Ross' Soap Box

Michele has just arrived in Chicago for her reunion dinner. She was editor-in-chief of her high school year book and there is a reunion tonight of all the staff that put the year book together. She is having a hoot meeting up with lots of friends she hasn't seen in years. Here she is holding her year book from 1987, taken just a few days ago.

BTW, don't laugh at her hat. I did once - never again! She made it herself and is very proud of it and how much it keeps her warm.

Searching Facility

I have added a search facility for this site to the side bar of the home page. You can now type in a word and it will search the goodhorsemanship web site only, using the google search engine. I haven't yet had a chance to test it thoroughly, so let me know if you have any problems. Hopefully it will work better than the last version I tried a few months ago.

The Key To Calm, Healthy Horses

This is the title of a book by Jenny Paterson BSc that was lent to me by a friend. She has a web site called horsemanshipnz.com if you want to check her out.

The book outlines the problems that apparently grasses can cause horses. She attributes an awful lot of both behaviourial and physical problems that we have with horses to the grasses and legumes they eat. She asserts that spooking, rearing, bucking, colic, skin problems, mud fever, head shaking, staggers etc are all caused by what a horse eats. She names the main culprits as rye grass, tall fescue, paspalum and clover.

The author writes in depth about why she believes these grasses and clover cause problems and how to solve them. But she does not actually give one piece of evidence for her claim. She cites no scientific studies showing cause and effect. She does not even give any reference to the literature to indicate where she gets her information from. The reader is not directed to any source to check her claims.

I seriously doubt Ms Paterson's claims, but unless I spend the time doing library searches I have no solid basis to either agree or disagree with her. There is just no information. I suspect this is why her book is self published since I am sure any reputable publisher would require her to provide some evidence for her assertions.

I am reminded a lot of the books of Hildrud Strasser who published claims that horse shoes caused serious hoof damage. Like Ms Paterson, Dr Strasser also used pseudo science to attempt to bamboozle the general horse public that she had scientific evidence. But even today the evidence is not available despite her promise 10 years ago that she was gathering the scientific proof at the time.

It bothers me greatly that people make claims they can't substantiate. When it comes to treating horses that buck or have colic problems or whatever, people like Ms Paterson are suggesting they rip up their paddocks and sow a different pasture without having to prove their claim. She makes only passing mention that problems can be caused by other factors.

I hope Ms Paterson will continue her research. But instead of trying to fast talk theory into fact that she actually does the work of substantiating her ideas through careful scientific study.

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Michele left yesterday for the US and should be landing in California this morning our time. Thanks to everybody who have contacted us to wish her a good trip.

What To Do?

We came into contact recently with a lady who rides dressage and has ambitions to do very well. She has two talented horses that show all the physical attributes of competing at a very high level. One is a young horse and the other is several years further along. The lady has had a lot of help from reputable dressage coaches over the years, but she sees that things are not right with her horses. She feels that she has gone as far as she can with the older horse because he appears to be shutting down and no longer has a try - even though he clearly is capable of much more than he is giving right now. The younger horse is very impressive and going through the ranks at lightening speed. He gets a lot of praise from judges. Yet the horse can be very inconsistent and spits the dummy with rearing and bucking at times. He has quite a fragile mind due to him always being on the edge of what his emotions can handle.

She asked us for help. Our advice was to go back several steps with both horses. Go back to what they already know easily and re-do it in a way that helps the horses feel better and more relaxed about what they know. The problem is that this means putting the competition ambitions on hold for awhile while the horse learn to handle the work with less anxiety. I don't think that would be an issue for the owner if she could be sure that it was the way to go. She doesn't want to lose a year or so doing something to help the horses and then find out it was wrong. She knows things are not right, but isn't sure what she should do.

This is a dilemma for many people who face the issue of having troubled horses. It's impossible to be sure that any path you take with a horse is the correct one until you get to the other side of the problems. But what is certain for many of us is that something must change. The direction our training is taking leads to a dead end. If something is not working there is no point in continuing down that road. You have to try something.

In the case of the lady I just mentioned, her instructor advised her to sell the young horse because he is too fractious for the work. He mentally can't cope with the training. But it seems to me that the obvious thing to do is to change the training to make it less mentally taxing. For this horse it appears that the instructor believes that the horse has the responsibility of adapting to the training program rather than the training program being adapted to the needs of the horse. I think this is a common phenomena when somebody trains horses according to a system. They tend to view the system as being right and the horses being wrong. Just look at how many people believe that the German Training Scale is an infallible approach to training dressage horses. But that's a different topic for another time.

Anytime a horse experiences anxiety over an exercise or work program, there will be resistance and undesirable behaviours. If the anxiety is ignored, it doesn't just go away. It either persists or gets worse. Some trainers just continue to push through the trouble and expect the horse to learn to be okay with it. What is important to these trainers is that the horse is doing the movement and not so much how he feels about the work. But the anxiety a horse feels about the work is always there and always producing resistance and unwanted behaviourial responses. So a rider is always having to fight against the emotional trouble before they can produce good work. A horse can't possibly produce his best work because a large part of him is resisting. But if a horse does not feel too bad about the work, much more of his effort can be directed into the work because he doesn't need to protect himself from the training. I don't know that you can ever eradicate anxiety from a horse's work, but I do believe that the more anxiety a horse holds onto the more it gets in the way of a horse being all that he can.

In the end I believe that the answer for the lady with her two horses is to find a way to minimize the stress and anxiety in her horses. When they learn they don't have to protect themselves from the training they will be ready to go forward and be the best dressage horses they can be.

Lateral Flexion and Rolkur

I just read your post from yesterday about the flexion, thought that was interesting considering we only recently discussed that.

From what I understand, the reason that I have been teaching Atlanta lateral flexion is to establish moving her feet with my legs as apposed to the reins. I am doing this with her head straight (so the reins untouched), in an arc & a counter arc to whichever direction I want her feet to go, as to then move into walking/trotting her on a circle with her head going any way that I want, either straight, in or out of the circle and direction of her feet being controlled only by my leg. I suppose the question WHY? Is a pretty good one. Apart from learning new ‘tricks’ & it may be that it confirms that your legs are working & it’s not the reins they’re following? I must say I have noticed a little rubber necking, nothing major but she’s so responsive to rein and the leg that I can either use the other rein to counteract or i push her feet around or I keep the bend and complete my turn or whatever it is I am doing. I have only had 5 lessons with my Western Pleasure Instructor so hopefully I’ll find out about more as to ‘why?’ soon! Will keep you posted. I can see now that I have taken away the direct correlation from rein to feet and have instead added a third queue which is my leg. I would see this is unacceptable or inappropriate for a freshly trained horse that hasn’t been taught leg properly yet. I guess you could train establishing the leg aides and have all this stuff happening before they go home but most riders wouldn’t be educated enough to be taking home a horse like that. I love to have my opinion!

Also, I don’t know what Rohlkur is?

Belinda

The lateral flexion you have been doing is really really common and taught by most NH trainers and some western people too. I have already outlined my reason's for not teaching it, but as you have found one of the consequences for teaching it is to require the rider to use their inside leg to mobilize the hindquarters. I believe this later on causes all sorts of problems. I didn't mention before, but something that happens is that the rider now has to use outside leg to ensure a horse turns accurately. This is akin to dressage rider's requiring outside rein for the same purpose. Again, there is nothing wrong in teaching these things when a horse already has a really good understanding of following the feel of the reins. But if that is not the case it has a tendency to build in resistances and the at the very least make life more complicated in the greener horse.

There is a lot written about rolkur in recent years. I suggest you have a look at YouTube and search for rolkur to see what all the fuss is about. Basically, it is when a horse is overflexed vertically so that the nose nears his chest. It is being used a lot by international dressage riders as a training exercise and as indicated in the last soap box it seems to be used by other people too.

One Rein Or Two & Foaming At The Mouth

Hi Ross and Michele

Hope you are all ready to go Michèle, I want to wish you all the best for your trip, hope it’s great fun. I’ll look forward to seeing you when you return, all well rested from holidaying!

