a side pull bitless bridle would be a good idea for a little while? Do you think that would help, or am I better off persisting with a bit? Just thought it may help break her mindset - as its pretty firmly entrenched in her to push and pull against pressure. No idea how she would go in it though. Obviously her ground work needs lightening up which will help under saddle too.
On another note - just read your post about people being strange. I agree! I've never understood people haha. I've never understood why some people persist with horses and others toss them aside when they stop winning ribbons. So many people over the past 5/6 years have asked me why I bother keeping Jack, my lovely standardbred, seen as I cant do much with him due to his headshaking syndrome. They cant understand why you would keep a horse you cant ride! But, despite me having barely ridden him over all this time, he has taught me more than any other horse I have ever encountered (being the complicated soul that he is). And he has been there for me through some pretty horrible times in my life - escaping to him and the paddocks has kept my sanity many times hehe. So he will live out his days with me, for as long as he is comfortable, I'll keep searching for answers to help his headshaking, do a bit of work with him on the odd occasion that he is up to it, and he can enjoy being king of the paddock! And he will continue to be my best friend. Same goes with my other horses - I spent thousands saving Cotton from a life threatening tumour, and I'd do it all again 10 times over, for a horse who gives me so much. A lot of people wouldnt get it, he is 'only' a bushy stock horse who is never going to be a superstar in terms of ribbons - but he is safe, fun and one hell of a little horse with a heart of gold (despite his issues), so how could you not? I believe in making a committment to a horse. That said, there are times when one must give up on a horse and move on. My first horse was entirely unsuitable for me, and I was lucky she didnt seriously hurt me. I tried everything I could at the time, got help, learnt heaps but after two years it still didnt work. Far too much horse for nervous me. Best thing for both of us, was moving her on to someone she did get along with.
As Toby says - people are strange creatures. Or at least most are - there are ofcourse a few brilliant ones around :p
Sarah
I hope Toby is doing better.
Teaching a horse to be softer and more responsive to the reins relies on them following the feel of the reins with their thought. You can teach to give with his feet alone with no change on thought but they never get soft, just light and that lightness will be gone the moment something more important happens.
When you say using the back up to get her lighter on the reins I know what you are saying, but be careful with how to think about this. it's not the back up you are after, it's a soft feel on the rein. When asking for the softer feel your horses may back up as a consequence, but the backing up is secondary to the softness. If she offers a softness with only a shift in weight and not movement of her feet that would be just fine.
There is no doubt that getting your mare better on the reins will help with the arena gate problem, but there are other approaches that can help. If the problem persists let me know and I may be able to offer some other ideas for you to try.
With a horse that is habitually heavy on the reins, changing to something else like a side pull can help because it gives the horse such a very different feel that they don't know how to lean on it yet. The other aspect of using a side pull is that it allows you to use a lot of rein pressure if you have to, yet not cause any pain to the horse. Whereas, the same pressure with a bit can cause them terrible pain and worry about the bit. But the side pull is just a temporary help to break a habit and not a permanent solution for a horse that leans on the bit.
With regards to your comments about people and horses, I had a neighbour many years ago who told me that he didn't see any use for any horse that was not racing or pulling a plow - there was no other reason to breed or own a horse. That's what I call narrow minded!
Hi Ross,
So sorry Tanya and I have had to cancel Wednesday with you and Michelle.
Both Tanya and I were so excited and looking forward to it.
I can’t come as, my horse Swagman yesterday went down in the float and has a lot of swelling in one leg and a few cuts and skin off.
Bloody hell, I’m really not sure what is going wrong and, just wondered if you could share any floating tips to help me out to get him floating well again.
Up until the last 3 times I have floated him, he has never scrambled or moved before. Not sure if all this anxiety stuff is now messing up his floating. I’m confused as he has had his best friend (our pony whom is so attached to) with him on 2 of the times he has scrambled. And, on this occasion going down in the float yesterday.
The whole thing was so distressing and frightening. I’m so lucky we were inside closed gates when he went down so I could open up the float.
I’m too scared to float again until I know of ways to prevent it happening again and have a plan in place if it was to happen again.
I want to get to you guys but, have no idea of where to go from here!! Maybe if things don’t get better I can get you to come to Boneo for the day as I’m too bloody scared to put him back on the float!!
If you have time to share any of your words of wisdom of where to go from here that would be great.
Once again sorry to both you and Michelle for messing up Wednesday.
Kind Regards,
Bronwyn.
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience and you horse got knocked around in the float.
Scrambling is usually based in anxiety and comes either a panic or a horse's attempt to find his balance. If you think back you'll probably find there have lots of little signs that your horse was not okay about floating. But often these can be quite small and we either don't notice them or dismiss them as being unimportant. Nevertheless, those little things have lead up to the point where he is now scrambling.
It was probably a mistake to have the pony in the float with him. The confinement caused by having to share the float with another horse may make matters worse. I assume you have a straight load float. Scrambling is something that occurs mostly in straight load floats and not angle floats or side facing or rear facing trucks. One thing you can try is to remove the divider from your float and give Swagman all the space. This will allow him to spread his feet and adjust the angle of his body to the most comfortable position for him to gain his balance. If that does not help you may have to consider buying an angle float or a JR straight load (which many people buy for horses with scrambling problems). If removing the divider does help overcome the problem then you have to consider that you can never float him again with another horse.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the floating tips.
You are right, I have noticed Swagman’s floating habits changing and getting worse. Things such as sweating up, pooing, moving forward and back before tail gate goes up, if you open the side door his eye has a fearful look and his breathing would be more rapid, calling out, and the latest one turning his head before I get to tie him up which, would mean his head would be on the other side of the stallion divider.
When I first got him, he travelled well. I have noticed since the anxiety/separation problems on the ground have gotten worse, it is carrying over to his floating too.
Will give removing the divider a go. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I really, really appreciate your help.
Once I get on top of the floating thing, I can come and get more knowledge and help from you and Michelle.
Will keep you posted on our progress!
Cheers,
Bronwyn.
Take him on small trips at first and drive slowly around corners and roundabouts.
Hi Ross,
So excited to tell you and Michelle, your advice worked. Swagman and I have just successfully floated, Yeh!
All dividers out.
Practiced right and left hand turns around the driveway of the farm. Off loaded him to have a pick of grass and a cuddle. A little more practicing then, then out on the road for a short ride back to his paddock.
Will practice every few days and build up the distance slowly if all stays good.
Had my husband Scott with me today to help and support as, I was very anxious that it could go pear shaped.
Hopefully it won’t be too long before we can make it your way. Such a shame Tanya and I had to cancel today, it’s her birthday today. We were looking forward to having a horsey birthday for her.
Cheers,
Bronwyn.
Great to hear the news. It sounds like you have a plan that should reap you a 'safe to travel' horse in time.
Heaviness On The Reins
Hey Ross!
Have a query for you. I have started doing some work with my lovely TB mare, who I have only ridden a handful of times as she has been leased out until recently.
Last weekend I pulled her out of the paddock after her having several weeks off. Did a tiny bit of ground work, which simply needs a bit of refining as she has the basics, but she was calm, so I jumped on. She did really well, and I felt better on her than I expected, as I do tend to be a little nervous on horses I'm not used to. And she is so very different to Cotton! She tends to be very heavy on the reins, and leans. She will also travel along very sweetly and fairly softly in one direction, but as soon as she sees the arena gate or gets distracted she loses it slightly and pulls heavily and tries to tank off. Nothing is particularly dramatic with her, her attempt at heading towards the gate etc is pretty half hearted (not being one to put in too much energy!) but it takes a fair bit of effort from me to get her to stop and/or turn etc. as is so heavy on the reins.
So she has never been particulary great at backing up under saddle. Its the one thing I dont think she has been taught well, if at all (she has had SOME decent training in the past, but has learnt a lot of bad habits in recent years with a certain prior owner :p). So I figured in order to lighten her up to the reins, I needed to install a back up in her. So I started by asking from a halt, she resisted ofcourse, but I held and she shifted her weight back, I released, next time she took a step back, and in a couple of minutes we at least had some level of back up (nothing brilliant, but she does catch on pretty quick). Then at a walk, everytime I asked for a halt, and she stuck her nose out and leant on the reins, I asked her to back up a couple of steps until she gave, and released. It seemed to work, though we only spent 10mins on it, and it was obviously just the very beginning. Does this sound like an ok approach to take with her? She learns quick - it will just take a bit to get her to do everything softly.
I also began a bit of work on yielding her hindquarters from the saddle, like you showed me with Cotton, which she seemed to pick up quite well too.
I wondered though, seen as she has learnt to be so heavy on the reins for so long, whether a side pull bitless bridle would be a good idea for a little while? Do you think that would help, or am I better off persisting with a bit? Just thought it may help break her mindset - as its pretty firmly entrenched in her to push and pull against pressure. No idea how she would go in it though. Obviously her ground work needs lightening up which will help under saddle too.
On another note - just read your post about people being strange. I agree! I've never understood people haha. I've never understood why some people persist with horses and others toss them aside when they stop winning ribbons. So many people over the past 5/6 years have asked me why I bother keeping Jack, my lovely standardbred, seen as I cant do much with him due to his headshaking syndrome. They cant understand why you would keep a horse you cant ride! But, despite me having barely ridden him over all this time, he has taught me more than any other horse I have ever encountered (being the complicated soul that he is). And he has been there for me through some pretty horrible times in my life - escaping to him and the paddocks has kept my sanity many times hehe. So he will live out his days with me, for as long as he is comfortable, I'll keep searching for answers to help his headshaking, do a bit of work with him on the odd occasion that he is up to it, and he can enjoy being king of the paddock! And he will continue to be my best friend. Same goes with my other horses - I spent thousands saving Cotton from a life threatening tumour, and I'd do it all again 10 times over, for a horse who gives me so much. A lot of people wouldnt get it, he is 'only' a bushy stock horse who is never going to be a superstar in terms of ribbons - but he is safe, fun and one hell of a little horse with a heart of gold (despite his issues), so how could you not? I believe in making a committment to a horse. That said, there are times when one must give up on a horse and move on. My first horse was entirely unsuitable for me, and I was lucky she didnt seriously hurt me. I tried everything I could at the time, got help, learnt heaps but after two years it still didnt work. Far too much horse for nervous me. Best thing for both of us, was moving her on to someone she did get along with.
