Jan 2012
19 January, 2012
Blog Blackout
This will be my last blog for more than a month. I will be on the road with Harry very soon and won’t have access to a computer for writing a blog or for responding to e-mails. If you need to contact me, please do so via my mobile phone number, which is on my contact page.
This will be my last blog for more than a month. I will be on the road with Harry very soon and won’t have access to a computer for writing a blog or for responding to e-mails. If you need to contact me, please do so via my mobile phone number, which is on my contact page.
Filed in: training
Good And Bad Horsemanship
The regular readers among you will already know that I have strong views on training. I don’t shy away from criticism of what I believe is poor training. Some folks have accused me of unprofessionalism by being publicly critical of other professionals. But I don’t see my role as protecting the egos of any of us. My purpose is to do what I believe is in the best interest of horses and horse people and if that means being not so politically correct, I’m okay with that.
But the questions then remain what is poor horsemanship and how come it flourishes?
The world is full of poor horsemanship. In fact, I think there is far more bad horsemanship around than good.
In my book, bad horsemanship is any horsemanship that does not benefit the horse. I know that’s a pretty general definition, but it does adequately cover my definition.
So what does it mean to benefit a horse?
Given that we are talking about riding and working with horses and not simply watching them romp in a paddock for the rest of their days, I think the term “benefit” is a hard one to define.
To me, if I’m going to work with a horse I feel that the way I approach the horse can only benefit him if I do not harm him either physically or psychologically or emotionally. I can’t compromise those variables and still be practicing good horsemanship. In some part it comes back to my slogan of “keeping the horse inside the horse.”
So good and bad horsemanship doesn’t come in labels like natural or traditional or Australian or Native American or Mongolian or Kel Jeffrey method or whatever. It doesn’t come with a special saddle or lead rope that helps you identify the type of horsemanship. It doesn’t come with a certification from a well-known training system. You can’t recognize it because it has the stamp of approval of a famous trainer. Those are not the things that identify good or bad horsemanship.
Of course, you may have very different notions of what is good and bad horsemanship. If so, I’d really like to hear about them. But if you are still trying to figure this part out in your search to be a better horse person, then I urge you to take as much time as you need to be sure of your own philosophy in this matter.
I believe that the fact than many people are still trying to come to terms with their own ideas about what is good and bad horsemanship is in large part the reason why there is so much bad horsemanship.
When I look at YouTube under the search terms “horse training”, I see probably 90% of videos demonstrating horsemanship that fit with my definition of bad horsemanship. Perhaps even more. How can this be? Am I so far out of touch that I am the one that has got it wrong? I guess that could be. After all, when you are in a very small minority group you have to consider the possibility that you are the mad one and not the rest of the world.
But then I see that even the bad trainers think the other bad trainers are bad, so what’s with that?
This is where I come to the crux of the matter. If you want to know if a trainer or style of horsemanship is good or bad, ask the horse – not the human. People have agendas that have nothing to do with what is most benefit to a horse. Humans want to win ribbons, receive praise from others, get a task accomplished etc - none of which a horse could give a rats about. So you can’t be making judgement about these things based on the agenda of people. You can only make a reliable judgement by understanding the horse’s point of view about what he is experiencing in the training. You have to be able to read how a horse feels. This is one of the biggest hurdles people discover in their journey into good horsemanship. It’s hard and it is never ending – any married man understands what it is like (joking!). I think it is because it is so hard that bad horsemanship flourishes around the world.
I am aware that my blog can sometimes come across as very negative because I talk so much about examples of bad horsemanship I see around me and on the internet. It bothers me that I am not more upbeat and positive about the horsemanship I see. I hope it will change over time as more people become aware of how they need to approach their horsemanship to most benefit the horse.
The regular readers among you will already know that I have strong views on training. I don’t shy away from criticism of what I believe is poor training. Some folks have accused me of unprofessionalism by being publicly critical of other professionals. But I don’t see my role as protecting the egos of any of us. My purpose is to do what I believe is in the best interest of horses and horse people and if that means being not so politically correct, I’m okay with that.
But the questions then remain what is poor horsemanship and how come it flourishes?
The world is full of poor horsemanship. In fact, I think there is far more bad horsemanship around than good.
In my book, bad horsemanship is any horsemanship that does not benefit the horse. I know that’s a pretty general definition, but it does adequately cover my definition.
So what does it mean to benefit a horse?
Given that we are talking about riding and working with horses and not simply watching them romp in a paddock for the rest of their days, I think the term “benefit” is a hard one to define.
To me, if I’m going to work with a horse I feel that the way I approach the horse can only benefit him if I do not harm him either physically or psychologically or emotionally. I can’t compromise those variables and still be practicing good horsemanship. In some part it comes back to my slogan of “keeping the horse inside the horse.”
So good and bad horsemanship doesn’t come in labels like natural or traditional or Australian or Native American or Mongolian or Kel Jeffrey method or whatever. It doesn’t come with a special saddle or lead rope that helps you identify the type of horsemanship. It doesn’t come with a certification from a well-known training system. You can’t recognize it because it has the stamp of approval of a famous trainer. Those are not the things that identify good or bad horsemanship.
Of course, you may have very different notions of what is good and bad horsemanship. If so, I’d really like to hear about them. But if you are still trying to figure this part out in your search to be a better horse person, then I urge you to take as much time as you need to be sure of your own philosophy in this matter.
I believe that the fact than many people are still trying to come to terms with their own ideas about what is good and bad horsemanship is in large part the reason why there is so much bad horsemanship.
When I look at YouTube under the search terms “horse training”, I see probably 90% of videos demonstrating horsemanship that fit with my definition of bad horsemanship. Perhaps even more. How can this be? Am I so far out of touch that I am the one that has got it wrong? I guess that could be. After all, when you are in a very small minority group you have to consider the possibility that you are the mad one and not the rest of the world.