I’ve had a few rides on sally since Michèle came over, I got to take sally out trail riding on the Wednesday after, at Lang Lang, which was great fun. Sally was very rushy so I had to do alot to settle her and she hated the thought of putting her feet in the mud and water. She’ll splash herself in our dam but these black muddy tracks were pretty scary I think. So I want to ask you about the best way to help her with this, she was pretty insistent that the trees on the side of the narrow track were a better option, just not too good for my saddle. I went with just one other and she is a very experienced trail rider and was more than happy to walk the whole time, which was just what we needed. We rode at home too and I think did really well at working on what Michèle had taught us, the pull towards knocka didn’t last for very long into the ride and she gave some nice trot work. I kept in my mind what you said Michèle that if I can’t sit to the trot then it’s probably too fast, this was a great guide to help me maintain the trot.

Another ride was to Aaron park for riding club where XXXXX was instructing, over all it was a good lesson and I have come away with a few things to think about which is always a challenge! The 3 main points I got from the lesson were

1) relax my bum – this apparently will then relax my legs and back/shoulders

2) remain in the saddle just a fraction longer to slow the trot in rising trot keeping the top of my pelvis tilted back and

3) maintain the rein pressure equally in both reins to keep the bit parallel to the ground.

Now point 3 is the one that I would like to ask you about. I know we’ve talked about me not giving the reins away after asking sally for say a yield or turn, and Ross you have said that I just leave her on her own when I have done this so what XXXXX said fits in with this too but she didn’t agree with the use of one rein only, such as in a hq yield she said that this causes the bit to push upwards into the roof of the mouth causing pain, and therefore that it is cruel, relying on pain to get the yield. By having the bit straight in the mouth and using both reins prevents the scissor action of the jointed bit causing pain. I’m sorry if I’m long winded in my explanation but I’m not too good at explanations and writing, so bare with me please!!

One significant difference in what XXXXX was teaching me was the rein pressure, more than what you would have seen me riding with when not asking sally to do more than walk straight, she wanted me to maintain this same pressure all the time and follow the movement of the horse with this pressure. What I have tried since is to adjust the pressure or feel to what I would normally ride with, and adopt the following of the movement or correcting of the head position with keeping the reins more evenly weighted. I would appreciate your comments on these issues, I’m not in agreeance with everything I have discussed. I just wanted to try to get across the differences I’ve been experiencing.

I should say that sally’s demeanour during the lesson at AP was interesting. I interpreted her chewing on the bit as tension and XXXXX said that it was her accepting the bit and foaming at the mouth was a good thing. In sallys case I didn’t really agree, I wasn’t convinced that she was feeling better about things at that time. there were moments where I think she was more okay, but it was sure a mental challenge for her. She did much better today when I rode by myself at AP, this is when I worked on adjusting the feel on the reins and followed her with that. I am thinking that what I was really doing was being more consistent, something you have both been telling for years now.

OK I think I’m done now, hope Michele has a good flight

Louise

With regard to riding on the muddy track, I would be asking Sally to ride over the track from one side to the other. Don't make a big deal of it, but just ride across the track over and over and as she gets better, change the angle at which you cross the track so she has to ride on the track for a few steps before reaching the other side. Very soon she'll be okay. It's just a matter of letting her experience for herself that you are not going to get her killed. You already know she is okay with mud when it is her idea, but now you have to teach her that it's still okay even when it's your idea.

The rein comments by your instructor are interesting. But as I am sure you already guessed, I am going to disagree with her. The only time that the snaffle bit can be pushed into the roof of the horse's mouth is (i) when the horse's tongue pushed it upwards, or (ii) when you use both reins at the same time. If you think about how a snaffle bit works, in order to push into the palette of the horse the bit has to form a upside down 'V'. To do this the rings have to come closer to together. If the rings are pushed apart the bit flattens out into an almost straight line. If the rings are pushed together, the bit breaks in the middle to form an angle like an upside down 'V'. When you are riding, the only way to make the bit form this 'V' is to pull both reins back towards you at the same time. At the same time it has the potential to pinch the tongue caught inside the 'V' - this is called the nutcracker affect. These things can only happen when both reins are used at the same time. By using only one rein at a time, the bit rings are pulled farther apart and the bit does not form the 'V'. So with due respect to your instructor, she has got it the wrong way around.

The second part of your question about using the same contact all the time and following the movement of the horse while maintaining this constant contact, is "common as mud" poor dressage training. Riding a horse constantly with more feel on the reins than required is a sure way to cause a horse to become heavy on the reins and lean on the forehand. The only way a horse learns to be light and soft is by releasing the feel of the reins when they make a change. If you have a constant feel on the reins, that feel becomes the new zero pressure in the horse's mind. It's always there, but does not ask anything of the horse. It's like background noise. When it comes time to ask for something different with the reins, you have to apply even more feel to the reins for it to even register to the horse that the reins are being used. This feels becomes a heaviness. Anytime you do more than necessary to get a change, you cause some level of bother to your horse.

You are right that the foaming from the mouth is a sign of Sally's anxiety and not relaxation of the jaw or acceptance of the bit. Again, your instructor is relying on the same nonsense wisdom that I am sure she was told as a student and that her instructor was told when they were a student. The bit causes salivation in horses. But foam is caused by the horse's tongue agitating the saliva around and around quite vigorously. This action of the tongue mixes air with the saliva to cause the bubbles which then accumulates around the lips and muzzle and some folk love to call "ice cream." The foam can't be swallowed easily like normal saliva, so that's why you see it around the mouth. But you have to ask why does the tongue stir around the saliva so much? I have never seen a horse gazing in the paddock or even eating grain that foams at the mouth. The food causes salivation, but yet the tongue isn't stirring around air to cause foaming. I strongly believe it is a misconception that foaming is a good thing and a sign of a horse relaxing and accepting the bit. But if you are in doubt, just check to see what other signs Sally is giving to indicate she is feeling okay or not. It is extremely rare that a horse gives just one signal in isolation to show what they are feeling. So if Sally was feeling good about the bit or not you would see other indicators that confirm or deny the notion.

I'm glad you had a better ride at home after Michele's and I hope it's the start of making some more permanent changes for Sally.

Jinny The Brumby Mare

Hi Ross & Michele,

Thank you for Saturday - the lesson prompted me to look at Harry Whitney's website and read some articles, they added some clarity, should have done it earlier....

Anyway, to update on Jinny, we took her out for a walk on Sunday and things were right back where they were before the lesson, as you predicted. We were both pretty tired and I felt like I couldn't get it right (Pakenham market for her and a unit in the suburbs for me were looking like good options) so we had Monday off except for rugging, feeding etc. I did notice she stayed right away from me in the paddock instead of dancing on my heels as usual. It didn't make her hard to catch but she seemed to be deliberately ignoring us with her behind to us wherever we were. Yesterday we went out for a walk again with the usual distractions of other horses calling, cars, bushes etc, but she took a lot less to bring her back and in general stayed at eye level with me, mostly only needing a tiny pickup of the lead to back her off if she got too fast. She backed with only the teabag shake of the lead some of the time. I wondered if I was dreaming... She still pranced and called and carried on but not nearly as much and with much less checking. She is still sticking a bit when she thinks she has had enough but is walking on with a wave of the lead rope instead of a tugging match. We had a short walk because she seems extremely tired and I wonder if this is normal. It seems to be taking everything out of her to do this concentrating. That's what prompted me to email you because, as I sit here plugging invoices into MYOB, I can see her SLEEPING in the paddock. I have never seen this horse rest, let alone sleep. She is always, always, always on duty. Even in her yard at night, with a full belly, she is always on the lookout. Have we taken the pressure off her by taking charge?

The timing is the hardest thing for me, I am concentrating on picking up when she gives me her full attention and then backing off instead of asking for more all the time (nagging). I realise I have to let go of my own anxiety about her. Once yesterday she looked full on, ears forward but relaxed, body relaxed, lowered her head (still focussed) and chewed. She was six foot away at the end of the rope and standing quietly, four square, after backing up. This was down the road right in front of a horse property where she normally has to rear up and call like a maniac to all their breeders. It was a buzz!! Thanks!