As Toby says - people are strange creatures. Or at least most are - there are ofcourse a few brilliant ones around :p
Sarah
I hope Toby is doing better.
Teaching a horse to be softer and more responsive to the reins relies on them following the feel of the reins with their thought. You can teach to give with his feet alone with no change on thought but they never get soft, just light and that lightness will be gone the moment something more important happens.
When you say using the back up to get her lighter on the reins I know what you are saying, but be careful with how to think about this. it's not the back up you are after, it's a soft feel on the rein. When asking for the softer feel your horses may back up as a consequence, but the backing up is secondary to the softness. If she offers a softness with only a shift in weight and not movement of her feet that would be just fine.
There is no doubt that getting your mare better on the reins will help with the arena gate problem, but there are other approaches that can help. If the problem persists let me know and I may be able to offer some other ideas for you to try.
With a horse that is habitually heavy on the reins, changing to something else like a side pull can help because it gives the horse such a very different feel that they don't know how to lean on it yet. The other aspect of using a side pull is that it allows you to use a lot of rein pressure if you have to, yet not cause any pain to the horse. Whereas, the same pressure with a bit can cause them terrible pain and worry about the bit. But the side pull is just a temporary help to break a habit and not a permanent solution for a horse that leans on the bit.
With regards to your comments about people and horses, I had a neighbour many years ago who told me that he didn't see any use for any horse that was not racing or pulling a plow - there was no other reason to breed or own a horse. That's what I call narrow minded!
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21 June '10
Des Miller tells me there are a few session still available for the clinic in Seville this coming Saturday. Perhaps the people whose lessons were canceled yesterday because of the rain would consider booking into the Seville clinic. If you are interested in attending you can contact Des by checking out her details on the Schedule page.
Bringing A Breaker Back Into Work
On Saturday I had the pleasure of helping a very nice lady who brought her horse to a lesson for re-starting. Michele had broken in the horse in February, but circumstances got in the way of the owner being able to do much of anything with her when she took her home. About 3 weeks ago she decided she should start working the horse again. But when she went to saddle and ride she felt a lot of tightness in the horse. The horse did nothing wrong, but the owner rightly felt that the horse did not feel good and decided to wait until the lesson weekend. On Saturday I worked the horse before saddling, then again once she was saddled. There certainly was some tightness to begin with, but she quickly let it go. I have to boast about what a really good job Michele had done starting this horse. I know that the horse was not an easy project, but Michele had turned her into a horse with a lot of try. After about 30 mins the horse was ready for the lady to ride. Both the owner and the horse did great and I'm sure both of them were smiling at the end. I know they will get along just fine and the owner has promised to give her plenty of riding.
It's always a problem when a horse gets started and then is left to linger for weeks or months. When a horse is broken in, nothing it has learned is yet solid. In the process of being broken in a horse may have had only 20 rides (some less and some a few more). This is not enough to establish in a young horse the things you want it to know for the rest of it's life. It's just graduated from child care and entering kindergarten. So to do nothing with it for weeks or months after it comes home from the breaker means it is unlikely to be in the same spot it was when when you first brought it home (although I have know one or two horses that have been okay). But if the breaker did a good job it won't take much effort to get the horse okay again - but it will take something. There are few horses that you can just saddle and ride with no preparation after a long spell from being broken in.
Why Do We Ride The Horses We Do?
Lately I've had reason to question why some people persevere with the horses they have and other people don't persevere at all with their horses. People are strange creature, for sure. I have seen people riding horses that scare the hair off them. I even know one person who suffers severe nausea every time she goes to saddle her horse. Yet week after week, month after month this lady puts herself through the trauma of riding her horse 4 times a week. I know she cares about her horse, but I don't see that as a reason to put herself through such trauma time after time. Why do that to yourself. I know what it is like to be afraid of a horse. There is one particular horse that always comes to my mind when I think about fear and horses. It was many years ago when I was working in Europe. He had hurt a few very experienced people and nobody wanted to deal with him. I didn't want to deal with him! He scared the hell out of me and I wouldn't have worked with him except that it was my job and I needed to prove myself to my employer. In the end I am proud of the outcome and am happy to say that eventually he became a quiet and reliable riding horse - but both he and I went through hell to get there and it wasn't fun. But most of you don't have to ride horses that scare you. You don't depend on them for a living. Riding a horse is a choice, so why choose horses that are not fun? I wish somebody could explain this to me. I am constantly amazed by clients who choose to ride horses that I wouldn't. I figure they are either incredibly brave or too ignorant to know the danger they place themselves. They ride horses with no brakes and no steering. Horses that are close to the edge of explosion. Yet they do it day after day and week after week. Often they do it with fear in their belly, but they still get on. Why?
Then there are people on the other end of the scale. These are people who don't persevere with a horse for the most trivial reasons. I know people who sell horses because judges don't like their colour or because they wanted him to grow to 16hh and he only grew to 15.2hh. I know a person who professed to love their horse to death and then got rid of her because her coat colour faded with age and made her less spectacular in the show ring. At a dinner we were invited to recently a lady was telling me all about her wonderful horse that she loved more than her kids and how sad she felt about selling him because he wasn't just going to make it to the top level of competition. To me that's like saying I am going to disown my child because he isn't ever going to be good enough to be brilliant! I don't understand how a person can believe they have such depth of feeling for a horse and yet discard them so easily for not fulfilling their ambitions. I can't believe people who do this really love their horses. I believe they own a horse to fulfill an agenda and it's the agenda that they love.
People are strange.
Bringing A Breaker Back Into Work
On Saturday I had the pleasure of helping a very nice lady who brought her horse to a lesson for re-starting. Michele had broken in the horse in February, but circumstances got in the way of the owner being able to do much of anything with her when she took her home. About 3 weeks ago she decided she should start working the horse again. But when she went to saddle and ride she felt a lot of tightness in the horse. The horse did nothing wrong, but the owner rightly felt that the horse did not feel good and decided to wait until the lesson weekend. On Saturday I worked the horse before saddling, then again once she was saddled. There certainly was some tightness to begin with, but she quickly let it go. I have to boast about what a really good job Michele had done starting this horse. I know that the horse was not an easy project, but Michele had turned her into a horse with a lot of try. After about 30 mins the horse was ready for the lady to ride. Both the owner and the horse did great and I'm sure both of them were smiling at the end. I know they will get along just fine and the owner has promised to give her plenty of riding.
It's always a problem when a horse gets started and then is left to linger for weeks or months. When a horse is broken in, nothing it has learned is yet solid. In the process of being broken in a horse may have had only 20 rides (some less and some a few more). This is not enough to establish in a young horse the things you want it to know for the rest of it's life. It's just graduated from child care and entering kindergarten. So to do nothing with it for weeks or months after it comes home from the breaker means it is unlikely to be in the same spot it was when when you first brought it home (although I have know one or two horses that have been okay). But if the breaker did a good job it won't take much effort to get the horse okay again - but it will take something. There are few horses that you can just saddle and ride with no preparation after a long spell from being broken in.
Why Do We Ride The Horses We Do?
Lately I've had reason to question why some people persevere with the horses they have and other people don't persevere at all with their horses. People are strange creature, for sure. I have seen people riding horses that scare the hair off them. I even know one person who suffers severe nausea every time she goes to saddle her horse. Yet week after week, month after month this lady puts herself through the trauma of riding her horse 4 times a week. I know she cares about her horse, but I don't see that as a reason to put herself through such trauma time after time. Why do that to yourself. I know what it is like to be afraid of a horse. There is one particular horse that always comes to my mind when I think about fear and horses. It was many years ago when I was working in Europe. He had hurt a few very experienced people and nobody wanted to deal with him. I didn't want to deal with him! He scared the hell out of me and I wouldn't have worked with him except that it was my job and I needed to prove myself to my employer. In the end I am proud of the outcome and am happy to say that eventually he became a quiet and reliable riding horse - but both he and I went through hell to get there and it wasn't fun. But most of you don't have to ride horses that scare you. You don't depend on them for a living. Riding a horse is a choice, so why choose horses that are not fun? I wish somebody could explain this to me. I am constantly amazed by clients who choose to ride horses that I wouldn't. I figure they are either incredibly brave or too ignorant to know the danger they place themselves. They ride horses with no brakes and no steering. Horses that are close to the edge of explosion. Yet they do it day after day and week after week. Often they do it with fear in their belly, but they still get on. Why?
Then there are people on the other end of the scale. These are people who don't persevere with a horse for the most trivial reasons. I know people who sell horses because judges don't like their colour or because they wanted him to grow to 16hh and he only grew to 15.2hh. I know a person who professed to love their horse to death and then got rid of her because her coat colour faded with age and made her less spectacular in the show ring. At a dinner we were invited to recently a lady was telling me all about her wonderful horse that she loved more than her kids and how sad she felt about selling him because he wasn't just going to make it to the top level of competition. To me that's like saying I am going to disown my child because he isn't ever going to be good enough to be brilliant! I don't understand how a person can believe they have such depth of feeling for a horse and yet discard them so easily for not fulfilling their ambitions. I can't believe people who do this really love their horses. I believe they own a horse to fulfill an agenda and it's the agenda that they love.
People are strange.
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18 June '10
I went to work this morning to find the round yard covered in 12mm of water - it was like a duck pond. The rain came down yesterday, along with the wind and hail. It took me quite a while this morning to clear the drain and build up of earth around the drain with the tractor. When it was cleared the water gushed out of there like Niagara Falls. With a bit of luck and more of the wind we have been getting lately, the round yard and arena might be useable for our lesson weekend starting tomorrow.
I just completed another story for Chaff Chat. But this time I have deviated from the usual Walt and Amos stories to begin a series on the training progress of one particular horse. I am going to narrate my escapades with a horse in training from the first day I saw him to the last day. The star of the series is based on a particular horse that I crossed paths with many years ago. But added to that will be elements of my experiences with other horses that have left an indelible impression on me. These stories will soon begin to appear each month on the story page of this web site, so those of you who do not subscribe to Chaff Chat will have a chance to read them. I hope you'll let me know how you like the stories even in the absence of Walt and Amos.
Lateral Flexion and Hindquarter Disengagement Explained Further
I have been corresponding with a friend about the lateral flexion issue that I have discussed previously. He said something that really helped me understand how the way I explain it causes so much confusion. I am very grateful for his input because I think what he had to say will help me in the future when I try to teach hindquarter yields. Here is an excerpt from his e-mail, followed by my reply.