But then I see that even the bad trainers think the other bad trainers are bad, so what’s with that?
This is where I come to the crux of the matter. If you want to know if a trainer or style of horsemanship is good or bad, ask the horse – not the human. People have agendas that have nothing to do with what is most benefit to a horse. Humans want to win ribbons, receive praise from others, get a task accomplished etc - none of which a horse could give a rats about. So you can’t be making judgement about these things based on the agenda of people. You can only make a reliable judgement by understanding the horse’s point of view about what he is experiencing in the training. You have to be able to read how a horse feels. This is one of the biggest hurdles people discover in their journey into good horsemanship. It’s hard and it is never ending – any married man understands what it is like (joking!). I think it is because it is so hard that bad horsemanship flourishes around the world.
I am aware that my blog can sometimes come across as very negative because I talk so much about examples of bad horsemanship I see around me and on the internet. It bothers me that I am not more upbeat and positive about the horsemanship I see. I hope it will change over time as more people become aware of how they need to approach their horsemanship to most benefit the horse.
Filed in: training
Good Horsemanship
Now that I have all that off my chest, I thought I would show you an example of good horsemanship. It’s Warwick Schiller working with a horse that bad about being worm pasted. I like the way Warwick approached the problem, but I especially liked that he left in the bloopers.
Rule 1: keep hold of the worm paste.
Now that I have all that off my chest, I thought I would show you an example of good horsemanship. It’s Warwick Schiller working with a horse that bad about being worm pasted. I like the way Warwick approached the problem, but I especially liked that he left in the bloopers.
Rule 1: keep hold of the worm paste.
16 January, 2012
Filed in: Misc
Harry Whitney - Photographer
I picked up Harry from the airport yesterday and had the long 8 hr drive home. He slept well and is already to go for his 5 weeks of clinics.
Some people may not know that Harry is an enthusiastic photographer and he recently won a prestigious competition, which you can see by clicking here. (it’s not the photo below that won the competition)
If you’d like to see more of Harry’s photographs he has a web site where many of his pictures are on display and can be purchased, http://www.harrywhitneyphotography.com/
I picked up Harry from the airport yesterday and had the long 8 hr drive home. He slept well and is already to go for his 5 weeks of clinics.
Some people may not know that Harry is an enthusiastic photographer and he recently won a prestigious competition, which you can see by clicking here. (it’s not the photo below that won the competition)
If you’d like to see more of Harry’s photographs he has a web site where many of his pictures are on display and can be purchased, http://www.harrywhitneyphotography.com/
Filed in: training
Leadership – An Alternative Reason Why It Is Important
I was discussing with a new client last week about the importance of offering leadership to a horse. I gave her the reason most of us have heard a millions times about how horses have a natural need to exist in a hierarchy rather than a democracy. Offering a horse leadership is offering them a comfort that all is right in the world and everything is in its natural order.
But as I was discussing this concept with the client it occurred to me that my explanation to her was only part of the reason why leadership is important in developing a good relationship with a horse.
I’m not sure that I can explain my thinking clearly here because I’m still sorting it out in my head. But it is to do with the fact that horses cannot plan ahead. They live in the moment and although they can learn to associate one event with another, they can’t extrapolate ahead to something that has not been learned by repetition. For example, they can learn that being saddled will lead to being ridden. If you saddle your horse enough times and ride them immediately after being saddled, they learn that saddling causes riding. But they can’t then extrapolate to the idea that saddling causes trail riding, jumping, circles etc unless you always have a routine of doing the same thing. But even then it is not planning ahead, it is predicting ahead.
Because horses cannot plan, they are not in a position to take the role of leading an event. If you ride your horse into the arena, you can’t tell him to do dressage and you’ll sit up there and go with him. You can’t ride him into a paddock full of jumps in the hope that he will practice jumping. If you try it, a horse will get lost and do his own thing – and it wouldn’t matter if you were there or not. It is not possible to have a workable relationship with a horse where you present no plan to him. In a situation like that you are only a pimple on his back with nothing to offer him.
Offering a horse a plan is offering him leadership. It gives a purpose as to why you are sitting on him. If you are riding in a way that makes him feel there is no plan being enacted, then you are offering him no sense of reason why you even pulled him out of the paddock.
Having a relationship with another horse is natural and instinctive to a horse. But having a relationship with a person is not natural or instinctive. It has to be learned. Part of that learning process is providing a reason that he can understand why you are even on his back. This is where the clarity of a plan comes into building a relationship. If it is clear to a horse that there is a plan and the human is an integral part of supplying that plan, a horse can sense purpose in the relationship with a person. When you enter the paddock to catch your horse, he should know that you are there because there is a job to be done – whether the job is to hang around and eat grass or compete at a show or haul logs out of the forest doesn’t matter. It’s part of the role of leadership to offer a horse a purpose to the job at hand and you can’t do that if it is not clear to the horse that there is a plan. If he believes there is no plan, the job is aimless and the relationship is pointless.
I was discussing with a new client last week about the importance of offering leadership to a horse. I gave her the reason most of us have heard a millions times about how horses have a natural need to exist in a hierarchy rather than a democracy. Offering a horse leadership is offering them a comfort that all is right in the world and everything is in its natural order.
But as I was discussing this concept with the client it occurred to me that my explanation to her was only part of the reason why leadership is important in developing a good relationship with a horse.
I’m not sure that I can explain my thinking clearly here because I’m still sorting it out in my head. But it is to do with the fact that horses cannot plan ahead. They live in the moment and although they can learn to associate one event with another, they can’t extrapolate ahead to something that has not been learned by repetition. For example, they can learn that being saddled will lead to being ridden. If you saddle your horse enough times and ride them immediately after being saddled, they learn that saddling causes riding. But they can’t then extrapolate to the idea that saddling causes trail riding, jumping, circles etc unless you always have a routine of doing the same thing. But even then it is not planning ahead, it is predicting ahead.