Have a good week, happy holidays to Michele,
Regards,
Marina

Thanks for the good wishes for Michele's trip and for the update on your mare.

I do believe that over time even the few minutes a day that we are with our horses can affect their life in the paddock when we are not around. For a long time I have been convinced that if we constantly leave a horse in a state of anxiety when we put them back in the paddock, that over time that bad feeling can stay with the horse longer and longer until one day it is present all the time. Likewise, if we can help a horse to feel okay when we put them back in the paddock, we can also change their feelings and behaviour when we are not around. So I think it is possible that by changing how your horse is feeling when you are with her, you are also changing how she feels when you are not. However, I should say that it is very early days right now and I would be surprised if you have yet done enough and got lasting enough changes in Jinny to cause long term changes. I believe there are still much more work to do before you see consistent improvement. Nevetheless, you've made a start and I think that is great and you have a right to feel both proud and good about that. Keep it up and be thankful for having such a smart and kind horse.

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It was a day off today and we spent several hours searching for souvenirs for Michele to take back to the US for family and friends. She leaves on Wednesday and will return in 10 days. Everybody keeps telling her they will keep an eye on me to make sure i don't play up, but I'd like to know when they think I will get the time to "play up".

Mounting Blocks

There was a discussion on a horse forum about the best way to mount a horse. I have already written about the safest way to mount is from the ground, facing the horses head. A description (with pictures) and explanation of my reasons can be found here.

Many people use mounting blocks to get on a horse. The rationale seems to fall mainly into two camps: (i) some people find it physically too difficult to get on from the ground, and (ii) some people feel it is less strain on a horse's back to use a mounting block.

I understand these reasons, but I wonder if people really understand just how dangerous most mounting blocks really are. I always cringe a little when somebody says they want a mounting block because I know that they can be the cause of some serious accidents. The main problems stem from:

• some blocks are unstable (especially milk crates). Always use either a fixed block or one that is wider at the bottom than at the top. Always make sure the block is firm on the ground and does not wobble on uneven ground.
• some horses can be frightened if they knock the block when they move and may scoot away or kick out.
• if a horse moves while the rider is getting on and forces the rider to dismount, they can land on the edge of the block and fall off causing injury and frighten the horse.

I think these problems are serious enough and the cause of enough accidents for riders to seriously consider whether using a mounting block is worth doing.

I don't really consider mounting from the ground to be the cause of soreness in horses. I have seen some people be incredibly awkward and pull really hard on their horse when they mount, but I don't think I can ever recall it causing soreness in a horse.

However, if you are a person who owns a 25hh horse or are just not physically fit enough to mount from the ground there are two alternatives that come to mind. The first is to have a friend give you a leg up. This is a pretty safe way of mounting with none of the pitfalls of using a mounting block. Secondly, use a fence to mount from. It's not ideal, but because the fence is fixed it means the horse will not knock it with his legs and get a fright and it won't tip over. But you can still fall off a fence, so it needs some care. If all else fails, try being lowered onto your horse from a cherry picker or a helicopter.

Rolkur and Lateral Flexion - Thoughts from Mystery Trainer

I got an e-mail from a friend who is an excellent trainer and who was kind enough to offer his thoughts regarding my views on rolkur and lateral flexion in horses.

I've been reading your blog with interest for quite some time and wanted to add a comment or two about some things I've seen on there

ROHLKUR

I don't feel Rohlkur (I may be
speling it wrong) is a problem. It is the way it's applied. I recently saw a dvd of high level dressage horses doing Rohlkur and their tongues were blue and hanging out the side of their mouth. A horse doesn't need to be in Rohlkur for that to happen, just poorly trained and pulled on a lot. All the horses I saw were pulling against the riders hands, not getting off them. If Rohlkur is bad, then why is it good when a (chiropractor, equine body worker, whatever you want to call them) does carrot stretches with
a horse between it's front legs. It's the same thing you are trying to achieve with overflexion, the only difference (in the examples I've seen ) is that with the carrot the horse is willingly doing it, and with the dressage horses they have a huge brace in their body. Think about it, it's just an overcorrection, kind of like that circle exercise you saw at my clinic. Horses practice Rohlkur on each other (I'm using the term here to mean an overdoing of something), When a horse gets too close to their food, they don't say STOP, don't come any closer, they drive them off in the opposite direction. Overcorrection. I do Rohlkur with our reiners a lot, but it happens when my fingertips close on the reins, and the horses neck resembles a horse doing carrot stretches. The reins aren't actually PULLED on, because the horse keeps giving the whole way.So that's how I draw the conclusion that it's the way it's applied, not the act itself that is wrong.

LATERAL FLEXION

I thought your comments about teaching lateral flexion makes horses rubber necked interesting. The only way you can teach a horse to be rubber necked is to pick up on a rein and then keep pulling. I teach horses leateral flexion on the ground and is the first thing I do when first under saddle and have never had one "rubber necked". When I steer I will pick up on a rein and first the head/neck should bend and then I wait for the inside front foot to move laterally before I release. Pretty soon both happen at the same time. I thought your comment about lateral flexion is fine for higher level horses but not for young horses was interesting. I would equate that with "if your son wants to be a phd in biology, well then some day we'll teach him to count and the alphabet, for for now we'll just focus on babble". I start young horses with the intention that someday they could do high level things, so I don't want to teach them to be stiff and rigid first, then
at some point in time try to change that to something else.

Anyway, I hope you and Michelle are fine

Talk soon

Thanks also for your thoughts on both rolkur and lateral flexion.

I agree that much of what is wrong with rolkur is in it's application. I mainly know of it's use in dressage where it is a posture forced on the horse by very strong riding. Although the dressage riders say they use rolkur to stretch the horse's top line, it is also an exercise in submission because many of the horses are very very hot. Horses like Totilas and Salinero are considered brilliant dressage horses, but almost unmanageable without rolkur as part of their training.

Your analogy of a carrot stretch is fair enough. But I believe that is digresses from the way rolkur is used in dressage in two important ways. Firstly, as you point out the carrot stretch utilizes the willingness of the horse to overbend and that a horse won't overbend to the point of significant physical discomfort. Secondly, the carrot stretch is only for a few moments. In dressage, overbending is forced on the horse by the reins and the posture is maintain for several minutes. I think the prolonged forcing of a horse into such an extreme posture is what causes the submission that the dressage riders want.

But by the sounds of what you desribe, I guess that the rolkur that you want and the rolkur that the Dutch dressage team want are not the same thing or have the same purpose.

The lateral flexion thing is interesting. I know my views are in opposition to just about every trainer around. The rubber necking issue is real, but not so common. However, what is really common is seeing horses feet travelling a different line to their nose. It' a pet peeve of mine as to how very many horses (most, in fact) have a bend in their neck of a certain arc and their feet are travelling a different arc. I believe this is because the connection from the reins to the brain to the feet is faulty. I think that flexing a horse's neck without a concomittant yielding of the hq can only reinforce that faulty connection. If a horse cannot ride a line accurately that the reins describe, then having a horse bend his neck without describing any line can get in the way of fixing the problem. But when a horse already can ride an accurate line and the connection from the reins to the feet is strong, no harm can be done by teaching the lateral flexion. However, I must say that I still don't understand why you would do it. I'm unclear what good it does?

When I start a horse I teach it to give to the rein and for his feet to follow with the same amount of give. I try to teach him to both yield softly with his neck and with his feet - and both must be accurate to the amount of feel on the rein. The greater the feel on the rein, the more bend in his neck and the more his feet yield to follow that bend - anything from a 40m circle to a hq disengagement. I am not sure why I would want him to yield just with his neck.

The thing about what I said about lateral flexion being okay for horses that are further along is really about my view that the basic teaching of the rein is that they direct the thought to direct the feet. For me this is the beginning because it is the basis of riding. So I start all our young horses off with this notion. Once that is strongly established, then directing the thought without moving the feet is fine. I sort of equate to teaching a horse to load into a float without teaching him to lead well. I believe float loading done well is simply a leading issue. But lots of people teach their horse to float load well without being good on the lead rope - XXXXXX both have float loading exercises that teach the trick of going into a float without teaching the horse to lead well. When picking up a rein giving the neck alone becomes just a trick unless the horse understands how to give an equal amount with the feet.