I'm still trying to get my head around what you do when you bend their head. If so, that means you would be teaching your horse to travel on the front end, because if every time you steer he steps his hind feet the other way, he'd be transferring his weight to his front feet as he does it. If this happens every time you steer your horse will soon carry himself on his front end preparing for a turn. I'd be interested to know which feet you are planning to move.
Thank you clearing up for me what I was saying that confused you. I think I now understand why I was not making myself clear.
You say their feet move, but it sounds like its the hind feet that disengage when you bend their head...
Yes, the hindquarters disengage when you use a indirect rein to bend their neck around and front feet only turn on the spot so that the hind feet move around the front feet.
If so, that means you would be teaching your horse to travel on the front end, beacause if every time you steer he steps his hind feet the other way, he'd be transferring his weight to his front feet as he does it.
Actually, the opposite is true. The horse transfers weight onto the hind end when he properly disengages his hq. I now see why this is confusing for you and I wish I had a video to show you to clear up what appears to be a contradiction. But I will try to explain as best I can.
This is what I try to teach a horse. When a horse bends to the left the bend causes him to disengage his hq to the right. Only rein is used - no inside leg. When the horse follows the rein correctly, he looks (thinks) to the left, disengages his hq to the right, transfers about 10-15% of his weight to the rear end and his right shoulder (outside shoulder) STOPS stepping forward and to the right. If the rider then took his rein to the left (direct rein) the horse would step his shoulder to the left (like a forehand yield).
What happens in most cases and certainly in what you have in mind, is that the rider bends the horse using an inside indirect rein, the horse disengages his hq to the right. But the right shoulder keeps stepping to the right and forward while the horse pivots around the left (inside) shoulder. In this case the horse is thinking out to the right because he resists the left rein. So the horse is pushing his shoulders away from the bend (to the right) because he is thinking (looking) away from the bend even though his nose is pointing left. To keep pushing the shoulders to the right and forward the hq must be pushing forward and therefore the horse traveling on the forehand. This is what the majority of green and educated horses do in their turns.
But when the horse bends to the left, thinks left, disengages his hq right, he shifts weight off his forehand and prepares his shoulders to go left. I hope that is clearer. Again, I wish I could show you what I mean because i think then it would be dead obvious. if you had come to see Harry when he was here I think you would see what I am saying.
One thing you can feel when you are doing these is that if it is wrong, when you bend the horse using the left rein and his hq disengage to the right, your seat will be tipped to the right in the saddle - you'll feel yourself falling to the right. But when it is correct and the horse is thinking to the left your seat will be more upright and in a neutral position.
On the subject of lateral flexion, every performance horse in the world does a lot of it, and they can all steer in one hand on a loose rein without running their shoulder out. So it's probably the people you seen doing it, do it wrong, and you've reached the conclusion it causes the shoulder to run out. It's a bit like this. I haven't ever seen a good horseman with a beard (seriously), but that doesn't mean because you have a beard you're not a good horseman, it's just that all the bearded people I've been around weren't very good with horses. (That clown from XXXXXX has a beard, what's his name?You know the one, he was a ZZZZZZ all his life then one day he's a horsetrainer and feels the need to share his thoughts on video. Ahh, can't think of his name, you said he has the worst timing.)
I don't believe that lateral flexions are the culprit. I believe that people not understanding what is and is not correct for a horse is the culprit that causes the problems. Lateral flexions can be taught in a way that a horse still turns correctly. But my criticism is two fold (i) I don't see a reason for them on a young horse, (ii) people teach them to their horse and then believe their horse gives a correct response to the reins. Just because a horse can bend his neck does not mean he can follow a rein correctly. But that's what many people believe. It's not until the horse moves his feet that you find out whether or not he does follow the rein correctly. So why teach him to not move his feet?
Horse Won’t Stand Still
Hi Ross,
Been watching that awful Monty Roberts buckstopper video. Poor horse looks so tense - its tail is crooked and you can hear it's shallow breathing.
On a different question...my big TB mare is back in work and we have been getting on quite well together out on the trail. I know I have much room for improvement in my groundwork still (in particular in getting her to focus) but our relationship has improved a lot. One issue we have is that she really worries about standing still when we are out - not a valued skill in a racehorse! She used to paw the ground and move about when simply tied up but that has gone with practice. I keep practising standing still when we are out and am very conscious of the fact that she does it best when she is feeling more relaxed. She tends to creep forwards or move sideways if I ask her to stand too long - perhaps that's where I am going wrong and need to do shorter stands. On one occasion I felt she had a buck in her and she can really move her feet quite fast in trying to evade the stand. Any tips on how I might help her to relax more and be able to stand still on the trail?
Regards
Fiona
I think you are already thinking in the right direction to help your horse stand still. The constant moving around is based in anxiety. That anxiety will increase the more you try to force her to stand still. Rather than tell her she can't move, direct her movement in a way that you choose. Just when you feel her getting ready to move, ask her to turn left, turn right, back up, forehand yield to the left, walk a tiny circle, hq yield on the right, back up again etc. Keep changing what you want her to do every stride or two to encourage her to listen to you rather than to mentally leave the scene and take her feet with her. Then when you feel her settle and listening to you, don't ask anything of her and see if she'll stand still. If she does, pet her and leave her alone. If you think she can stand for 5 sec, start directing her again at 4 sec - before she moves of her own volition. Do the same thing again. But if she still can't stand still at all, keep moving her until you feel a change come over her and try to see if she will stand still again. Remember, don't try to make her stand still. Let her choose to stand still and simply direct her feet if she chooses not to. In time, she'll get really quiet about standing and be fine to stand on a loose rein while all the horses are cantering around her. Good luck.
I just completed another story for Chaff Chat. But this time I have deviated from the usual Walt and Amos stories to begin a series on the training progress of one particular horse. I am going to narrate my escapades with a horse in training from the first day I saw him to the last day. The star of the series is based on a particular horse that I crossed paths with many years ago. But added to that will be elements of my experiences with other horses that have left an indelible impression on me. These stories will soon begin to appear each month on the story page of this web site, so those of you who do not subscribe to Chaff Chat will have a chance to read them. I hope you'll let me know how you like the stories even in the absence of Walt and Amos.
Lateral Flexion and Hindquarter Disengagement Explained Further
I have been corresponding with a friend about the lateral flexion issue that I have discussed previously. He said something that really helped me understand how the way I explain it causes so much confusion. I am very grateful for his input because I think what he had to say will help me in the future when I try to teach hindquarter yields. Here is an excerpt from his e-mail, followed by my reply.
I'm still trying to get my head around what you do when you bend their head. If so, that means you would be teaching your horse to travel on the front end, because if every time you steer he steps his hind feet the other way, he'd be transferring his weight to his front feet as he does it. If this happens every time you steer your horse will soon carry himself on his front end preparing for a turn. I'd be interested to know which feet you are planning to move.
Thank you clearing up for me what I was saying that confused you. I think I now understand why I was not making myself clear.
You say their feet move, but it sounds like its the hind feet that disengage when you bend their head...
Yes, the hindquarters disengage when you use a indirect rein to bend their neck around and front feet only turn on the spot so that the hind feet move around the front feet.
If so, that means you would be teaching your horse to travel on the front end, beacause if every time you steer he steps his hind feet the other way, he'd be transferring his weight to his front feet as he does it.
Actually, the opposite is true. The horse transfers weight onto the hind end when he properly disengages his hq. I now see why this is confusing for you and I wish I had a video to show you to clear up what appears to be a contradiction. But I will try to explain as best I can.
This is what I try to teach a horse. When a horse bends to the left the bend causes him to disengage his hq to the right. Only rein is used - no inside leg. When the horse follows the rein correctly, he looks (thinks) to the left, disengages his hq to the right, transfers about 10-15% of his weight to the rear end and his right shoulder (outside shoulder) STOPS stepping forward and to the right. If the rider then took his rein to the left (direct rein) the horse would step his shoulder to the left (like a forehand yield).
What happens in most cases and certainly in what you have in mind, is that the rider bends the horse using an inside indirect rein, the horse disengages his hq to the right. But the right shoulder keeps stepping to the right and forward while the horse pivots around the left (inside) shoulder. In this case the horse is thinking out to the right because he resists the left rein. So the horse is pushing his shoulders away from the bend (to the right) because he is thinking (looking) away from the bend even though his nose is pointing left. To keep pushing the shoulders to the right and forward the hq must be pushing forward and therefore the horse traveling on the forehand. This is what the majority of green and educated horses do in their turns.
But when the horse bends to the left, thinks left, disengages his hq right, he shifts weight off his forehand and prepares his shoulders to go left. I hope that is clearer. Again, I wish I could show you what I mean because i think then it would be dead obvious. if you had come to see Harry when he was here I think you would see what I am saying.
One thing you can feel when you are doing these is that if it is wrong, when you bend the horse using the left rein and his hq disengage to the right, your seat will be tipped to the right in the saddle - you'll feel yourself falling to the right. But when it is correct and the horse is thinking to the left your seat will be more upright and in a neutral position.
On the subject of lateral flexion, every performance horse in the world does a lot of it, and they can all steer in one hand on a loose rein without running their shoulder out. So it's probably the people you seen doing it, do it wrong, and you've reached the conclusion it causes the shoulder to run out. It's a bit like this. I haven't ever seen a good horseman with a beard (seriously), but that doesn't mean because you have a beard you're not a good horseman, it's just that all the bearded people I've been around weren't very good with horses. (That clown from XXXXXX has a beard, what's his name?You know the one, he was a ZZZZZZ all his life then one day he's a horsetrainer and feels the need to share his thoughts on video. Ahh, can't think of his name, you said he has the worst timing.)
I don't believe that lateral flexions are the culprit. I believe that people not understanding what is and is not correct for a horse is the culprit that causes the problems. Lateral flexions can be taught in a way that a horse still turns correctly. But my criticism is two fold (i) I don't see a reason for them on a young horse, (ii) people teach them to their horse and then believe their horse gives a correct response to the reins. Just because a horse can bend his neck does not mean he can follow a rein correctly. But that's what many people believe. It's not until the horse moves his feet that you find out whether or not he does follow the rein correctly. So why teach him to not move his feet?
Horse Won’t Stand Still
Hi Ross,
Been watching that awful Monty Roberts buckstopper video. Poor horse looks so tense - its tail is crooked and you can hear it's shallow breathing.