Because horses cannot plan, they are not in a position to take the role of leading an event. If you ride your horse into the arena, you can’t tell him to do dressage and you’ll sit up there and go with him. You can’t ride him into a paddock full of jumps in the hope that he will practice jumping. If you try it, a horse will get lost and do his own thing – and it wouldn’t matter if you were there or not. It is not possible to have a workable relationship with a horse where you present no plan to him. In a situation like that you are only a pimple on his back with nothing to offer him.
Offering a horse a plan is offering him leadership. It gives a purpose as to why you are sitting on him. If you are riding in a way that makes him feel there is no plan being enacted, then you are offering him no sense of reason why you even pulled him out of the paddock.
Having a relationship with another horse is natural and instinctive to a horse. But having a relationship with a person is not natural or instinctive. It has to be learned. Part of that learning process is providing a reason that he can understand why you are even on his back. This is where the clarity of a plan comes into building a relationship. If it is clear to a horse that there is a plan and the human is an integral part of supplying that plan, a horse can sense purpose in the relationship with a person. When you enter the paddock to catch your horse, he should know that you are there because there is a job to be done – whether the job is to hang around and eat grass or compete at a show or haul logs out of the forest doesn’t matter. It’s part of the role of leadership to offer a horse a purpose to the job at hand and you can’t do that if it is not clear to the horse that there is a plan. If he believes there is no plan, the job is aimless and the relationship is pointless.
Filed in: training
Phillipe Karl Deserting His Students
I heard a few days ago that Phillipe Karl has announced that from now on he will only be doing clinics for students enrolled in his advance teaching courses.
In Australia there are many riders who applied and were accepted into Karl’s trainee instructor course. Part of the deal was that Karl himself would visit once a year to teach and assess his students. However, now he is leaving it up to his instructors to complete the training and assessment of the trainee instructors.
My personal feeling is that Karl is neglecting his responsibilities. People enrolled in his course with the belief that they would receive instruction from the master firsthand at least once a year for the duration of the course. They paid a very large sum of money to be certified and it would appear that Karl does not seem to care enough about his students to meet his promised obligations. Even if there is a legitimate reason, such a bad health, he owes a legitimate explanation to his students. But from the e-mail that was distributed to folks on his mailing list there is no good explanation except that he wants to reduce his workload. This can only make one suspicious that Karl’s drive to help his students it less important than some alternative motives.
I believe that Karl owes it to the present group of students to fulfil the promise he made at the time they enrolled. If he wants to stop travelling and reduce his workload he should make that clear to the next group of students before they enrol and spent their thousands of dollars.
I strongly believe that this will be the end of the Phillipe Karl juggernaut that tried to change the dressage world. Karl is the face of the legrete movement and if he is invisible in this country there little chance that it will attract new disciples in the future.
In Australia there are many riders who applied and were accepted into Karl’s trainee instructor course. Part of the deal was that Karl himself would visit once a year to teach and assess his students. However, now he is leaving it up to his instructors to complete the training and assessment of the trainee instructors.
My personal feeling is that Karl is neglecting his responsibilities. People enrolled in his course with the belief that they would receive instruction from the master firsthand at least once a year for the duration of the course. They paid a very large sum of money to be certified and it would appear that Karl does not seem to care enough about his students to meet his promised obligations. Even if there is a legitimate reason, such a bad health, he owes a legitimate explanation to his students. But from the e-mail that was distributed to folks on his mailing list there is no good explanation except that he wants to reduce his workload. This can only make one suspicious that Karl’s drive to help his students it less important than some alternative motives.
I believe that Karl owes it to the present group of students to fulfil the promise he made at the time they enrolled. If he wants to stop travelling and reduce his workload he should make that clear to the next group of students before they enrol and spent their thousands of dollars.
I strongly believe that this will be the end of the Phillipe Karl juggernaut that tried to change the dressage world. Karl is the face of the legrete movement and if he is invisible in this country there little chance that it will attract new disciples in the future.
Filed in: training
Panic In The Float
Hi Ross, I have just been recommended you by a client of mine, Jo White who's clidie cross you used in one of your clinics many years ago. I have a 5yo warmblood mare that I have had for 8 months and have had all sorts of issues floating her. She came down from Qld on a truck having never travelled before and I think the trip has terrified her. I have spent months training her to load and stand on the float and also done desensitising while she is on there and she is now great. As soon as we start traveling she panics and has tried to go up, turn around, pretty much anything she can to try and get out of the float. She is frightened of the movement. I have tried blocking the windows with no success. I have considered purchasing a new angle load float as i thought that may help but wasn't sure if this was going to fix the issue. I am a fairly experienced horse person but her problems seem to be too big a challenge for my knowledge. I am just frightened she will get hurt. I am getting a little disheartened as I was hoping to have her out and about by now as I have huge aspirations for her! I noticed you are doing a clinic soon at Maccelesfield. I keep my mare in upper beaconsfield which is only 15mins away from there. I would love to attend your clinic so we can work on her problems but I can't get her there! Is there any chance your clinic could extend to where I keep her? If not is there anything you could suggest I do? She is a special case! Thanks Kindly, Jessie Fleming
It sounds like your horse is a variation of a scrambler, which is a horse that panics because it fears losing its balance. They often scrambled against the walls or stomp their feet a lot or try to scramble across the chest bar etc. Normally you only see this behaviour in straight load floats and not angle floats or side facing trucks.
The clinic in Macclesfield is not mine, but one that I am organizing for an American friend, Harry Whitney. Even though I will be in Macclesfield at the time, it won't be possible for me to spend any time with your horse because of time restrictions.
My first thought is to ask if your float is too small for your horse? Most Clydie X won't fit into anything but a custom built large float. Height, width and length of the bays need to be extra large. I don't mean to sound condescending, but experience has taught me that many people expect their horses to be okay fitting into a float that is too small.