You said "I start young horses with the intention that someday they could do high level things, so I don't want to teach them to be stiff and rigid first, then
at some point in time try to change that to something else."

I'm not sure of your point here. Why does teaching them to yield their hq when I bend their neck around cause them to be stiff and rigid?

The other thing I see with lateral flexion is how poorly it is done - even by professional trainers. Most people I see have their horse turn to them and say good boy and release, even though there is still resistance. There horses are heavy on the rein, eyes looking in the opposite direction and twisted at the poll with their head at 45 deg from the ground. There's hardly any give in the neck.

Also some people only mount horses that have their neck flexed around. They use the lateral flexion as a brake to stop the horse walking off when being mounted. What's with that?

Sorry for the thesis. As I write, new thoughts keep jumping into my head and out my fingers.

Let me know how you are going and what your plans are and I hope winter is kind to you.

All the best

Round Penning

Hey Ross and Michele,

Was chatting briefly with Michele on Saturday about round-yards being an abusive tool in "horsemanship"

Attached is an article I mentioned, written by someone whose ramblings I enjoy reading almost as much as your own!

While I'm sure his writings cover nothing that is news to you, I think it states pretty clearly the sad reality of a well known method which became widley popular amongst many well meaning horse owners...

I wonder if you would give us your opinion on your blog, and in the process, hopefully spare a few horses the torment that has sadly become common place in the "roundpen"?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts,
Miriam

http://www.lessismorehorse.com/Round%20Penning.htm

Thanks for the link to the article.

I agree with the concept that little good comes from driving a horse around and around the round yard until he gives up. I also agree that some well known trainers have brainwashed the general public into think that the purpose of round penning is to make a horse follow you around. I'm not sure I would entirely agree with the idea that round pen work corrupts the horse's understanding of the herd dynamic. But his point about chasing a horse around the yard has no meaning to a horse in the terms of how he would innately see the world, is a good one. There is nothing about chasing a horse around the yard that he can put into perspective and give meaning. This is why I believe the more popular forms of round penning demonstrated by people like Monty Roberts, John Lyons, Pat Parelli, Clinton Anderson etc, serves no useful purpose in good horsemanship.

For a fuller explanation of my thoughts on using a round yard, go to this link.

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Here is a select few photos from last week's Lesson Weekend. Just click on the image to enlarge it.

Choosing a Horse

Hi Ross

I am about to retire my 22 year old horse and I'm looking for a replacement. There are so many horses for sale, how do you choose the right one? I hear so many stories of people getting ripped off or buying a horse that doesn't turn out to be suitable. I am not the sort of person who can buy and sell horses easily so getting a horse is like choosing a husband for me. It's a partnership for life. Any advice or pitfall to avoid would be very much appreciated.

Best regards

Terese

What brilliant timing you have Terese because I am in the process of writing about choosing a horse for a Chaff Chat article. When it's done I will add it to the Horse Talk section on this web site too.

I don't want to go into much detail here because it would be a spoiler for the article. The first thing to decide is your price range. This sets the parameters for everything else you choose to want in a horse. Then you have to have a good idea what you want a horse for. You need to decide if it's a pleasure horse, endurance horse, dressage, polo, horseback archery, reining, eventer, kids pony or log snigger etc. Knowing this narrows your options considerably because it helps you decide a short list of breeds and size.

Knowing the price range and breed you then go and look at lots of horses. First examine them for conformation pros and cons. There are lots of books, articles, dvds and clinics that can help you learn about judging conformation. My personal favourite is Deb Bennetts series on conformation of the horse called "Principles of Conformation Analysis" and can be purchased from Eclectic Horseman. There are many other experts books as well and just about all of them will give you a good basic understanding of what's good and what's not about the way a horse is built. But keep in mind that being picky about minor conformation faults only becomes important if you are looking for a high end performance horse. Most of us who want a general all round horse can get away with some pretty badly put together horses without to much trouble or soundness issues.

After weeding out the horses that don't suit your price range, breed and conformation criteria, it is now time to check out the training and nature of the horse. At this point it is important that you are honest with your own ability as a trainer and horse person. If you are a really good horse person with a lot of experience training you can get away with buying badly educated horses because you have the skill to sort those things out with time and effort. But if you are not up to re-educating a horse, then you need to make sure that the horse is trained in exactly the right way for your abilities.

Make sure the owner shows you everything the horse is capable of doing and puts him under some pressure. You need to see how the horse handles pressure before you ride him. It's not enough that the horse can do the same exercises he has done every day for the past year. Ask the owner to show you how the horse handles something totally new or difficult. This will tell you a couple of things that can help you make up your mind. First, it will show you the type of trainer the owner has been by how he goes about putting pressure on the horse. This will give you information about the horse's life before you buy him. Second, it will show you a bit about the horses nature by how he mentally handles pressure. Does he blow up or does he shut down or does he maintain a calm demeanour? How quickly does he pick up the new task? How much resistance does he present and is the resistance in the reins or in the response to the rider's leg? Remember you are not so much interested in how well he learns the new task (although that is useful information), but in how he handles the added pressure. The task could be something very simple like backing over a pole or dragging a tarp or leading from the right or cantering with no contact.

Don't ever ride an unknown horse unless you have seen it ridden by somebody else first or have spent some time working it from the ground to feel certain it is okay to get on. I know of cases where the owner has made excuses for not being able to ride the horse, but told the prospective purchaser that they could ride. This can turn into a bad situation. Don't ride any horse that you have not personally seen being ridden just beforehand.

Lastly, once you have a short list of one or two horses that you are serious about buying, ask a knowledgeable friend or professional to go with you for another look. You need somebody who has no interest in whether or not you buy the horse, but has enough knowledge to advice you what is good and bad about each horse. It would help too if they have an idea of your ability and whether any particular horse would be suitable for you. Don't be in a hurry to buy a horse with fundamental problems in the hope that you'll be able to make him into a good horse. Buying a horse in the hope he is right for you is fraught with danger. It doesn't mean it won't work out for you, but the risks are considerably greater.

Once you have settled on the right horse, it's time for a vet check to ensure he is sound, the right age and will physically cope with the work you have planned in the coming years.

I hope that gives you some thoughts on how to go about doing the research to help you make the best possible purchase and minimize the risk of a wrong choice.

Keep an eye out for the article on buying a horse - it will have more information - and good luck.

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We had a great weekend of lessons. Every horse and every rider really impressed. It was fun to see so much improvement from month to month. I even gave a jumping lesson which is something that I don't get to do very often.

Irena Says...

Thank you both for yet another very insightful lesson day. Bringing another horse who is totally different to the one I have been bringing has started yet another journey and it has proved to me once again that there is no way that the kind of work you need to do with each horse can be mastered from a DVD.

Thanks again Ross and Michele.

Irena

Thanks Irena. Prince is a super nice pony - smart and sensitive. He'll be a fun horse to ride when you get him going.

Riding in a Rope Halter

The video clip above talks a little about what is a rope hackamore and the it's advantages for anybody who is unclear about the halter or hackamore for riding as opposed being just for ground handling.

I know several schools of horsemanship instruct their students to ride with rope halters or hackamores from a very early stage of training. Because there is no bit involved when riding with a rope halter it is considered a kindness to the horses. But I think there is a problem with people using rope halters at an early stage of a horse's training.

On the weekend a lady came for a lesson with a very nice Appy. She had had quite a lot of help from natural horse trainers over the years and chose to ride her horse in a rope hackamore for the lesson. Her horse had made quite a lot of really good changes in the couple of months she has been coming for lessons and I want to congratulate her on the excellent job she is doing with her horse. But it was clear the Appy was struggling with getting a correctness in his turns and bends and this was not helped by the hackamore and we suggested she ride in her snaffle bridle instead.