On a different question...my big TB mare is back in work and we have been getting on quite well together out on the trail. I know I have much room for improvement in my groundwork still (in particular in getting her to focus) but our relationship has improved a lot. One issue we have is that she really worries about standing still when we are out - not a valued skill in a racehorse! She used to paw the ground and move about when simply tied up but that has gone with practice. I keep practising standing still when we are out and am very conscious of the fact that she does it best when she is feeling more relaxed. She tends to creep forwards or move sideways if I ask her to stand too long - perhaps that's where I am going wrong and need to do shorter stands. On one occasion I felt she had a buck in her and she can really move her feet quite fast in trying to evade the stand. Any tips on how I might help her to relax more and be able to stand still on the trail?
Regards
Fiona
I think you are already thinking in the right direction to help your horse stand still. The constant moving around is based in anxiety. That anxiety will increase the more you try to force her to stand still. Rather than tell her she can't move, direct her movement in a way that you choose. Just when you feel her getting ready to move, ask her to turn left, turn right, back up, forehand yield to the left, walk a tiny circle, hq yield on the right, back up again etc. Keep changing what you want her to do every stride or two to encourage her to listen to you rather than to mentally leave the scene and take her feet with her. Then when you feel her settle and listening to you, don't ask anything of her and see if she'll stand still. If she does, pet her and leave her alone. If you think she can stand for 5 sec, start directing her again at 4 sec - before she moves of her own volition. Do the same thing again. But if she still can't stand still at all, keep moving her until you feel a change come over her and try to see if she will stand still again. Remember, don't try to make her stand still. Let her choose to stand still and simply direct her feet if she chooses not to. In time, she'll get really quiet about standing and be fine to stand on a loose rein while all the horses are cantering around her. Good luck.
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16 June '10
The Buck Stops Here
All the client's horses are doing well. The horse that came because of a bucking issue is making good changes. He hasn't tried to buck yet, but he needs more work on his response to 2 reins. Also he crashes on his forehand pretty hard in the turns, but each ride is making a difference for him.
While on the topic of this horse with the bucking issue, I think it is important to understand what it is I am training him to do. I am not training the buck out of him. I am not teaching him he can't or shouldn't buck. That's not what I believe is "helping" a horse. A lot of trainers try to encourage the horse to buck and then intervene in a way that makes the horse feel horrible about bucking so that he wouldn't choose to buck even if he wanted to.
All the client's horses are doing well. The horse that came because of a bucking issue is making good changes. He hasn't tried to buck yet, but he needs more work on his response to 2 reins. Also he crashes on his forehand pretty hard in the turns, but each ride is making a difference for him.
While on the topic of this horse with the bucking issue, I think it is important to understand what it is I am training him to do. I am not training the buck out of him. I am not teaching him he can't or shouldn't buck. That's not what I believe is "helping" a horse. A lot of trainers try to encourage the horse to buck and then intervene in a way that makes the horse feel horrible about bucking so that he wouldn't choose to buck even if he wanted to.
The device that Monty Roberts uses called the buck stopper works on this principle. For it to work the horse must put his head down to buck. When that happens he is reefed by a string that runs along the top of his gums and is fixed to the saddle. This contraption causes horrible pain for a horse that puts his head down to buck. The success of the buck stopper relies on a horse's fear of the pain it causes when he bucks.
The buck stopper is just one gadget and there are many methods and devices that people use which work in the same way as the buck stopper in that they cause a horse so much discomfort that not bucking is the least horrible choice for them. Another contraption is a running W which is designed to allow the rider or handler to pull a horse's legs away from under him if he bucks causing him to fall down. Again, it relies on the device making the horse afraid to buck.
Probably a more common approach and only slightly less violent is to reef the bucking horse's head up and spur him forward until he stops bucking. Similarly, many riders will bend the horse's neck around and drive his hindquarters to disengage over and over until the horse learns that bucking is just too hard.
All these approaches rely on making life too hard on a horse that chooses to buck. But a horse only chooses to buck because life is already too hard. It is his way of sending the rider the message that what is being asked of him makes him feel horrible. Bucking is just one way some horses express their distress, Other horses may bolt, freeze or rear.
In my view the long term solution is to work a horse in a way that does not make him feel the need to defend himself. This is achieved by working with compassion and clarity. Help a horse do better with the things he already knows and teach him the new things he needs to know in a way that he can tolerate, without bringing out the feelings that caused him to buck in the first place. I tell clients that if their horse wants to buck, don't let him go to that place where those feelings need to be expressed. In other words, work him in a way that he doesn't have to feel so bad inside.
This is how I am approaching the bucking problem in the horse I am training at present. Not only is he not bucking, but the quality of his work is improving. He is straighter, softer on the reins and more focused on me. The things that would normally trigger a bucking spree, he is handling in his stride (forgive the pun!) after only 4 rides.
A Time And A Place
Having said all that I should say that I believe there is a place for devices like buck stopper or running W. But it's a last resort - not a first. It for when all other avenues have been tried and the ability of a horse to search for alternative responses other than bucking is lost. It's for when a horse gives up trying something else and the bucking has become totally habitual - he does it and he doesn't even no any longer why he does it.
In cases like this a horses does not even know there are other options, so something like a buck stopper or a running W can give him a kick in the bum to say "hey mate, try something else because this is not going to work any longer." It almost that because he doesn't look for other ways to respond any longer that he has to be made to aware of other choices rather than allowed to just search his options. He has stopped searching his options, so he has to be dragged kicking and screaming and shown that bucking isn't going to work.
Another Pet Peeve
As I said above, techniques like the buck stopper are a last resort. But for many trainers they are a first resort. If you watched the video above Monty mentions that his method has saved lives - both horse and human. I am sick of hearing how somebody's method has saved the lives of horses. There is an Aussie trainer who never tires of telling anybody who'll listen how his horrible training methods saves horses lives every day. Every time he discusses or demonstrates a method it gets mentioned that he has saved yet another horse's life.
It could be argued that just about any training method or practice that does not result in a horse going to the dogger has saved lives. But I question the value in a method that maybe prevents a horse from being destroyed for behaviourial reasons, but leads to a life of misery for that horse. In my opinion, there are far worse things that can happen to a horse than humane euthanasia. Using a method of training that alters a horse's dangerous behaviour, but does not alter the feelings that caused the behaviour in the first place is not necessarily doing a horse any favours. When somebody says that their method saved a horse's from being destroyed, I am left to wonder if they saved them for a lifetime of misery or not.
The buck stopper is just one gadget and there are many methods and devices that people use which work in the same way as the buck stopper in that they cause a horse so much discomfort that not bucking is the least horrible choice for them. Another contraption is a running W which is designed to allow the rider or handler to pull a horse's legs away from under him if he bucks causing him to fall down. Again, it relies on the device making the horse afraid to buck.
Probably a more common approach and only slightly less violent is to reef the bucking horse's head up and spur him forward until he stops bucking. Similarly, many riders will bend the horse's neck around and drive his hindquarters to disengage over and over until the horse learns that bucking is just too hard.
All these approaches rely on making life too hard on a horse that chooses to buck. But a horse only chooses to buck because life is already too hard. It is his way of sending the rider the message that what is being asked of him makes him feel horrible. Bucking is just one way some horses express their distress, Other horses may bolt, freeze or rear.
In my view the long term solution is to work a horse in a way that does not make him feel the need to defend himself. This is achieved by working with compassion and clarity. Help a horse do better with the things he already knows and teach him the new things he needs to know in a way that he can tolerate, without bringing out the feelings that caused him to buck in the first place. I tell clients that if their horse wants to buck, don't let him go to that place where those feelings need to be expressed. In other words, work him in a way that he doesn't have to feel so bad inside.
This is how I am approaching the bucking problem in the horse I am training at present. Not only is he not bucking, but the quality of his work is improving. He is straighter, softer on the reins and more focused on me. The things that would normally trigger a bucking spree, he is handling in his stride (forgive the pun!) after only 4 rides.
A Time And A Place
Having said all that I should say that I believe there is a place for devices like buck stopper or running W. But it's a last resort - not a first. It for when all other avenues have been tried and the ability of a horse to search for alternative responses other than bucking is lost. It's for when a horse gives up trying something else and the bucking has become totally habitual - he does it and he doesn't even no any longer why he does it.
In cases like this a horses does not even know there are other options, so something like a buck stopper or a running W can give him a kick in the bum to say "hey mate, try something else because this is not going to work any longer." It almost that because he doesn't look for other ways to respond any longer that he has to be made to aware of other choices rather than allowed to just search his options. He has stopped searching his options, so he has to be dragged kicking and screaming and shown that bucking isn't going to work.
Another Pet Peeve
As I said above, techniques like the buck stopper are a last resort. But for many trainers they are a first resort. If you watched the video above Monty mentions that his method has saved lives - both horse and human. I am sick of hearing how somebody's method has saved the lives of horses. There is an Aussie trainer who never tires of telling anybody who'll listen how his horrible training methods saves horses lives every day. Every time he discusses or demonstrates a method it gets mentioned that he has saved yet another horse's life.
It could be argued that just about any training method or practice that does not result in a horse going to the dogger has saved lives. But I question the value in a method that maybe prevents a horse from being destroyed for behaviourial reasons, but leads to a life of misery for that horse. In my opinion, there are far worse things that can happen to a horse than humane euthanasia. Using a method of training that alters a horse's dangerous behaviour, but does not alter the feelings that caused the behaviour in the first place is not necessarily doing a horse any favours. When somebody says that their method saved a horse's from being destroyed, I am left to wonder if they saved them for a lifetime of misery or not.
Colt Starting Clinics
Hi Ross,
I have been reading your web site and really got a lot out of it. I like your way with the horses and would like you to start my 3 year old QH X gelding. But I want to be involved and was wondering if I could bring him to one of your 5 day clinics to get started. That way I could do lot of the work and learn a lot about breaking in. When are you having your next 5 day clinic and how much is it? I'd be coming from Bendigo so do you have accommodation or know somewhere close by where i could stay?
Thanks in advance
Juliet
PS, can I buy a copy of your book?
Juliet I have sent you via email details about the 5 day clinic and accommodation prospects. But you raise an interesting topic regarding breaking in horses at clinics. The Americans call them colt starting classes and they are very common over there, but not so common in Australia. I have only seen Wayne Banney run a colt starting clinic in this country, but there maybe others.