Next, have you tried to float her with the centre divider removed? This allows them greater room to spread their legs and position themselves more at an angle to the line of travel. It can sometimes make a difference, but will depend on the horse. You can also try to borrow an angle float from somebody to see if it makes a difference.
Another thing that has helped some horses are exercises that can help them with confidence to move their feet while inside the float. You can teach to move her hindquarters to the left and right while standing in the float. Also, teacher he to pick up her feet while standing in the float. Teach her to back out the float 1 step and stop. Then 1 step forward and stop - in other words put some discipline in the movement of her feet. Spend a few days in the arena to teach her to lead from her feet from a rope around them. Use a soft rope around a fetlock to teach her to walk forward, stop, backup etc - do it for each foot. You do this by putting a feel in the rope and then follow with asking the same from the halter - release both ropes the moment she tries. Pretty soon you can dispense with the halter altogether.
When you do try floating again, keep the trips really short at first - like 20 feet - before unloading her and letting her pick at some grass or just rest. Repeat this many many times. As she gets better taker her for longer trips before unloading her. I drive around a paddock for this and load/unload 20 times or more in just one session.
None of these suggestions are guaranteed. They are simply approaches that may help her gain more confidence about using her feet to balance which in turn may help her feel more confident in a moving float.
Alternatively you could contact a friend of mine to visit you and offer some suggestions. Her name is Marina Morton and can be contacted via
But you may find that your only choice comes down to buying an angle float or a truck.
I wish you luck. Let me know if you have success.
Hi Ross, Thanks for your help. I have considered purchasing a new float to see if that helps. I have heard that an angle load float can help. My float is quite old but very extended. It use to be Andrew Hoy's so it is quite roomy. Although the roof is of standard height it does concern me a little as my girl is 16.3 and when she is unsure, she gets her head up very high. I have taught her to lower her head and to walk on step at a time on and off the float over and over and over again. She is very smart but when fear is added to the equation, the training seems to go out the window! She will just be getting her confidence and as soon as you start moving she panics, (rearing, trying to turn around or sit down on the tail gate thinking if she pushes hard enough maybe it will open and she will be free!) and then we have to start again the next session with just the loading process so she isn't so stressed. If someone is in there with her she can actually stand still and keep her balance and not scrambling at all just eyes popping out of her head with fear. I took your advise and tried her in a friends angle load float the day that i received your email. I was very excited thinking that it was my solution. Unfortunately she was more frightened. I guess because it was all different. I didnt rush her and spent quite some time going on and off a step at a time but when we finally got to the point of shuting the divider she became very tense. After about 10mins of just standing next to her calming her, someone walked past the float window and she panicked, rearing up 3 times and went backwards squishing her bum in the back corner almost sitting down. It was as if she thought she could just throw herself backwards and escape. She just wanted to get out! We didn't even try to travel. Today I went back to schooling in my float. I though she might be more relaxed in that as we have been training in it for 6 months. She started out very nervouse but listened for every signal i gave her. I didnt shut her in as i was to worried she was still not relaxed enough but she was definitely better than the day before in the angle load. So i guess I just have to gain her trust again before we try moving again. I really feel like it is one step forward and one step backwards. Will I ever get her there? I am just so frightened she is going to hurt herself. She is a sensitive mare as she did panic in a very similar manner in the tye ups (which are quite enclosed like a bay in the float) when the farrier first shod her. She reared and tried to sit down on the back rail which is what she does in the float. Just a thought but maybe its more claustrophobia?? She is better in those tye ups now but on a spooky day she wouldn't stay tied up in there. Thank you for listening to me. I guess I just need some light at the end of the tunnel, some hope and definitely some guidance! Thanks kindly, Jessie
I don't know what to tell you and I think it may be a good idea to get a good professional to assess the situation if you feel stuck about where to go from here. I think you are right not to rush her. She needs to gain confidence instead of being told to get over herself. I wish I had an answer for you and I wish you lots of luck.
Hi Ross, I have just been recommended you by a client of mine, Jo White who's clidie cross you used in one of your clinics many years ago. I have a 5yo warmblood mare that I have had for 8 months and have had all sorts of issues floating her. She came down from Qld on a truck having never travelled before and I think the trip has terrified her. I have spent months training her to load and stand on the float and also done desensitising while she is on there and she is now great. As soon as we start traveling she panics and has tried to go up, turn around, pretty much anything she can to try and get out of the float. She is frightened of the movement. I have tried blocking the windows with no success. I have considered purchasing a new angle load float as i thought that may help but wasn't sure if this was going to fix the issue. I am a fairly experienced horse person but her problems seem to be too big a challenge for my knowledge. I am just frightened she will get hurt. I am getting a little disheartened as I was hoping to have her out and about by now as I have huge aspirations for her! I noticed you are doing a clinic soon at Maccelesfield. I keep my mare in upper beaconsfield which is only 15mins away from there. I would love to attend your clinic so we can work on her problems but I can't get her there! Is there any chance your clinic could extend to where I keep her? If not is there anything you could suggest I do? She is a special case! Thanks Kindly, Jessie Fleming
It sounds like your horse is a variation of a scrambler, which is a horse that panics because it fears losing its balance. They often scrambled against the walls or stomp their feet a lot or try to scramble across the chest bar etc. Normally you only see this behaviour in straight load floats and not angle floats or side facing trucks.
The clinic in Macclesfield is not mine, but one that I am organizing for an American friend, Harry Whitney. Even though I will be in Macclesfield at the time, it won't be possible for me to spend any time with your horse because of time restrictions.
My first thought is to ask if your float is too small for your horse? Most Clydie X won't fit into anything but a custom built large float. Height, width and length of the bays need to be extra large. I don't mean to sound condescending, but experience has taught me that many people expect their horses to be okay fitting into a float that is too small.