The problem with riding in a rope halter, hackamore, bosal or any head gear where both reins are attached at the same point, directly under the chin is that the feel that the reins offer is a less clear directional signal to the horse. Both the left and right rein are attached to the same point and whenever one or the other rein is applied there is a lateral pressure applied to indicate left or right turn. But there is also a significant backward pressure that has no left or right direction to it. This means the rein aid to turn is less clear than if a rider used a snaffle or side pull or web halter or cavesson - where the reins are attached to the side of the head gear. Having the reins at the side offers a horse a very clear message when only one rein is applied - there is no mixed signal. For a young horse that is still learning the meaning of the reins this is very important and makes it easier for the rider to be clear with his rein aids. It is a lot easier to build correctness into a horse's turns when the signal is clear. Any device that has the reins attached at the same point gets in the way of clarity and makes correctness much more difficult to achieve. It doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is harder for the horse to interpret the meaning of the reins.

When a horse is further along and has a really good understanding of the reins and correctness in his turns, then using rope halters, hackamores or bosals causes no problem. But many people use these devices before the horse has learned to be good on the reins because they think it is kinder to not have a bit in a young horse's mouth. But I believe any device where the reins attach under the chin should only be used after a horse has been well educated in how to follow the feel of reins that are attached to the side. Learning to follow the feel of a rope halter or bosal should only come after the horse has learned to follow the feel of a snaffle bit.

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Michele is off to the USA in a couple of weeks for her Year Book reunion. She was the editor of her Year Book at school and they are having a reunion of all the staff and associates in Chicago. I guess the Year Book thing is a big deal in the States. But it is also an excuse to catch up with family and friends in Chicago. She certainly deserves the time away from work and is very excited about her trip.

The rain has persisted over the past few days and the amount of horse work we have been able to get done has been inconsistent. Just about the only place to ride is out on the road because both our round yard and arena are water logged. Here is a photo from yesterday showing the typical weather we have been having. The muddy paddocks are also causing a problem with hoof abscesses. But it's all par for the course at this time of year. Thankfully, we are expecting good weather for this coming weekend of lessons.

Horse Starting Challenges

I see that Equitana is on again in Melbourne in November. Once again as part of the expo they are having a horse starting challenge. There are three contestants that are required to break in a horse each over 2 days. The first day is a 2hr session where the trainer attempts to get the horse rideable. The second day is taken up in a short session where the trainer is required to show what his mount is capable of doing under saddle. The contestants are judged over both sessions by three judges.

For me, these type of contests represent the exact opposite of what good horsemanship entails. I can't understand why any trainer who really cares about horses would involve themselves in such a contest. They are purely for entertainment and have no educational purpose for either the public or the horses. I have heard most trainers who participated in these types of contest say that what they do in the contest is not what they would do at home in their own time. So why do it? It clearly does not show off what they do at home and therefore has no relevance in displaying their talent as horse people.

The horses are put under tremendous stress and any attempt to work the horses in a quiet and calm manner is forgotten when the crowd is clapping and cheering, announcers roaring into microphones and other horses are being chased around the round yards. The horses are victims in these competitions and the chance of their first experience under saddle being a good experience is almost impossible.

In my estimate, two types of trainers get involved in horse starting challenges. Either showman or people trying to make a name for themselves. I don't know of any contest where trainers of high quality have participated. To my knowledge neither Ray Hunt or Joe Wolter or Lee Smith or Harry Whitney have ever been involved and I doubt they would ever. To these people the training of the horse and it's welfare is too serious a business to be turned into light entertainment for the masses. If it's not in the horse's best interest they would not be interested. Which leaves me to consider whether any trainer who participates in a horse starting contest is the type of trainer I would want to start my horse.

Picking Up Back Legs

Hi Ross

I can pick them up it's just the "for long enough to get the leg into position to clean it out .

So are you saying I have to sort of hang onto that leg (I guess like the farrier does) when she yanks it back or double yanks as she can. Is it better to have her tied up or nose tipped on the lead held by me or another? Or doesnt any of that matter? Or does it depend...

Anyway, I am working tomorrow so I will get to work on sucking up Thursday!

See ya!

Amanda


With picking up the leg I would be asking her to lift it off the ground without snatching it up and no resistance. It's not so much how ling she holds it up, but that she picks it up politely and there is no tightness to it. If she snaps it off the ground, don't grab it - ask her to put straight back down and then ask her to pick it up again. Every time she snaps it up, don't grab it. Get her to place it back and ask again. Keep repeating until she picks it up quietly and smoothly.

When she has lifted into your hand smoothly, try to place it anywhere you like. Move the leg in with your arm forward, backwards, left and right. Move it in a circle in the air. Try putting the toe on the ground and lift it up again without letting her place weight on the foot. You'd like it to be like moving a rope - someday day. Any time Meg fights or braces against your arm or goes to snatch it back, just quietly persist. Ask her to rest the toe before releasing the foot to the ground - you'd like her to wait for you to give her the foot on the ground rather than just take it out of your hand. When you feel a softness, put the foot on the ground for her and give her a pat. Build this softness so that she can hold it for longer and longer.

I generally prefer not to tie up horses that I am training to pick up their feet. It can be dangerous if they pull back and you are under them. Plus if a horse gets to thinking about kicking I might want to move their feet pretty smartly before the kick becomes anything more than a thought. If they are looking away, fixated on something else I would ask them to check back with me. But if their look is not a fixation, I don't mind if they are just checking out the scene, as long as they are still mentally aware of my presence - which they will be if they picked up their foot for you.

I hope that helps and I hope you get some interest in holding a clinic in the Tatura area.

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It's been a very showery day. I don't know why I bothered to have a shower this morning since I got rained on 3 times and pelted by hail once. I had to come home for a hot shower. Not much more we can do today with regard to working horses. The forecast is for more of the same tomorrow - but we will see.

More Thoughts on How Horses Use Pressure

Hi Ross

Just read your blog and have a question on the article about the way horses deal with pressure. When I'm at the farm I help the neighbours feed the horses at night. There are four mares in one paddock who are quite interesting and it's the same routine every time there is feed. One chesnut chases all the other mares around and makes them move so that she gets fed first. She doesn't push on me in any way or crowd me when I go in but she does move all the other mares. Sometimes it's quite agressive other times it's just a glance or a pin of the ears and the get right out of her way. So I understand the pressure that you mean however you indicated that you believe that horses don't direct horse so go somewhere only to clear space or I think that's what you ment however when I had Nicky at the adjustment park I watched a quarterhorse cross clydie direct three horses to go with him. It was quite amusing. It wad nightfall and he wanted to go to the otherside of the dam but didn't want to do it on his own so he went over to the others and insisted by pinning ears, nudging and biting that they move. One went but the others stood still he then flung his head around and kicked out to which the others followed. He finally got his way and made the three others stand where he wanted to be for the night. Is this a form of directional pressure?

Irena


You are right, of course. I did mean it in terms of a general observation. But horses can not only use pressure to move a horse out of a space, but also to put a horse into a different space. If I had given it more thought I would have given some examples such as horses that move cows all by themselves. I had a gelding that was in a paddock with about 20 steers. He would herd the steers into a corner of the paddock, then select out one steer and run it to the bottom of the paddock, around some trees and back to the mob. Then he would select a different steer and do the same thing. He would keep doing it until he either got bored or tired. This was a regular behaviour for him.

Another example that comes to mind is my gelding LJ that will herd mares in season into a corner. I think I put some photos of him dealing with a filly that had escaped from the corner. He chased it all around the paddock until the filly turned back to the corner. He would then give it the evil eye anytime he saw the filly even think about another escape attempt.

So you are right - horses can use pressure to direct an animal to a specific place. But in general we mainly see them just use pressure in order to make a horse yield away without directing them to any specific location.

Thanks for your input and for picking up on my error.

Click on the images to enlarge

Picking Up The Hind Feet

Hi Ross

Thanks for your detailed explanation on gaseous exchange! I guess with your heavy science background it's all elementary Mr. Watson!
My nurse training in that area needs a little brush up. Nothing an ICU course wouldnt fix up in my spare time!