We are happy to help you get your horses started in one of our clinics. But we do not want you to have expectations that your horse will be finished or even going well in only 5 days. Bringing him to a clinic would be only to make a start on the training - not break him in. I have watched many colt starting clinics by people often considered the best in the world at it - such as Ray Hunt, Buck Brannaman, Curt Pate, Bryan Neubert etc. In my view by the end of the clinic, none of the horses have ever been finished being broken in. I have probably seen about 200 horses started in this way and I guess 95% of the owners were not in a position to ride those horses at home without further professional help. It's one thing for somebody like Ray Hunt to say he would take them to a job like branding after being broken in for 3 days, but it's another thing for the rest of us to do the same. Ray would still be breaking them in while he was riding them to rope a steer at the branding.
The small refinements that go into doing a good job when breaking a horse in get overlooked when you are starting them in 3 or 5 days at a clinic. The pressure is on to have them rideable and working at the end of the clinic. But the having the basics done well can take weeks, not days. I will never hold a "colt starting clinic" and I would never take a horse to a "colt starting clinic". But I will help people build the fundamentals that are essential to a well started horse at one of our clinics. This means that for some horses it has taken 5 days to just have them leading well and for other horses we have been riding down the trail after only 5 days.
Hi Ross,
I have been reading your web site and really got a lot out of it. I like your way with the horses and would like you to start my 3 year old QH X gelding. But I want to be involved and was wondering if I could bring him to one of your 5 day clinics to get started. That way I could do lot of the work and learn a lot about breaking in. When are you having your next 5 day clinic and how much is it? I'd be coming from Bendigo so do you have accommodation or know somewhere close by where i could stay?
Thanks in advance
Juliet
PS, can I buy a copy of your book?
Juliet I have sent you via email details about the 5 day clinic and accommodation prospects. But you raise an interesting topic regarding breaking in horses at clinics. The Americans call them colt starting classes and they are very common over there, but not so common in Australia. I have only seen Wayne Banney run a colt starting clinic in this country, but there maybe others.
We are happy to help you get your horses started in one of our clinics. But we do not want you to have expectations that your horse will be finished or even going well in only 5 days. Bringing him to a clinic would be only to make a start on the training - not break him in. I have watched many colt starting clinics by people often considered the best in the world at it - such as Ray Hunt, Buck Brannaman, Curt Pate, Bryan Neubert etc. In my view by the end of the clinic, none of the horses have ever been finished being broken in. I have probably seen about 200 horses started in this way and I guess 95% of the owners were not in a position to ride those horses at home without further professional help. It's one thing for somebody like Ray Hunt to say he would take them to a job like branding after being broken in for 3 days, but it's another thing for the rest of us to do the same. Ray would still be breaking them in while he was riding them to rope a steer at the branding.
The small refinements that go into doing a good job when breaking a horse in get overlooked when you are starting them in 3 or 5 days at a clinic. The pressure is on to have them rideable and working at the end of the clinic. But the having the basics done well can take weeks, not days. I will never hold a "colt starting clinic" and I would never take a horse to a "colt starting clinic". But I will help people build the fundamentals that are essential to a well started horse at one of our clinics. This means that for some horses it has taken 5 days to just have them leading well and for other horses we have been riding down the trail after only 5 days.
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13 June '10
This is such a tragic photograph of one of the victims of the BP oil spill in the Gulf of mexico. It's hard to imagine a worse fate for some of those poor creatures.
I know BP is to blame for the leak, but I think we all must carry some burden of blame too for our inexhaustible thirst for oil and it's products. We all talk about how our dependence on oil is leading us down a road to eventual disaster, but when I look at the amount of unnecessary plastic packaging in our supermarkets and our roads clogged with cars I don't feel any of us are taking it nearly as seriously as it deserves.
Rain
We have had an awful lot of rain in the past week. I measured nearly 50 mm since last weekend! It has caused us some delay with getting horses worked. Even now the arena, yard and paddocks are bogs. But I guess it solves the problem of getting the horses okay with being ridden through puddles. The Kawasaki Mule we bought last week has worked hard this week and we really tested it's ability to handle carrying heavy loads through the mud. I'm glad we had it to ease our backs, but feel a little guilty that it is further proof that Michele and I are not doing all that we could to reduces our thirst for oil.
The Bucking Horse
We had a horse arrive this week with a bucking issue. It's a 14 year old Standardbred gelding that has a pretty sweet disposition. He seems to get very lost when being ridden. He desperately seeks to be somewhere else and the bucking is triggered when the rider gets in the way of his idea to be somewhere else. Helping him to stay focused on the rider is the key to solving his problem. Instead of allowing this horse to mentally wander away and then telling him he can't, the thing to do is not let his mind wander so far before giving him a job that gets his mind back on the rider. This is particularly important when another horse distracts his attention. He can really get fixated on other horses when he is ridden.
I'm sure this horse will come through fine, but it is discouraging that with all his years of riding and handling that he acts like a horse on his first couple of rides. The things I am working on with this horse are the things you expect to be addressing on a young breaker, not a 14 year old veteran.
Foal Training Video
Hi Ross,
Not sure if you have seen this video of foals at Parelli. If every foal had someone invest this time with them then how different life would be for horses.
Click here
Regards
Fiona
Thanks Fiona.
I applaud the message on the clip that handling foals early can be very beneficial to their development and later training. But I have mixed feelings about these types of "feel good" promotional videos. The clip makes it look like handling foals is fun and joyful and everything is lovely. At no point in the film does it tell you what you might do if the foal does not want you to touch it or runs to the end of the paddock if a big green ball shows up or won't follow it's mother into a trailer. I think it can leave an inexperienced person believing that foal training is a fairytale process and if it doesn't turn out like the Parelli tape there must something wrong with the horse or the handler. It's not real.
I can relate a story about a foal owned and bred by a high level and long established Parelli trainer in the US. He showed me how quiet and well handled his foal was when I went around to his place. He had taught it the trick of taking a cigarette from his shirt pocket. At the time I thought the foal was pushy and a little too much in charge. About 6 months after my visit I heard that the foal had bitten his wife on her breast really badly. So handling a foal well is not always about soft guitar music and lovely picturesque scenery. In fact, it's not much different from handling and training an adult horse.
But again I do agree with the notion that we should be handling foals young and offering them good training and experiences from an early age. The old idea of leaving a foal alone until it is ready for the breaker is just making life harder for horse and human.
We have had an awful lot of rain in the past week. I measured nearly 50 mm since last weekend! It has caused us some delay with getting horses worked. Even now the arena, yard and paddocks are bogs. But I guess it solves the problem of getting the horses okay with being ridden through puddles. The Kawasaki Mule we bought last week has worked hard this week and we really tested it's ability to handle carrying heavy loads through the mud. I'm glad we had it to ease our backs, but feel a little guilty that it is further proof that Michele and I are not doing all that we could to reduces our thirst for oil.
The Bucking Horse
We had a horse arrive this week with a bucking issue. It's a 14 year old Standardbred gelding that has a pretty sweet disposition. He seems to get very lost when being ridden. He desperately seeks to be somewhere else and the bucking is triggered when the rider gets in the way of his idea to be somewhere else. Helping him to stay focused on the rider is the key to solving his problem. Instead of allowing this horse to mentally wander away and then telling him he can't, the thing to do is not let his mind wander so far before giving him a job that gets his mind back on the rider. This is particularly important when another horse distracts his attention. He can really get fixated on other horses when he is ridden.
I'm sure this horse will come through fine, but it is discouraging that with all his years of riding and handling that he acts like a horse on his first couple of rides. The things I am working on with this horse are the things you expect to be addressing on a young breaker, not a 14 year old veteran.
Foal Training Video
Hi Ross,
Not sure if you have seen this video of foals at Parelli. If every foal had someone invest this time with them then how different life would be for horses.
Click here
Regards
Fiona
Thanks Fiona.
I applaud the message on the clip that handling foals early can be very beneficial to their development and later training. But I have mixed feelings about these types of "feel good" promotional videos. The clip makes it look like handling foals is fun and joyful and everything is lovely. At no point in the film does it tell you what you might do if the foal does not want you to touch it or runs to the end of the paddock if a big green ball shows up or won't follow it's mother into a trailer. I think it can leave an inexperienced person believing that foal training is a fairytale process and if it doesn't turn out like the Parelli tape there must something wrong with the horse or the handler. It's not real.
I can relate a story about a foal owned and bred by a high level and long established Parelli trainer in the US. He showed me how quiet and well handled his foal was when I went around to his place. He had taught it the trick of taking a cigarette from his shirt pocket. At the time I thought the foal was pushy and a little too much in charge. About 6 months after my visit I heard that the foal had bitten his wife on her breast really badly. So handling a foal well is not always about soft guitar music and lovely picturesque scenery. In fact, it's not much different from handling and training an adult horse.
But again I do agree with the notion that we should be handling foals young and offering them good training and experiences from an early age. The old idea of leaving a foal alone until it is ready for the breaker is just making life harder for horse and human.
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11 June '10
I would be very interested to have a glimpse into the mind of the person who asked the question "how can I combine show jumping with rollerblading?"
Seville Clinic
Des Miller has informed me that there are still a some places available for the 1 day clinic in Seville on June 26. If anybody is interested in more information please contact Des. Her details are on the schedule page.
Fixing A Problem Before It Happens vs Not Letting A Horse Make Mistakes
I have been thinking about the importance of allowing a horse to make a mistake. I see many people try to prevent their horses from getting it wrong. I sometimes call this "putting them in a box". I was reminded just in the past couple of days how common it is for us to stop a horse from exploring his options and nip in the bud anything a horse might try which we don't want.
The question that comes to my mind is that if we don't let our horse try something, how does he know it is right or wrong? It seems to me that only by exploring an option and then having the rider make that not work out nearly so well as the option we did want him to try, that a horse can learn what works best for him. Let him test his idea and find out that he could try something that works better. I have said all this before, but I see some confusion in people between fixing things from falling apart before they fall apart and preventing a horse from exploring wrong answers.