Next, have you tried to float her with the centre divider removed? This allows them greater room to spread their legs and position themselves more at an angle to the line of travel. It can sometimes make a difference, but will depend on the horse. You can also try to borrow an angle float from somebody to see if it makes a difference.
Another thing that has helped some horses are exercises that can help them with confidence to move their feet while inside the float. You can teach to move her hindquarters to the left and right while standing in the float. Also, teacher he to pick up her feet while standing in the float. Teach her to back out the float 1 step and stop. Then 1 step forward and stop - in other words put some discipline in the movement of her feet. Spend a few days in the arena to teach her to lead from her feet from a rope around them. Use a soft rope around a fetlock to teach her to walk forward, stop, backup etc - do it for each foot. You do this by putting a feel in the rope and then follow with asking the same from the halter - release both ropes the moment she tries. Pretty soon you can dispense with the halter altogether.
When you do try floating again, keep the trips really short at first - like 20 feet - before unloading her and letting her pick at some grass or just rest. Repeat this many many times. As she gets better taker her for longer trips before unloading her. I drive around a paddock for this and load/unload 20 times or more in just one session.
None of these suggestions are guaranteed. They are simply approaches that may help her gain more confidence about using her feet to balance which in turn may help her feel more confident in a moving float.
Alternatively you could contact a friend of mine to visit you and offer some suggestions. Her name is Marina Morton and can be contacted via
But you may find that your only choice comes down to buying an angle float or a truck.
I wish you luck. Let me know if you have success.
Hi Ross, Thanks for your help. I have considered purchasing a new float to see if that helps. I have heard that an angle load float can help. My float is quite old but very extended. It use to be Andrew Hoy's so it is quite roomy. Although the roof is of standard height it does concern me a little as my girl is 16.3 and when she is unsure, she gets her head up very high. I have taught her to lower her head and to walk on step at a time on and off the float over and over and over again. She is very smart but when fear is added to the equation, the training seems to go out the window! She will just be getting her confidence and as soon as you start moving she panics, (rearing, trying to turn around or sit down on the tail gate thinking if she pushes hard enough maybe it will open and she will be free!) and then we have to start again the next session with just the loading process so she isn't so stressed. If someone is in there with her she can actually stand still and keep her balance and not scrambling at all just eyes popping out of her head with fear. I took your advise and tried her in a friends angle load float the day that i received your email. I was very excited thinking that it was my solution. Unfortunately she was more frightened. I guess because it was all different. I didnt rush her and spent quite some time going on and off a step at a time but when we finally got to the point of shuting the divider she became very tense. After about 10mins of just standing next to her calming her, someone walked past the float window and she panicked, rearing up 3 times and went backwards squishing her bum in the back corner almost sitting down. It was as if she thought she could just throw herself backwards and escape. She just wanted to get out! We didn't even try to travel. Today I went back to schooling in my float. I though she might be more relaxed in that as we have been training in it for 6 months. She started out very nervouse but listened for every signal i gave her. I didnt shut her in as i was to worried she was still not relaxed enough but she was definitely better than the day before in the angle load. So i guess I just have to gain her trust again before we try moving again. I really feel like it is one step forward and one step backwards. Will I ever get her there? I am just so frightened she is going to hurt herself. She is a sensitive mare as she did panic in a very similar manner in the tye ups (which are quite enclosed like a bay in the float) when the farrier first shod her. She reared and tried to sit down on the back rail which is what she does in the float. Just a thought but maybe its more claustrophobia?? She is better in those tye ups now but on a spooky day she wouldn't stay tied up in there. Thank you for listening to me. I guess I just need some light at the end of the tunnel, some hope and definitely some guidance! Thanks kindly, Jessie
I don't know what to tell you and I think it may be a good idea to get a good professional to assess the situation if you feel stuck about where to go from here. I think you are right not to rush her. She needs to gain confidence instead of being told to get over herself. I wish I had an answer for you and I wish you lots of luck.
11 January, 2012
I’ll be away for a few days. Off to see family in Sydney then collect Harry from the airport on Sunday and back home. So there will be a break from the blog for several days.
Filed in: training
The Sour Horse – What Not To Do
I think this video is a good example of where I believe people get the wrong end of a horse.
I think this video is a good example of where I believe people get the wrong end of a horse.
In the clip the horse expresses ear pinning and sour behaviour when the trainer (Rick Gore) approaches. Rick considers this as a lack of respect and poor attitude that was taught to the horse by the owner. He suggests the horse learned to be snitchy because whenever she acted this way the owner probably backed away and left her alone, thereby confirming the behaviour in the mares mind as the right behaviour.
I agree with Rick that this is the likely reason the behaviour has become habitual. But I don’t agree that this was probably the likely cause in the first place. It probably began because the horse felt bad about something somebody was doing to it. Then it learned that if it pinned its ears people would leave it alone. With that in mind, my biggest concern with the video is the way in which Rick went about trying to change the behaviour. Rick proposes that the solution lies in (i) not giving up space to the horse when it pins its ears, and (ii) drive the horse away until it demonstrates a better expression.
To me, this is the fundamental difference between changing behaviour and changing attitude.
The mare is sour because of how she feels about somebody coming into her space. I don’t know why she feels that way, but it is a genuine expression of her feelings. It is not about disrespect or one upmanship on the part of the horse – horses don’t have such agendas. It occurs because the horse truly feels at that moment that somebody coming into her space is a bad deal for her.
I wholeheartedly agree with Rick that he should not get out of her space. But I disagree that driving the mare away will help resolve the issue. By driving the mare, he only confirms in her mind that she was right to feel bad about a person approaching. She knew it was going to be a bad deal and he confirmed it. Rick made exactly the same mistake as the owner did in confirming that the horse was correct to feel the way it did – only Rick did it in a different way.