Just a brief comment on Meg. Ha ha!
I lack confidence handling her back feet, unlike Jonah and Bella and Vance. I was happy enough on my technique there, but Meg makes me feel vulnerable and i guess it is mostly because "she " feels vulnerable and is not with me completely pretty much most of the time. I make myself pick her feet up every day I get her out of the paddock but I wont happily foist her fetlock on my upper leg like I might and the farrier does. She tends to pinch it back and so I am not keen to get my face in there too close. I think I will get some fly spray so she doesnt have that excuse to switch and jerk her legs back. But I know it is about me and not the flies! I have haltered and bridled her and the bridling was a bit stiff but she is nicer with the halter after an initial test out. No pulling back at least.

Related to this inability (plural, really) of mine is how ineffective i am at getting her focus back when she is "alarmed", Whatever I try to do just doesnt seem to cut it and surely I dont have to revert to marching into the round yard to get that focus, or maybe I do!

Anyway I have time tomorrow to devote properly, and all going well (Ha Ha) will ride her for the third time, nothing riveting though.
Today it was just get her out of the paddock to clean her feet for practise. I lunged her free today because I wasnt confident with her demenaour when trying to clean feet and trying to get her attention on me outside the yard could have ended in carnage (run away horse!)

This probably sounds worse than it is so dont be too folorn.
Do you still think I should not drive to Seville? Anyway might be away that weekend as it turns out.

Out of interest, would it be possible to survey website readers to see if they are willing to travel to Tatura for a clinic of some sorts one day?
Nothing planned at present, just scheming away....

By the way there is a lovely property on the edge of Echuca fully set up for horses. I would even lend you my round yard! Slurrrp...
I know the agent....There's not really many flies and it's only hot...occasionally...

Anyway,
see you next time

Amanda


I'm glad you are dealing with the getting Meg back into work again. I'm sure you are on the right track. I think the issue of picking up her back feet is something you know enough about to do it, but need to suck it up and get it done. You lack of confidence is understandable and I see it quite a lot with handling hind feet, but in the end it is the thing that gets in the way of Meg becoming very settled about her back feet. She is not afraid to have her feet handled and she is not in discomfort to have them picked up. It has become a habit between you and her and it's not going to get better, no matter how good she maybe for anybody else, until you take control of your fear. I know it's a bugger and hard to do, but I don't think there is any answer. If it helps you can start by picking her feet up by asking from a rope around her fetlock. That way it she fusses you can be far enough away as to be out of the line of fire. But in the end you are going to have one day reach down with your hand and ask her to pick up a hind foot and tell her to stop fussing.

With regards to a clinic in Tatura, if anybody is interested in attending they can contact me and I'll put them in touch with you, Amanda. You could also try asking for expressions of interest on say a horse forum like http://vichorse.com/forum/

As much as we enjoy visiting Echuca a couple of times a year for clinics, I'm not sure Michele or I could cope with the heat or the flies if we lived there. But thanks for the suggestion.

Hello From California

Hi Ross,

I have been following your soap box posts regularly for the past several months. I am so grateful for the issues you address and the suggestions you offer. We have been clients of Shea Stewart’s for the past 9 months so your writing deepens the little things she has been trying to convey to us. I was wondering if you would consider making a trip to California in the near future to do some teaching? Let us know.

Thanks,

Sheri


You are lucky to have been getting help from Shea. She is not only one of my favourite people, but a top class horsewoman and a terrific teacher. I'm glad you have enjoyed the web site and hope it has given you some things to think about. But if you have Shea on your side you don't need my help.

We would love to return to CA for clinics and to see friends. We use to come over every year to spend time with Harry Whitney in AZ and then see friends like Shea and do a few clinics along the way. But family matters have prevented us crossing the Pacific for a couple of years. We would like to return next year, but at the moment we can't commit to any plans due to the fact that we will probably be re-locating late this year or early next year. Nevertheless, we are always looking for an excuse and opportunity to go to the States (Michele is from Chicago) and when our plans are more concrete I will let everyone know via the web site or I'm sure Shea will be able to tell you.

This is our friend Shea Stewart from California. She's a trainer and clinician and you can check out her web site here. In this photo she is riding her mare, Rosebud while working a pretty troubled horse at Harry's ranch in Arizona. We have been trying for years to get her to come to Australia and we haven't given up hope yet.

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Pressure: The Way A Horse Uses It Versus The Way A Human Uses It

A few days ago I was thinking about how horses interact with each other and in particular how they use pressure to get a response from another horse. This came about because I had been watching a woman jumping a horse and when the horse made a refusal at a combination, she laid into it with spurs and whip. This had the effect of putting enough flee in the horse that by simply blocking it's possible escape route the horse did not refuse the second time. It occurred to me that horses don't use pressure in the same way that humans do.

It seems to be that when a horse applies pressure at another horse it is always about giving up space. The "pressurer' is telling the "pressuree" to move out of a space. Most often it's something like "get away from me" or "move away from that feed bucket because I'm coming through." It's rarely even about directing the other horse where to move, it's mostly just give up that space.

This is in sharp contrast to the way we use pressure. We apply pressure to get our horse to come to us - something they never do with each other. We use pressure to make them move somewhere and we go with them - such as when a rider applies leg pressure. We use pressure to direct them in a specific manner - such as when to canter or when to walk or where to turn or when to stop turning or cantering. We use pressure to send a horse through a gate or over a jump. All these things horses don't do to each other. How alien must we seem to a horse. How different must our use of pressure be for our horses.

Certainly the rider of the horse that refused the jump used pressure in a way that is very foreign to how a horse would normally reason to respond. The rider's whacking and spurring only put a worry in the horse. It would not have been clear to the horse what space he needed to give up. It would not have been clear to the horse why he was getting whacked. There was nothing that the whacking and spurring was doing that the horse could learn from. If you look at how we use pressure and how horses use pressure, it's not surprising how confused they get during their training. We are asking them to learn a totally new language to what they innately understand and when we are unclear or inconsistent in how we use that language it is inevitable that our horses feel anxious and resistant and go into self protection mode.

I think it is the responsibility of all horse owners to appreciate the nature of a horse and be aware of the difference between how a horse's natural understanding of how to respond to pressure is not how we use pressure in our training. It explains so much of the trouble we encounter in our training.

Reactivity vs Sensitivity

Hi Ross,
A pony I saw yesterday and the part in Mandy's post about horses not liking tunnels and traffic got me thinking (a rare thing indeed). When I took Eli to Werribee (his first "real" float trip after he went through the float window) he did not appear to be concerned about the tunnel or the B-double trucks that surrounded us as we went through it. I was watching him and he looked around, fairly casually and then went back to eating hay. I remember at the time thinking he would have reacted more given that he can be very snort and blow about anything new even though he is not an extremely sensitive horse like Chops.
Yesterday I had to help someone catch an older pony that did not want to be caught, the pony was very reactive to every move the owner made towards putting the halter on. When we eventually got the pony caught, and worked a little in a yard putting the halter on and off, it was far less reactive. It's not an overly "sensitive" pony either but it's reactions caused the owner to think it was.
Do you find that some horses are the equine equivalent of "drama queens" regardless of whether they are sensitive or not? And if so, how can we as "normal" owners tell the difference and decide how to deal with it?
Cheers,
Marg.

It's a good question, but I don't know how to answer you Marg. I think some horses are more stoic than others and suffer in silence compared to other horses. My old Percheron/Arab gelding would absolutely lose the plot of something relatively minor like the rain on his face or a bot fly around his legs. Chops is like this too. Yet, my long gone pure Percheron gelding didn't flinch at such things. Riley and Birch are both is relatively unflappable by such small things, but Six will let you know about everything little thing that is not right in her world. Is that being a "drama queen" or are such horse just better communicators than some others?

I think as horse owners we are pretty luck to have a horse that lets you know when things are wrong. I know they can be a pain sometimes because you just wish they would get over it. But I believe even though Birch may not be jumping around because of a bot fly doesn't mean she is any less stressed by it than say Six or Chops would be. As nice as it can be to be riding a horse like Birch who just gets on with the job and tries to tune out the problem, from a horse person's point of view who is trying to understand their horse I like to know as much as I can about what my horse is feeling so I can help him. But that's just me and doesn't mean it's for everybody.