When I am working with a horse I try my best to be ahead of the trouble. As I feel a horse getting ready to have a thought I don't want him to have or making preparations with his body to do something I don't want him to do, I try to intervene early to get a change of thought and head off the trouble. But this is not the same thing as stopping a horse from exploring alternative ideas. For example, if I am riding a circle and I feel my horse look to the outside or sense he is about to drift from the line that the circumference of the circle makes, I might to do something that puts his thought back on that line. But some people might keep a firm contact on the outside rein for the entire circle whether the horse is going to drift away or not, to prevent him from exploring the option of leaking out of the circle. They expect he might execute a crooked circle and never let him find out for himself that it's not a good idea. He never learns to travel straight in his circles without being confined between the reins. Being balanced and correct on the circle is never his idea, it is just something that is imposed on him by the outside rein.
Another common example is when a rider flexes their horse's head around to them as they go to mount. It is most often done just in case the horse attempts to walk away as the rider mounts. But I feel that if I let my horse explore walking away and then I bend him around until he stops moving and softens to the rein, he will learn that life is a lot easier for him if he just stands quietly while I get in the saddle. Walking away is not a good option because the idiot human makes him bend and disengage his hindquarters - it's just all too much work for the poor horse - so he stops walking off. But to bend a horse's head around just because he might move seems to me to be telling a horse to bend for no reason. He still doesn't know that moving while the rider mounts is the wrong response. He just knows that when the rider gets on he is suppose to flex around. But because he was flexed around even before he had the thought to move, there is no reason he would associate that walking away when being mounted caused him to bent around by the rider and therefore moving his feet was a bad idea. Moving and being bent around are two disconnected events.
The difference between stopping a horse from making wrong choices and fixing a problem early may appear to be quite small. Perhaps I haven't explained it properly. It seems a hard concept for some people to grasp. But I think to the horse there is a very real and big difference. In the final outcome I believe horses that have learned by being allowed to make mistakes are horses that have more confidence in following a rider's direction. They are also capable of being okay without a rider micro managing their every movement. So many times Michele and I see horses that have a lot of formal education in dressage and jumping that almost fall apart when trotted around on a loose rein. They don't know what to do and often get frantic by the lack of directing. These horses are constantly ridden in a box and never allowed to explore the alternative responses. When they are given the freedom to make decisions with little input from a rider it worries them and they can become really lost. It's very sad to see because most of them probably didn't have these problems when they were broken in.
Des Miller has informed me that there are still a some places available for the 1 day clinic in Seville on June 26. If anybody is interested in more information please contact Des. Her details are on the schedule page.
Fixing A Problem Before It Happens vs Not Letting A Horse Make Mistakes
I have been thinking about the importance of allowing a horse to make a mistake. I see many people try to prevent their horses from getting it wrong. I sometimes call this "putting them in a box". I was reminded just in the past couple of days how common it is for us to stop a horse from exploring his options and nip in the bud anything a horse might try which we don't want.
The question that comes to my mind is that if we don't let our horse try something, how does he know it is right or wrong? It seems to me that only by exploring an option and then having the rider make that not work out nearly so well as the option we did want him to try, that a horse can learn what works best for him. Let him test his idea and find out that he could try something that works better. I have said all this before, but I see some confusion in people between fixing things from falling apart before they fall apart and preventing a horse from exploring wrong answers.
When I am working with a horse I try my best to be ahead of the trouble. As I feel a horse getting ready to have a thought I don't want him to have or making preparations with his body to do something I don't want him to do, I try to intervene early to get a change of thought and head off the trouble. But this is not the same thing as stopping a horse from exploring alternative ideas. For example, if I am riding a circle and I feel my horse look to the outside or sense he is about to drift from the line that the circumference of the circle makes, I might to do something that puts his thought back on that line. But some people might keep a firm contact on the outside rein for the entire circle whether the horse is going to drift away or not, to prevent him from exploring the option of leaking out of the circle. They expect he might execute a crooked circle and never let him find out for himself that it's not a good idea. He never learns to travel straight in his circles without being confined between the reins. Being balanced and correct on the circle is never his idea, it is just something that is imposed on him by the outside rein.
Another common example is when a rider flexes their horse's head around to them as they go to mount. It is most often done just in case the horse attempts to walk away as the rider mounts. But I feel that if I let my horse explore walking away and then I bend him around until he stops moving and softens to the rein, he will learn that life is a lot easier for him if he just stands quietly while I get in the saddle. Walking away is not a good option because the idiot human makes him bend and disengage his hindquarters - it's just all too much work for the poor horse - so he stops walking off. But to bend a horse's head around just because he might move seems to me to be telling a horse to bend for no reason. He still doesn't know that moving while the rider mounts is the wrong response. He just knows that when the rider gets on he is suppose to flex around. But because he was flexed around even before he had the thought to move, there is no reason he would associate that walking away when being mounted caused him to bent around by the rider and therefore moving his feet was a bad idea. Moving and being bent around are two disconnected events.
The difference between stopping a horse from making wrong choices and fixing a problem early may appear to be quite small. Perhaps I haven't explained it properly. It seems a hard concept for some people to grasp. But I think to the horse there is a very real and big difference. In the final outcome I believe horses that have learned by being allowed to make mistakes are horses that have more confidence in following a rider's direction. They are also capable of being okay without a rider micro managing their every movement. So many times Michele and I see horses that have a lot of formal education in dressage and jumping that almost fall apart when trotted around on a loose rein. They don't know what to do and often get frantic by the lack of directing. These horses are constantly ridden in a box and never allowed to explore the alternative responses. When they are given the freedom to make decisions with little input from a rider it worries them and they can become really lost. It's very sad to see because most of them probably didn't have these problems when they were broken in.
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8 June '10
It's been an incredibly busy few days which is why it has been several days since I last posted.
Michele arrived back on Sunday and she looks great. She came home with nearly 500 photos and lots of stories. I'm glad she had such a good time, but it's wonderful to have her home. Our dog, Snazzy felt the same way because she almost killed Michele with love when she saw her. Me and the animals all agreed that life is so much better with Michele in it.
Our latest acquisition arrived yesterday - it's a Kawasaki Mule all terrain vehicle. Harry has owned one for a long time and we have yearned to own one for just as long. Finally, we have one and it has already proved its worth. I reckon in a week we will wonder how we ever got along without it.
The Difference Between a Horseman and a Rider
I was thinking about how so many people have years of training in becoming a good rider, yet so few are good horsemen (or women). Recently I witnessed a well known and very successful rider working a young horse. The horse was quite a handful just to lead to the arena. There was a lot of leaping around and pulling away. When the horse got to their arena, the rider immediately saddled up and leapt on and rode off. The horse was instantly expected to carry itself in a frame and be very forward. Quite a lot of pressure was put on the horse to submit to the rein and leg aids from the start.
I have no problem with the fact that the rider expected her horse to listen and give to the aids. But I was really surprised that no consideration was given to the fact that the horse was clearly as tight as a violin string. It did not seem to be any concern to this esteemed rider that the horse was a mental basket case. The only thing that was important was that the horse obey the seat, legs and reins.
The little I know about the rider in question indicates that the thing they are good at is riding. They know nothing about ground work. They know nothing about settling a horse's mental state or working with a horse or directing a thought. The know nothing about teaching a horse to lead or go onto a float or to tie up or to stand still. They know nothing teaching anything very much except to submit and give in. Their approach is to bully a horse into a response because that's all they know - not how to teach a response
Unfortunately this is not so uncommon. It is my experience that many of the most successful riders competing at all levels have little experience or skill at the basics of horsemanship beyond what they may have learned at pony club. I find this amazing, but true. I'm not picking on the one person that I happened to see recently, because I have seen it all my life - especially when I was competing on the show circuit.
It appears that as long as a horse is competitive enough for a placing at an event, whatever else they may do outside the competition is not so important.
But what I don't understand is how anybody can expect a horse that is spending such a large part of its energy fighting and resisting the rider to be performing at it's best? Even if it is beating the rest of the field, it can't be doing the best it has to offer. It must be falling short of it's potential.
A few months ago a rising star in the competition world described himself as a rider and me as a horseman. I took it as a complement, but I still can't quite work out how a person can be a rider without being a horseman. I wouldn't want to just ride horses if I couldn't get along with them pretty well.
The Beginning of Teaching Lateral Movements
Hello Ross
Hope your are coping without Michele, Hope she is having a wonderful time. Is she back yet? I believe she said she was only going for 10 days?
Two questions;
Because the paddocks are boggy on my property the most I can do with Nicky is an active walk, sometimes I can have abit of a trot but it is quite yuck and she tends to trip so I have resorted to just wandering around and making sure that she yields to the rein softly. So that I was not boring her and myself for that matter I thought I would try to get her to cross her forehand by responding to my leg which she has not been taught and I believe that I was confusing her because she was stepping forward not to the side. The thing is she was trying to do something just not what I was asking so stopping her and asking again over and over just caused her some anxiety and she let me know with a little buck. I stopped persisting as I was not being clear caused her confusion. Is this something you could explain in an email?
Does Nicky need supplements or is she lacking something? On the weekend I observed Nicky having a nibble on Prince's freshly laid manure patch, I have never seen this before, do you have any thoughts?
Just to let you know I have been putting Prince's jacket on him for the last two weeks and he has been quite good with it, don't know how he would go if it got snagged but then again don't know how Nicky would go if she got snagged, take it off him when I go home just incase. Funny thing is that he doesn't mind his jacket but he doesn't like Nicky with her jacket on. He chases her around the big paddock trying to rip it off with his teeth. He chased her around for about fifteen minutes, at first I though I would let them sort it out but he was harassing her so much that I had to go get her and take it off, they were both a dripping mess from all the chasing. Maybe he has the same thought on jackets as you do :)
Kindest Regards
Irena
In order to get a horse to step to the side rather than just go forward you need to stop or slow down the forward. A horse's first reaction will normally be to go more forward when you use more inside leg. It's to be expect at this stage. But in order to turn the energy for forward into an energy for side ways you need to do 2 things. First you must either inhibit or prevent all together the forward movement. If you want a diagonal side ways movement then you slow down or partially inhibit the forward. But if you want a lateral step 90 deg to the direction of forward, then you have to totally stop the forward steps. The second part is that once you have blocked or partially blocked the forward you now have to give the horse somewhere else to go. If you don't he may rear or back up or something else you don't want. Let's say you want your horse to move laterally to the right. Once you close down the forward movement, open up your right rein to the side while using your left rein to keep a small left bend in the your horse. You may need to keep some life in him and have to use some leg too to prevent him from stalling. There is balance between the forward and sideways movement that your reins need to juggle. At first accept any little try. You might find at first that he moves his front feet sideways, but not his hind feet. - that's okay for now. Build on any little try. It's important that your horse gets a clear signal that a side ways movment is what is being asked for, so if he continues to push forwards without any lateral energy you must shut down the forward totally until you get at least a shift of weight that might be a preparation to step laterally. Don't allow your horse to push forward through the reins - even if you are wanting a diagonal movement (ie, forward and sideways at the same time).