By driving the horse away you can change the behaviour of the horse, but you won’t change the attitude. The horse may learn that she should not pin her ears when Rick approaches (if she doesn’t want to be driven around the yard). But the bad feelings that accompanied the ear pinning will remain. Rick is addressing the outside of the horse but not the inside of the horse, which is the cause of the problem. It’s a mechanical fix to a non-mechanical problem.
My fix would be to ignore the ear pinning. I would not get out of her space, but I also wouldn’t be doing anything to make her feel worse. I would just go about my business. If I am on the right track with my training, a horse’s feelings towards me should soften and improve each day, week and month. Not because I did something every time it pinned its ears, but because of the way I approached the catching, leading, saddling, feeding, mounting, bridling, brushing, trailer loading, riding down the road, training the half pass – everything.
When Michele and I first got Birch from Project Hope, the mare was sour about most things from catching to girthing to using a leg on her etc. It was a nightmare at first. But Michele ignored all the ear pinning, the head flipping, the turning her tail. She just went about her training – always asking for focus and softness in absolutely everything she did. It probably took more than 12 months before we noticed that we hardly ever saw Birch get pissy about something we did. Yet, Michele never directly addressed the pissy-ness. She just worked the horse to eradicate the resistances that you would with any horse. As resistance dissipated, so did the sour expression, because in the process of improving the softness of the horse, the bad feelings (that caused the resistance and ear pinning) gradually melted away.
So my advice is when you have a sour horse don’t be training the ears. Forget about the ears and concentrate on helping your horse feel better about working with you. The ears will take care of themselves.
Filed in: training
Liberty Training
Hello Ross,
This is the first time I have written to you.
Often what I read on your site makes good sense to me even though we may use different techniques. In saying that I would not like you to think I am a competent trainer of my horse. Rather I try to make competent decisions about who (my teachers or me) does what with her and that involves a lot of thinking, reading, watching etc.
I like the way your thinking avoids the pitfalls of humanising the horses and focuses on gratification of the horse versus the human. You seem to be about helping the ridden horse physically and emotionally in their non-voluntary role without too much hoo- hah but with attention to necessary detail such as good biomechanics of movement.
Anyway, the liberty work comment resonated for me. I don’t see much point in much of it for the horse either. It seems to me to be more about making humans look and feel good. Horses don’t need to do it to be ridden. It is just another thing to learn. But, I am wondering if the reliance on the visual cues of the handler puts almost unrelenting pressure on the horse and that this contributes to the sourness you speak of.
It seems to me there is no release from the horse needing to watch the handler for every little change. The horse must watch all the time and do the movements. The ask-do-release sequence is eroded, as the requirement to keep watching is constant. Having the handler just there alongside or similar is not something the horse can become habituated to as with the rider on his/her back as it is a requirement to keep aware. Maybe, having to watch a competent handler is more stressful than carrying a competent rider who is careful to provide clarity with the aids.
I confess I am not a fan of reliance on visual cues anyway as I believe it places unnecessary pressure on horses that need to relax between asks and because we want them to be non- reactive to many visual environmental stimuli. Again, I think it is more about making humans look good when horses really need aids and cues that are easy to make with clarity. Humans move a lot so visual cues can be difficult to learn and discriminate from meaningless movement for the horse I think. Using visual cues doesn’t make the learning easier for horses I don’t think.
Perhaps, an imbalance between pressure and release and anxiety related to difficulty in developing a clear interpretation in the learning, may contribute to the sourness. Clarity is achieved at the price of relaxation.
Perhaps liberty work cannot be learnt in the manner of ballet or martial arts as ridden signals can be because the horse is having to pay full attention to constant stimuli.
Thank you,
Suzanne
Thanks you for your thoughts on the issue of liberty training. It is an interesting proposal that liberty training requires more focus of a horse in a stressful fashion.
I think you are right that for many folks there is a level of showmanship in training liberty work. I don't see a lot of advantage in it for most people. Except I would say that if you can achieve correctness in the way a horse moves without reins, then I think it is a good indicator that you really are working through directing the thoughts of your horse, rather than just being able to push and pull them through the movements. It would be like a test of how much you have working for you. The exercises themselves are not important, but the quality and correctness of them tells you a lot about how much your horse is connected to you. That's why it bothers me to see so many examples of poorly executed movements at liberty. It goes to show that the horse is not connected to the rider or handler despite the horse politely doing everything asked of it. If the same quality was observed in a horse with reins or lead rope fitted, most people would be highly critical. But because the horse is at liberty it seems all sins are forgiven.
I agree that working from liberty does require a good degree of focus, but I am unsure if this is much different than if I was working with the same horse on line or under saddle. I still work towards a high degree of concentration from my horse, with or without gear. But whether or not the horse sees that as more or less stressful at liberty, I don't know.
Your reply was brilliant - balanced. It is, as you rightly pointed out, important to recognise that good liberty work is an opportunity to demonstrate clear shared understanding and connection.
Like self-carriage with reins in a way.
Maybe the distinction however is not so clear for the horse. Perhaps for the horse it doesn’t matter if you are jogging alongside with a stick or whip or riding with reins – they just know they are under pressure to do things for us.
Maybe though with liberty the horse just wants or deserves to be able to keep the horse in the horse as you say without our expectations overriding their at liberty time. Maybe being geared up helps make the distinction for the horse if we respect that at liberty is at liberty to do what horses do.
Both require focus but there may be more opportunity for /clarity with on-line so it is perhaps less anxiety creating. Maybe there is more opportunity practice incorrect responses in liberty work so there may be more need for more and/or bigger correction perhaps?
Cheers too.
Suzanne & Bindi
I pretty much agree with your thoughts. I wish I could dig deeper inside a horse's mind to know for sure about how they perceive different pressures. When Harry gets here on Sunday, I think I'll ask him why he thinks it appears to be more difficult to produce correct and happy horses with liberty work than will ropes and reins. He always has ideas worth arguing about.