So to answer your question about how you tell the diference and how to do you deal with the difference, I don't think you worry about it. The worry is still there whether or not they are reacting to it. Treat it the same irrespective of whether they are under reacting or over reacting to something. If you address the cause of the reaction and not the reaction, it will sort itself out.

Assorted Questions

Hi Ross

Apart from all your worldly horsemanship knowledge, where the heck do you get such information as you have shared: EG. 5 DEGREES BEFORE RUGS ARE CONSIDERED AND THE AMOUNT OF AIR PER MINUTE in regards to the floating question! My mind boggles at how much there is to learn in the world but I dont even know where to look except : goodhorsemanship.com.au!

Today I browsed a bookshop (secondhand) and found Tom roberts books (3 of them, but one I have). I have two on hold but the clever dealer charges full price and i know there is a horsebook store in ? Armidale? in Melbourne that has them all for sale probably same price! Cant remember the shop name in Melb at the minute. Miught be in my Favourites bar... I have Horse Control and the Bit. I have read them all and really enjoyed the one titiled "Reminiscence". the ones I have on hold are - " The Rider and the Young Horse" and ... cant remember the other. Must have been to relaxed after my pedicure! (Xmas gift to mothers and in law meant I just had to accompany them!)

I also came across John Chatterton 10 commandments and just wanted to read what he is on about. At a quick glance he looks like he approached floating like you do but i imagine there is stuff in there that you dont agree with. It's not too big a book so I thought it might make food for thought and more questionsd for you to tackle later on, if i get to ask them. It was cheaper than Tom Roberts but I think Mr. Roberts might have more insight.

Also while I am here, just wanted to say thanks for the tips with Meg and the bucking on the lunge-fresh issue. It seemed to go well. She is mighty athletic however! Going to work her tomoorw so I hope I havent mozzed myself!

Lastly- what kind of stuff do they teach in the degree? that I think you and Harry have studied in your younger days and is there an equivalent in Australia or was it a veterinary line of course?

Cheers,

Amanda

I'm glad you are sorting out the issue of bringing Meg back into work after a long spell.

The thermoneutral temperature of horses is well documented in several studies. Just a simple Google search will help you find the information.

As regards to the change over of air in a horse float I worked it out quickly as an estimate based on the volume of air in a float (multiply the dimensions of height, width and length). Take into account that the concentration of carbon dioxide in air is 0.3% and you don't want it to rise above 0.5%. A horse breathe out 3% carbon dioxide (basic physiology). The volume of air a horse breathes out per minute at rest is approximately 25 litres. All this allows you to estimate the amount of turnover of air required to not let the concentration of carbon dioxide rise above 0.5%. That's how I came up with an approximation of 15 minutes for a complete change of air for one horse in an average standard sized float. I hope that clears that up for you.

I think both Tom Roberts and John Chatterton's books are good books. I think the principles they espouse are things that all horse people should try to grasp. But my complaint with them is the same it is with any book or dvd. They only convey the basic mechanics of working with a horse and don't do well at teaching about a horse's thoughts and feelings and how to work with them. I think for that kind of help you need to study Tom Dorrance's book, "True Unity."

I'm not sure what you mean by "what kind of stuff do they teach in the degree". Harry studied Animal Husbandary in Kansas after he left school and was awarded his bachelor degree. I studied physiology and biochemistry at university and was awarded a BSc (hons). I then went on to obtain a PhD in Physiology in which I studied growth and growth retardation in fetal development. Subsequently, I moved overseas and spent many years studying fetal endocrinology in which I researched the fetal and maternal hormones involved in determining the timing of birth and how they can be manipulated to prevent premature birth. I'm confused by your question, so have I answered it?

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The rain, cold and wind has kept my mind wandering to images of the northern tropics. It's been hard to stay motivated today because every 10 or 15 minutes we had shower of rain- yeah!

Importance - And It's Place In Training!

Today, I was working with a client whose horse I have just begun to break in. Because the weather was so bad and the round yard was awash I decided to do something simple with the horse which would enable us to stop anytime the rain came down. I had the owner begin doing some ground work with her horse. We always start the introduction to working with their horse by having owners do simple leading exercises followed by hindquarter and forehand yields and maybe some lunging at the end of the session. During the session the lady noticed that her horse behaved better when I did the exercises than when she did. I told her that part of the problem was that she was less clear in her mind of what was acceptable and what was not.

Jenny said to me that when she watched me working her horse that it seemed it was black and white, but she felt that when she worked with her horse there were too many grey areas. I was very clear what I wanted and expected from her horse, but she was less sure and allowed the responses from her horse to be fuzzy. For example, she has had problems with her horse crowding her with his left shoulder when leading him. He kept creeping closer and closer with his left shoulder towards her and when she did a left turn he would almost step on her with the shoulder. Sometimes she would get him to move away from her and other times he would inch closer without her doing anything about it. This was in contrast to how I handled her horse. I was very clear how close he was allowed to be with his shoulder. There was to be no "sort of far enough away" or "sort of too close". There was a line between him and me and he was not to cross that line. It was clear to me and very quickly became clear to her horse. But when Jenny took the lead rope it was not nearly so clear.

Jenny told me that she wasn't able to see the little transgressions that her horse made when crossing the line and this is why she was fuzzy. She didn't know how she could be more clear if she didn't see the little mistakes her horse made. My answer was that she would see them if it was important enough to her. I said that "it's not yet important enough to you because you can still get away with being fuzzy around your horse." But I said "if every time your horse crowded you with his shoulder even just a little bit your child's life was in danger you'd soon be super aware of his smallest mistakes."

I believe it's true. If our lives depended on how clear we were to our horses, we would all be very clear. But we don't place that level of importance on clarity because our lives generally don't depend on it. But to our horses, our clarity is life and death. Everything we do is weighed up by our horses in terms of how it will affect his survival. But to us, who cares if we are little late or a little sloppy with our cues?

We sometimes see people who have been having lessons for a long time, yet don't seem to have improved much from when they started. For a few people, it seems the stagnation is the result of a lack of effort - they don't care enough to work at their riding or horsemanship. They often think that it is enough to be having lessons or going to clinics or studying books and videos for the changes to come about by osmosis - like they will absorb it through the air. But if their life dependent on becoming a better rider/horse person there would be no stagnation. Those people would become better with horses by necessity or Darwinian principles means those people would die out (not a very nice thought I suppose).

I guess my point is that being precise and clear in our training is something we are all capable of achieving if we give it sufficient importance. It does require work and effort, but so does achieving anything worthwhile. I don't know anybody who is good with horses who didn't have to work at it. Having lessons. going to clinics, reading books and watching dvds is just the start and not enough on its own. The real work, the real progress happens at home when being clear is just as important to you as it is to your horse.

Choosing Options For a Horse Float

Hi Ross,

I'm in the market for a new horse float. I have already chosen a 3 horse angle load, but I am wondering about how many vents and windows I should get with the option package. I read on another site than horses prefer no windows because the traffic and tunnels can scare them. But I think having enough vents must be important because sometimes our old float really smells of ammonia and it seems hot too after a long trip. What are your thoughts?

Regards

Mandy


I can't say I agree with the idea of no windows. I think horses load and travel much better with normal light. Dark floats are a little too cave-like for most horses and they take some getting use to. I would always have enough windows to allow as much sun light as possible in the float.

You are correct that good ventilation is important. The build up of carbon dioxide, ammonia, methane and heat in a closed in float after a long trip can be very stressful and hazardous to a horse's health. In theory you should have a complete change of air in the float every 15 minutes for 1 horse and every 7 minutes for 2 horses.

Michele and I are in the market for a new float later in the year and we have chosen a stock trailer by Titan (an imported brand from the USA). The advantage of a stock trailer is that it has superior ventilation and light because the sides are not closed. I should say that we have no association with the manufacturer or importer of Titan Trailers - we just like their product.