That's the essentials of teaching the beginnings of lateral work. But there are many ways that people use to help get it started. For example, some people face their horse to a fence or wall and use the aids I just mentioned to teach the side ways movement. Having your horse face a fence or wall takes the worry out of trying to inhibit the forward movement. But it can make a little harder for later on when you are trying to teach 3 track lateral movements (a topic for another time). Other people prefer to begin on the circle or a turn in the corner and use the outside rein and inside leg to encourage a horse to leak out of the turn. This has the advantage of being more like the work you might want to do later on when he is more established such as teaching shoulder in, traver etc. So the transition to more advanced lateral work is smoother IMO. Often I begin teaching this work through demi volte and back to the track - which is sort of begins with a small half circle and a diagonal side pass back to the track.
There are many ways to do the same thing, but they all being with having your horse really soft and responsive to the reins with both his forehand and his hindquarters.
re: the supplements. I think only a blood analysis can tell you if your horse is mineral deficient. If she is looking poor and you have concerns have her checked out.
I'm glad Prince has taken to the rug okay.
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3 June '10
Teaching The Response To The Rider’s Leg
Yesterday I was discussing with a client about using the legs to ask a horse to move when you first start riding them. Some people seem to assume that it is natural that a horse would go forward when the rider nudges them with the legs. It's like that it was hard wired in utero for a horse to understand that leg means forward. Of course, this is not true. When a horse begins it's life with a rider on board, there is nothing that has prepared it for knowing that when the rider uses the legs against its side that it should move forward. The response to the rider's leg needs to be taught - like anything else.
A lot of trainers will use methods like simultaneously slapping the horse with a rope around its hindquarters and applying leg to motivate a horse to move. Some trainers will throw hands, seat and legs at the horse simultaneously to get him to move - like you might see a jockey riding a horse to finish line. Others will thump the horse's sides with their legs with all they have and even jab spurs into the horse to make the go. All these methods can work. They can get the horse to move. But the thing they all have in common is that they put a flee into a horse. When the horse is first being ridden and moves in response to a slap on the rump or jab with a spur, he does so to escape from the pressure. He is frightened into moving. It does not come from searching through his options, but from a reaction to a sudden, strong pressure. In time and with enough repetition the horse will learn to respond to a rider's leg. He can learn not to get frightened, but to respond in a way that he is confident he knows the answer. But there is always a percentage of horses that the worry about a rider's leg pressure persists all their life. Some of these over react to the leg and rush forward. These horses often struggle to find a steady rhythm because there is a constant hurry in them. Other horses become very resentful of the rider's leg and will often pin their ears or try to bite the ride on the leg or will cow kick with one hind leg when the rider applies leg pressure. There are a variety of reactions this type of horse can give. But in the end it often stems from the way they were taught to move forward off the rider's leg.
Teaching a horse to respond correctly to a rider's leg should be done in steps and not rushed. This is one area where the notion of accepting the smallest try is particularly important. For a horse there is a big difference between using enough force to cause a horse to move and using enough pressure to motivate him to search for what to do. This is one of the areas where allowing a horse to search will never be a mistake. You have to do enough to cause him to search through his options, but not so much that he is scared into moving. Plenty of preparation from the ground can be very helpful. For example you might stand beside your horse and gently bump him with the stirrup to encourage him to try something. If he is experimenting with his options there is no need to be firmer, just wait until he gives you what you want and the stop bumping. If he is staring out across the paddock at his mates, then you might need to bump a little firmer until he tries something else. This can really help a horse make the transition of something bumping against his side meaning to go forward, when a rider is on top.
Horses are their own worst enemy. I say this because they are so amazingly submissive and compliant that they will still sort of do what we want and sort of still be safe to ride even when we do a crap job of training them. They allow us to be really bad horse people and get away with it. If they were less submissive and more demanding on us there would be a lot fewer professional trainers and hardly any riders.
Rosie From Darwin
Hi Ross,
Just thought I would write and give you an update on Rosie (who you called 'Connie' as she is a Connemara pony), who you started under saddle for me back in 2008. At the time I had thought she was 3 1/2 years old, but on tracking down stallion return to have her registered, she was actually only 2 1/2 at the time!!
Last year, since her arrival up here in Darwin with me, I worked her fairly lightly. Usually 3 or four rides a week, which included some arena (dressage) work, and riding out, and some lunging. Initially I had quite some difficulty with transitions from trot to canter in the arena, so left any canter work and transitions to when we were riding out. We have overcome this though, although she can still be a little sticky when the mood takes her. She will always have an opinion I think!!
This year I have been taking her to Darwin Horse and Pony Club rallies, and she has been a great pony for this. She competed with me in an adults games team in the Northern Sheilds competition, and has also done flatwork, jumping and horse soccer at the rallies. If my 6 year old son wanted to ride at Pony Club, he rode her with me leading, and he has also attended a couple of shows with me leading her, including fancy dress classes in which he is a pirate, and Rosie is dressed up as the pirate ship 'The Black Pearl'. For a young pony, she really has done a lot, and does it well.
I shall attach a few photos of her for you.
Tearna
Thank you so much for the update. It's wonderful to hear that Connie is so loved and getting lots of attention. It doesn't surprise me that you have had some issue with her transitions because I do remember that she hd a natural tendency to not be very forward. Besides who wants to be in a hurry to go anywhere in the heat and humidity of Darwin. She probably thinks you're crazy for wanting her to rush anywhere.
She looks fantastic and you look like you are enjoying riding her. I really like the beach photo. It's a hoot to ride along a beach. Thanks again and please stay in touch. I hope if you ever get down this way that you'll drop by for a cuppa.
Hi Ross,
I just read the letter from Judy re Mud Fever on your blog, and I wanted to help. I have been battling with mud fever on Pru this year as you know, and I have tried numerous remedies without success. This included 2 x antibiotics from the vet, creams from O/S, and I also tried your remedy and I found that it was too severe for her already sensitive skin.
I was at my wits end until I decided to ring Robyn Gooze – a lady that advertises in Horse Deals about a remedy she has for mud fever. Robyn was most helpful and got the remedy out to me asap and has kept in touch with me to see how Pru is going. I will let your readers be the judge, but the photos says it all, and this is only after a week.
Anyone who is having problems with mud fever / photosensitivity, give Robyn a call – you won’t regret it!!! Robyn phone number is 07 5478 9919
Des
Thanks Des. I am happy to pass along this information.
It seems everybody I talk to has a recipe for treating mud fever/rain scald. I tried several approaches before a friend put me onto the treatment I suggested. It worked a treat for Six, but as you found out it may not be the best method for every horse and there are more ways to tackle the problem.
Thanks again.
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1 June '10
I have added the Soap Box from May into the archives and you can access them by clicking on the link in the sidebar. I have also added a new story to the Story page.
It seems to be the season for horses that are into self mutilation. Birch has cut the front of her hock in a fence and a client's horse has acquired it's second hoof abscess in 2 weeks. I'm just waiting for Six or Riley to find an excuse as to why they shouldn't be saddled!
Mounting A Horse
Since I was discussing methods for mounting and safety issues last week I came across this clip from YouTube. I am so impressed by this technique that I am thinking of including it in our teaching.
All I can say is "what a super patient horse"!
Save The Kimberley Brumbies
Hi Ross,
I hope this email finds you well, and not *too* over-worked in Michele's absence!
Apologies in advance, as I don't normally forward things, but I received this email tonight and wondered if you could please help spread the word to help the plight of these horses?
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/save-kimberleys-wild-horses/
Regards,
Miriam
I don't know anything about this cause, so I don't know if I am for or against. However, I am happy to post it and let people make up their own minds.
Mud Fever
Dear Ross,
My horse has what I thought at first was mud fever. I had used lots of suggested remedies, which all worked temporarily, but did not keep it at bay for very long. The vet came and took the scabs off twice after sedating our horse and the horse had quite a few jars of predniderm slathered on him. He also had his legs washed, gladwrapped and scabs removed as well as we could. I bandaged his legs every night. This just made his legs itch more and he learned how to get the bandages off within an hour of them being put on! I persevered for 9 months but after that gave up and the scabs all came back!
The vet said it was photosensitive dermatitis and to keep the sun off his legs. I have put covers on his leg that are like float boots but made of mesh. Thought these were working, but found that because the scabs obviously get itchy, he could scratch them with his other hoof, get the scabs off and because there was not good air circulation around them, when I went to take the wrap off, I would find pussy scabs instead of dry hard ones!
These scabs made it hard for him to be shod so I took his shoes off. He is a thoroughbred but is managing ok and of course he now has good hoof growth too.
Do you think the remedy on your website would help this condition? It would be nice to relieve this old boy of rotten itchy old scabs. He was a rescue horse rescued by Project Hope Horse Welfare Victoria (Australia) and is now nearly 20 years old. He deserves to have a bit of a break from these scabs - well I think so anyway!
Regards
Judy
I have never had any luck with predniderm.
I don't know if the remedy will cure your fellow or not, but it seems worth a try. I found you need to do it every day for awhile until just about all the scabs are falling off with just a light rub. Then you can go to every other day until it is all cleared up. Try to ensure his legs stay dry because water is the enemy and will just bring back the mud fever. It's a cheap treatment and worked great for Six.
Good luck and let me know if it worked for your boy or not.
Canter Leads, Slipping Saddle and Stride Distances
Hi Ross (Amanda here)
So who is the main cook, you or Michele? Got lots of invites, so you dont have to cook?
Just thought I would say G'day as it has been raining up here! Nearly two inches in a few days!
It has rained enough for me not to ride ,since Meg and I need a good surface that is not slippery, as she is providing me with some challenges. Wont go in to them here, just yet, and I might ring you one day. All I need to say though is I need to work on keeping her focus with me which can be damned difficult.