Hello Ross,
This is the first time I have written to you.
Often what I read on your site makes good sense to me even though we may use different techniques. In saying that I would not like you to think I am a competent trainer of my horse. Rather I try to make competent decisions about who (my teachers or me) does what with her and that involves a lot of thinking, reading, watching etc.
I like the way your thinking avoids the pitfalls of humanising the horses and focuses on gratification of the horse versus the human. You seem to be about helping the ridden horse physically and emotionally in their non-voluntary role without too much hoo- hah but with attention to necessary detail such as good biomechanics of movement.
Anyway, the liberty work comment resonated for me. I don’t see much point in much of it for the horse either. It seems to me to be more about making humans look and feel good. Horses don’t need to do it to be ridden. It is just another thing to learn. But, I am wondering if the reliance on the visual cues of the handler puts almost unrelenting pressure on the horse and that this contributes to the sourness you speak of.
It seems to me there is no release from the horse needing to watch the handler for every little change. The horse must watch all the time and do the movements. The ask-do-release sequence is eroded, as the requirement to keep watching is constant. Having the handler just there alongside or similar is not something the horse can become habituated to as with the rider on his/her back as it is a requirement to keep aware. Maybe, having to watch a competent handler is more stressful than carrying a competent rider who is careful to provide clarity with the aids.
I confess I am not a fan of reliance on visual cues anyway as I believe it places unnecessary pressure on horses that need to relax between asks and because we want them to be non- reactive to many visual environmental stimuli. Again, I think it is more about making humans look good when horses really need aids and cues that are easy to make with clarity. Humans move a lot so visual cues can be difficult to learn and discriminate from meaningless movement for the horse I think. Using visual cues doesn’t make the learning easier for horses I don’t think.
Perhaps, an imbalance between pressure and release and anxiety related to difficulty in developing a clear interpretation in the learning, may contribute to the sourness. Clarity is achieved at the price of relaxation.
Perhaps liberty work cannot be learnt in the manner of ballet or martial arts as ridden signals can be because the horse is having to pay full attention to constant stimuli.
Thank you,
Suzanne
Thanks you for your thoughts on the issue of liberty training. It is an interesting proposal that liberty training requires more focus of a horse in a stressful fashion.
I think you are right that for many folks there is a level of showmanship in training liberty work. I don't see a lot of advantage in it for most people. Except I would say that if you can achieve correctness in the way a horse moves without reins, then I think it is a good indicator that you really are working through directing the thoughts of your horse, rather than just being able to push and pull them through the movements. It would be like a test of how much you have working for you. The exercises themselves are not important, but the quality and correctness of them tells you a lot about how much your horse is connected to you. That's why it bothers me to see so many examples of poorly executed movements at liberty. It goes to show that the horse is not connected to the rider or handler despite the horse politely doing everything asked of it. If the same quality was observed in a horse with reins or lead rope fitted, most people would be highly critical. But because the horse is at liberty it seems all sins are forgiven.
I agree that working from liberty does require a good degree of focus, but I am unsure if this is much different than if I was working with the same horse on line or under saddle. I still work towards a high degree of concentration from my horse, with or without gear. But whether or not the horse sees that as more or less stressful at liberty, I don't know.
Your reply was brilliant - balanced. It is, as you rightly pointed out, important to recognise that good liberty work is an opportunity to demonstrate clear shared understanding and connection.
Like self-carriage with reins in a way.
Maybe the distinction however is not so clear for the horse. Perhaps for the horse it doesn’t matter if you are jogging alongside with a stick or whip or riding with reins – they just know they are under pressure to do things for us.
Maybe though with liberty the horse just wants or deserves to be able to keep the horse in the horse as you say without our expectations overriding their at liberty time. Maybe being geared up helps make the distinction for the horse if we respect that at liberty is at liberty to do what horses do.
Both require focus but there may be more opportunity for /clarity with on-line so it is perhaps less anxiety creating. Maybe there is more opportunity practice incorrect responses in liberty work so there may be more need for more and/or bigger correction perhaps?
Cheers too.
Suzanne & Bindi
I pretty much agree with your thoughts. I wish I could dig deeper inside a horse's mind to know for sure about how they perceive different pressures. When Harry gets here on Sunday, I think I'll ask him why he thinks it appears to be more difficult to produce correct and happy horses with liberty work than will ropes and reins. He always has ideas worth arguing about.
Filed in: training
Is This Good Or Not?
I really want to like this video clip. The horses show energy and correctness for the most part and this style of dressage really appeals to me. But I am having trouble getting past the lip flapping that the first two horses show. They are relatively young horses that are still in the training stage. The older white horse does not show the lip flapping. So I’m hoping that the lip flapping is something the younger horses do as part of the normal tension that all horses experience when learning new things. But it is interesting to me that so many of Branderup’s horses do express their tension through their mouth rather than other forms. If it wasn’t for the lips, I’d be pretty impressed. But it does mean something and it can’t be ignored.
I would really like to spend some time with Branderup to study and understand his training. I may come away feeling better or worse about it. Afterall, I liked Phillipe Karl until I saw him.
8 January, 2012
Filed in: training
Liberty Training
Shea Stewart sent me a link to the video clip below. I’m putting it up because I think it is one of the very few examples of a horse at liberty that shows correctness in the turns.
Most liberty demonstrations show horses that are counter bent, on their forehand and often very pissy. But for most of this video, this is not the case.
Shea Stewart sent me a link to the video clip below. I’m putting it up because I think it is one of the very few examples of a horse at liberty that shows correctness in the turns.
Most liberty demonstrations show horses that are counter bent, on their forehand and often very pissy. But for most of this video, this is not the case.