Anyway, Mandy don't skimp on windows or vents, These items are far more important to your horse than extra cupboard space.

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Pressure

I want to mention something that came up in conversation a few days ago. It's in regard to pressure and how it can cause dullness and/or anxiety in a horse when applied in an inappropriate way.

The major crime that I see people do all the time is use more pressure than needed. Watch the video without sound.

Horses are far more perceptive and sensitive than most people give them credit. Everyone has heard how a horse can feel a fly land on him, yet when the bloke in the video asks his horse to do something he always starts with a pressure far far greater than the feel that a fly would exert. Why? Does he think his horse is stupid or has no ability to feel? I consider that using this level of pressure from his rope or his stick is him shouting at his horse. Notice I said that he STARTS with a lot of pressure. If you want a horse to be responsive to the smallest cue, you need to offer that cue as a starting point. If you don't offer the smallest cue first, your horse can never learn to listen to it because you have taught him it doesn't exist. The most sensitive your horse can be to pressure is the pressure that you offer in your first request for him to change. If your horse does not respond to the smallest cue, then you may need to increase the pressure. But you do so in an effort to teach him to listen of the first, small request.

So the first problem with using a lot of pressure from the get go is that is causes a horse to be deaf to a small amount of pressure.

The second issue is that whenever you use more pressure than necessary to get a change in a horse it creates bad feelings inside the horse. I believe one of the most common causes of a horse pinning it's ears and sourness comes from people using more pressure than needed on a horse. Imagine how a horse must feel if he is ready to respond when asked with a pressure of say 2 and the person uses a pressure of 5 or 6! It can only lead to ill feelings and an anxiety about the work. Again, if you look at the horse in the video you'll see the tension. Just some examples can be seen at 0.18s, 0.31s, 1.03s and 1.17s. Every time the horse is asked to back up his head goes up and his back hollows. This would not happen in a relaxed horse.

A good rule of thumb is that whenever in doubt use less pressure rather than more. If you less pressure you can always apply more if it is needed. But if you do too much, you can't take it away - the damage is done and the horse will remember.

It's never easy being sure about just how much pressure to apply when asking a horse to do something. Experience will teach you to listen to the inside of your horse and let his feelings guide you as to how little you need to do.

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I have put the April Soap Box entries in the archive section - see the side bar. Also I have added a few new clinic dates on the Schedule page. There is a new story on the Story page too.

We have started weaning foals for a friend this week. Despite my preference to wean them gradually, we are having to do it suddenly. The mum's were taken away yesterday and I am very happy that the foals are handing it well. It helps that the foals are around 6 and 7 months old and have already developed quite a lot of independence from their mothers.

We had a big change over of horses this week and have some nice horses to work with. Usually our business is 50% starting horses and 50% troubled horses, but the past several weeks have been almost entirely made up of starting horses under saddle.

Michele's horse, Birch has a mystery lameness which appears to be coming from high up in the foreleg. She has had this once before and needed about 3 months rest before she was sound. So Michele has decided to rest and begin working with Riley. He is my TB gelding that had a fractured splint bone last year (thanks to a kick from a client's horse). I have been meaning to get around to start working him again since February, but I never seem to have the time to work both Riley and my mare, Six. So I am really happy that Michele is going to put some time into Riley. He is a wonderful horse, but he needs some fine tuning to turn him into an amazing horse. He really does have the potential to be anything including a Grand Prix horse. He has the rare quality of being a superb athlete combined with a really steady, quiet mind. He just needs more education. so it's exciting that Michele will devote some time to him.

Separation Anxiety.... again

Hi Ross,

Yeah, im asking myself the same question...i guess that experience made me realise that my horse is lacking in self confidence and couldn't really care less if im there or not!
We haven't really done all that much, just basically trial riding with friends (he WAS known as the slow quiet horse), so our experience at ARC and now Riding of the Bounds was a bit of a shock to the system!

Im sure your sick of my questions but, how can i tell that hes at least trying to be with me when i pull him out to brush him? is it along the ines of when i go out of site (to get something from the shed) he is staring in that direction until im back in site? Or if i go inside and when i come back he nickers at me? And when he does give me attention, how do i reward that?

And I have learnt my lesson, a friend had a spare spot in her float and offered to take Clyde and I to Wandin for some Cross Country practice, needless to say - we didnt go....

Thank you very much for your time, I will hopefully be attending a lesson in the near future :)

Claire

It's tricky to talk about how you know when he is with you or not. It starts with where he is looking and how fixated he is with where he is looking. When you lead him from the paddock, does he wander aimlessly or do you feel he and you are walking together? That is, when you stop does he stop or do you have to use the lead rope to stop him? When you turn does he turn just without pulling or pushing with the lead rope? When you brush him can you put the slightest feel in the lead rope and get him to look at you with both eyes? These are just 3 examples of things you could look for in your horse. But in reality there are things happening every second that tell you whether or not your horse is connected to you.

take a look at this video clip http://www.youtube.com/user/RMK11KTM

There is a lot going on every second with this horse, but in the overall picture notice how the horse never looks at the handler and is constantly counter bent looking to the outside of the circle - notice the eyes. But even when he is over bent to the inside he doesn't look at the owner. He doesn't even look at her when she goes up to him to pet him. See how he pulls away on the far side of the circle because the other horses are over there. These are the sorts of things that tell you the horse is not with the owner and feels troubled about being there.

Right now it is not possible for you to be aware of every little thing, but you can start with some bigger things. In time you will hone your awareness and ability to keep your horse's attention nearly all the time.

When a horse is paying attention you don't have to reward him other than to make it a place of low stress. When he checks in with you it should feel good to him, so release all the pressure you can and give him a moment. He will begin to look for the spots where he can get that same good feeling and check in more and more if you allow it to be the best option available.

I hope we get to see you one day with your horse because I think this will make a lot more sense when you see at work with a horse in front of you. It's a lot harder to give you the sense I mean in the written word than it would be if we were working a horse.

Flexing the Neck

Hi Ross,
I've just read today's tome on your blog page, you must be getting sore fingers from typing by now. I understand your point about asking a horse to flex his neck without moving his feet and I agree that it is not something we would want to instill in our horses. But we might ask a horse to flex slightly when we are trying to influence where their thought is. This is one of those areas where what you say, and what you do, may appear to contradict each other (I know someone who will think you have contradicted yourself). For the sake of clarity can you post some pictures and comments of the difference between the two ?
Cheers,
Marg.

Thanks for your thoughts. I see your point about confusing people - a specialty of mine!

There is a big difference between a horse flexing his neck and a horse looking. As I have said many many times a horse does what he is thinking and he can't think one thing and do something else well. Getting a horse to look at something is a great way to influence his thought. Where is he looking is where he is thinking. So asking him to "flex slightly" is not about flexing at all, but looking. He will flex his neck in order to look at something that is not straight ahead. If he moves his feet in the direction of where he is looking, I am very happy. But the practice of asking a horse to look first and then move his feet in that direction is something we do a lot because we always want him to think in the direction before he moves in the direction. I know you've seen Michele and I ask a horse to look left or right and not let his feet go in that direction. But that's because he is wanting to move his feet before he looks or thinks in that direction. This happens because the horse is evading the pressure and because often times horses have learned to just go where the pressure directs them without too much thought. So we try to change that by insisting the horse looks/thinks left or right before he moves his feet. Anytime a horse changes his feet before he changes his thought, you know things are not right. The change of thought should always precede the physical response. But if he looks first and then moves his feet, I have no problem with that.

This is vastly different to asking a horse to flex his neck around and keep his feet still. As I said in the previous entry, on a green horse this is a recipe for confusing the meaning of the reins. If a rider asked for flexion, the horse looked and then moved his feet I would be happy. But almost 100% of time the exercise does not emphasize or even consider where the horse is looking or thinking. It's simply about ensuring the horse can flex his neck without reefing the reins out the rider's hands. This then leads to flexion of the neck becoming a learned trick that involves little or no mental commitment on the part of the horse.

Click on the images to enlarge them

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