Also I need to work out what's going on with my saddle. it definitely slips to one side on Meg and needs more stuffing as one of her shoulders is alot less muscled than the other. I wonder if that is because she prefers (or why she prefers) cantering one the one lead 99.9% of the time and is very difficult to get to canter on the right lead going clockwise. It seems to be a fluke when she does get the correct lead. I almost break out in applause for her when it happens! This is in regard to free lunge in the yard.
Is there a way to help encourage the correct lead?
**Anyway, just thought i would comment that I am puzzled with what to say when people are forever asking me what I do with my horses.
I usually answer, "Oh nothing really, just trying to get better at handling and riding them...Pleasure riding I guess.." They look at me vaguely... Some people think I am so experienced because I have had horses forever! Ha! And that I should be competing in something!
I really would like to do alot of different things but I would really like to have a bit of knowledge before I start doiing something I have no idea about!
Anyway, I really want to get a clinic happening up here for my and Meg's sake mostly and then of course secondly to promote your cause!!
I am going to join a western pleasure club that also has a cutting show annually. I am not into cutting, but i love watching except for the extreme pressure that they put those tendons under! They hold a few clinics of different people so maybe I can infiltrate.....
They have good facilites where you can go in between times at no cost to work your horse with only another member having to be present for safety reasons. It is only 20km up the road and 1/3 cheaper than adult riding club.
I would really like to know why they train their horses (seems cruel to me) to go dizzy by making them spin around and around and around and around about six or seven times and then stop dead. That's what I want to know . I would just like to take Meg when I am ready to take her and do their western trail thing which is pretty basic stuff. Bridge, barrels, poles and gate open and close!
Just a question: how do you know at what spacing to put down poles for walk trot canter?
The horses the other day when i watched, had to maintain their trot speed through fairly short spacings. I am going to ask what their set space is, although everyone apparently measures them out in their own different size feet spacings! Does it matter what the spacing distance is?
Cheers,
Amanda
You may need to consider that the saddle slipping to one side and the problem of Meg not taking a right canter lead are the same thing. Most horses are crooked to some extent. This means they work one side of their body harder than the other and leads to more muscle development of one side over the other. This can cause a saddle to shift and a horse to favour one canter lead over another. The answer is to get her work more evenly and stop being crooked. You'll know that she is stiffer when you turn or circle one way as opposed to the opposite direction. This is probably where you need to begin addressing the issue. The only way I know to get a horse to straighten up is to bend them. The freer they are on their bends the straighter they are when you ride a line. Getting a horse straighter will reduce the resistance a horse has when you ask for a canter lead on their hard side. The principle is really very simple. Get her turns and bends softer and more accurate and the unevenness will diminish over time and the canter lead issue will take care of itself. Even if the rider is the problem, when you have a horse less resistance in a left or right bend you are also fixing the rider because the rider needs to get out the horse's way to make it possible. I hope that makes sense.
I think joining the western club is a great idea. It will give you exposure to some new ideas and also provide you with some projects to work on at home. It can be a real incentive to work your horse when you know you have a club meeting coming up. I don't know much about western disciplines, so I can't tell you about why reiners require such fast spins. I guess it is to show off the horse's ability to spin which in part can make him a useful cow horse. Most of the movements come from working cow horse requirements - just like dressage movements originated from war horse and ceremonial horse movements. I have helped a few people improve their spins, but there is no way I am an expert at this type of training.
The distance between poles needed for trot and canter work will depend on your horse. That's why most people pace the distance out to suit each individual. There are some standard distances that you can find in just about any book on jumping or cavelleti training. For example, for a 16hh horse trotting over a 6" cavelleti the distance between cavelletis should be 6'. To canter over the same cavelletis the distance should be 12'. But for a 13hh horse the distances should be 5' and 10' respectfully. These are only approximate distances. But if you want to have an extended stride or a shortened stride or you want 2 strides between cavelletis you have adjust the distances to accomodate.
Let us know if you have enough interest in a clinic at Tatura. We'd be happy to come, but will need a fair amount of notice.
Save The Kimberley Brumbies
Hi Ross,
I hope this email finds you well, and not *too* over-worked in Michele's absence!
Apologies in advance, as I don't normally forward things, but I received this email tonight and wondered if you could please help spread the word to help the plight of these horses?
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/save-kimberleys-wild-horses/
Regards,
Miriam
I don't know anything about this cause, so I don't know if I am for or against. However, I am happy to post it and let people make up their own minds.
Mud Fever
Dear Ross,
My horse has what I thought at first was mud fever. I had used lots of suggested remedies, which all worked temporarily, but did not keep it at bay for very long. The vet came and took the scabs off twice after sedating our horse and the horse had quite a few jars of predniderm slathered on him. He also had his legs washed, gladwrapped and scabs removed as well as we could. I bandaged his legs every night. This just made his legs itch more and he learned how to get the bandages off within an hour of them being put on! I persevered for 9 months but after that gave up and the scabs all came back!
The vet said it was photosensitive dermatitis and to keep the sun off his legs. I have put covers on his leg that are like float boots but made of mesh. Thought these were working, but found that because the scabs obviously get itchy, he could scratch them with his other hoof, get the scabs off and because there was not good air circulation around them, when I went to take the wrap off, I would find pussy scabs instead of dry hard ones!
These scabs made it hard for him to be shod so I took his shoes off. He is a thoroughbred but is managing ok and of course he now has good hoof growth too.
Do you think the remedy on your website would help this condition? It would be nice to relieve this old boy of rotten itchy old scabs. He was a rescue horse rescued by Project Hope Horse Welfare Victoria (Australia) and is now nearly 20 years old. He deserves to have a bit of a break from these scabs - well I think so anyway!
Regards
Judy
I have never had any luck with predniderm.
I don't know if the remedy will cure your fellow or not, but it seems worth a try. I found you need to do it every day for awhile until just about all the scabs are falling off with just a light rub. Then you can go to every other day until it is all cleared up. Try to ensure his legs stay dry because water is the enemy and will just bring back the mud fever. It's a cheap treatment and worked great for Six.
Good luck and let me know if it worked for your boy or not.
Canter Leads, Slipping Saddle and Stride Distances
Hi Ross (Amanda here)
So who is the main cook, you or Michele? Got lots of invites, so you dont have to cook?
Just thought I would say G'day as it has been raining up here! Nearly two inches in a few days!
It has rained enough for me not to ride ,since Meg and I need a good surface that is not slippery, as she is providing me with some challenges. Wont go in to them here, just yet, and I might ring you one day. All I need to say though is I need to work on keeping her focus with me which can be damned difficult.
Also I need to work out what's going on with my saddle. it definitely slips to one side on Meg and needs more stuffing as one of her shoulders is alot less muscled than the other. I wonder if that is because she prefers (or why she prefers) cantering one the one lead 99.9% of the time and is very difficult to get to canter on the right lead going clockwise. It seems to be a fluke when she does get the correct lead. I almost break out in applause for her when it happens! This is in regard to free lunge in the yard.
Is there a way to help encourage the correct lead?
**Anyway, just thought i would comment that I am puzzled with what to say when people are forever asking me what I do with my horses.
I usually answer, "Oh nothing really, just trying to get better at handling and riding them...Pleasure riding I guess.." They look at me vaguely... Some people think I am so experienced because I have had horses forever! Ha! And that I should be competing in something!
I really would like to do alot of different things but I would really like to have a bit of knowledge before I start doiing something I have no idea about!
Anyway, I really want to get a clinic happening up here for my and Meg's sake mostly and then of course secondly to promote your cause!!
I am going to join a western pleasure club that also has a cutting show annually. I am not into cutting, but i love watching except for the extreme pressure that they put those tendons under! They hold a few clinics of different people so maybe I can infiltrate.....
They have good facilites where you can go in between times at no cost to work your horse with only another member having to be present for safety reasons. It is only 20km up the road and 1/3 cheaper than adult riding club.
I would really like to know why they train their horses (seems cruel to me) to go dizzy by making them spin around and around and around and around about six or seven times and then stop dead. That's what I want to know . I would just like to take Meg when I am ready to take her and do their western trail thing which is pretty basic stuff. Bridge, barrels, poles and gate open and close!
Just a question: how do you know at what spacing to put down poles for walk trot canter?
The horses the other day when i watched, had to maintain their trot speed through fairly short spacings. I am going to ask what their set space is, although everyone apparently measures them out in their own different size feet spacings! Does it matter what the spacing distance is?
Cheers,
Amanda
You may need to consider that the saddle slipping to one side and the problem of Meg not taking a right canter lead are the same thing. Most horses are crooked to some extent. This means they work one side of their body harder than the other and leads to more muscle development of one side over the other. This can cause a saddle to shift and a horse to favour one canter lead over another. The answer is to get her work more evenly and stop being crooked. You'll know that she is stiffer when you turn or circle one way as opposed to the opposite direction. This is probably where you need to begin addressing the issue. The only way I know to get a horse to straighten up is to bend them. The freer they are on their bends the straighter they are when you ride a line. Getting a horse straighter will reduce the resistance a horse has when you ask for a canter lead on their hard side. The principle is really very simple. Get her turns and bends softer and more accurate and the unevenness will diminish over time and the canter lead issue will take care of itself. Even if the rider is the problem, when you have a horse less resistance in a left or right bend you are also fixing the rider because the rider needs to get out the horse's way to make it possible. I hope that makes sense.
I think joining the western club is a great idea. It will give you exposure to some new ideas and also provide you with some projects to work on at home. It can be a real incentive to work your horse when you know you have a club meeting coming up. I don't know much about western disciplines, so I can't tell you about why reiners require such fast spins. I guess it is to show off the horse's ability to spin which in part can make him a useful cow horse. Most of the movements come from working cow horse requirements - just like dressage movements originated from war horse and ceremonial horse movements. I have helped a few people improve their spins, but there is no way I am an expert at this type of training.
The distance between poles needed for trot and canter work will depend on your horse. That's why most people pace the distance out to suit each individual. There are some standard distances that you can find in just about any book on jumping or cavelleti training. For example, for a 16hh horse trotting over a 6" cavelleti the distance between cavelletis should be 6'. To canter over the same cavelletis the distance should be 12'. But for a 13hh horse the distances should be 5' and 10' respectfully. These are only approximate distances. But if you want to have an extended stride or a shortened stride or you want 2 strides between cavelletis you have adjust the distances to accomodate.
Let us know if you have enough interest in a clinic at Tatura. We'd be happy to come, but will need a fair amount of notice.
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