There are moments when the brown horse gets a little pissy and a little tight, as in when he is asked to do the turn on the haunches. But overall, it is among the better examples of liberty work I have seen for awhile.
However when I looked at other videos of Susanne Lohas, I saw much worse examples of her training. I was quite disappointed by this. The bit of attitude I noticed in the brown horse in this clip can be seen far worse in other clips. I suspect that the problem lies in the use of food as a reward. I think the sour expression is the result of the horses being fixated on when they may get a treat. I see this over and over again almost universally in horses that have been trained with food treats. It is rare to see a horse that has been trained in this way that is not sour.
So why is good liberty training so hard to achieve?
I don’t really know the answer. Maybe some of you have an idea.
I think part of the reason is that so many people use food as a motivator when training liberty work. Most people don’t know how to use food without creating bad feelings inside a horse when it is withheld. The promise of a treat becomes the reason for doing something and when it is not forthcoming most horses become stressed. This leads to pushy behaviour or sour expressions and even frantic behaviour of trying anything they know in their bag of tricks in the hope it will get them a treat.
But I don’t know that food is the only difficulty with achieving good results with liberty work. Many trainers don’t use food and still produce bad training.
You only have to watch the first minute or so of this video by Guy McLean to see some terrible liberty work.
I don’t think Guy uses food as a reward in his training. Yet, he consistently produces sour and incorrect horses. You can see how annoyed and crooked his horses are in the video clip. Having seen a little of Guy’s training approach, I believe he gets these results by flooding his horses with enough pressure that they become incredibly obedient and submissive, irrespective of their feelings about the work.
This brings up my other thought about why quality liberty training is hard to find. It’s because the eventual aim is to have no physical control over a horse’s movement that most people rely on instilling obedience and submission as the main priority. If you don’t use the promise of food to keep a horse connected to you, some people feel you only have left the horse’s fear of doing the wrong thing. This can become such a powerful motivator to a horse that the influence a trainer may have over the liberty horse is just as strong as if was fitted with every conceivable controlling device invented by man. I think many trainers use this approach to training their liberty horses.
Of course, there is a third choice that can be used to approach liberty training. That is to give the horse choices and make the wrong thing only a little more difficult than the right thing. Let it be that he decides working with you at liberty is his idea and a good idea. But for most of us, giving a horse choices at liberty is often a dangerous thing in our minds. We don’t trust that the horse won’t leave any time things start to fall apart. It is a legitimate fear I guess because things always fall apart at some point.
There are few enough people in the world who know how to make a horse want to work with them when they have gear attached, that there are even fewer who know how to achieve a happy and correct horse when there is no gear. That’s probably why I don’t get serious with liberty training.
So you can see the difficulties with achieving first class results with liberty training. It is hard and not for the ordinary horse person. But what I don’t get is why so many trainers demonstrate such poor quality liberty work? If you can’t do a good job, why put a bad job out on public display? I would just keep working at it at home until I had something I could be proud to show the world. Or I might demonstrate what I have achieved, but talk about the problems and the direction I will be taking to improve things.
But I tend not to do much liberty training, so what do I know?
Filed in: training
Falling In On The Circle
Hi Ross
I wish I had more energy to chat and ask questions but I am a bit weary!
Must say, I am glad I looked at the CD I sent you. Posted 3/1/12. Now I understand why you grimace when I speak! I hate my voice too!!!!!!!!!!!! How whiney and screechy! Poor Tom...
I have copied it to show Janine her own movie segment.
I am debating getting a lesson or two from a dressage girl who is an avid Daryl Crowe fan. She is very strong in her opinions but out of everyone up here I think she might???? be my best bet for dressage/riding help. i WILL JUST HAVE TO KEEP MY OWN OPINIONS TO MYSELF... i suppose................
I have tried pretend dressage tests at home and boy just by trying them out, you realise how crooked and how bad you can ride! Might stick to oblivious trail riding!
In regard to the letter re: bend without HQ yields and no-one answering your question- the answer I always get is- it is just get your horse to relax, or it's a suppling exercise or it's to make sure he is paying atention.... or.... (I cannot member all the other airy fairy stuff.)
BTW, in the video, I ask when should you use the outside rein, and you say, "Never..... etc" Well, what do you do with the inside rein (or do you use leg) to stop the horse from falling in on the circle? do you use the outside rein directing obliquely outwards and say, don't fall in? I find whatever I do with the inside rein(upwards, like tea bag style )will make her come in to a tighter circle. And then I don't end up doing a circle at all because it becomes a slinky snake shaped square or pear shape because I am trying to get her to stay on the line! aRGGGhhhhhhhhhhh, cOME ON hARRY!
I will have to try this video thing out in my spare time..............
Amanda
I look forward to getting the CD.
The answer you give for why people teach the lateral flexion without allowing the horse's hq to move, is the same as I have heard many times. It is argued that it teaches a horse to be flexible and relax. But nobody has yet explained why he can't do that AND disengage his hq at the same time. And nobody has explained what is the advantage of NOT letting him move his hq. I see reasons why you want him to move his hq, but no reasons for not wanting him to move them. I have yet to hear good reasons why you would not want him to move his hq. Of course, I am talking about a green horse here - not an educated horse that already has a good understanding of the reins.
In the video you are sending me if I said "never use the outside rein", I was lying. There will be times when the outside should be used. But I suspect I said "never" to you because of where you are at with your horses. I wouldn't want you to learn to rely on the outside rein during your turns.
If your horse falls out through the shoulder (at the stage of education it is), don't use the outside rein to correct it. Instead, you can do either of two things. Actually, you have choices of more than two things, but there are two things that you already know how to do which you can use.
You can ask for a hq yield to the inside. Keep asking until the horse is soft and thinking in the direction of the turn. Release the hq yield when you get a change of thought.
The alternative is to ask for a forehand yield using your inside rein that you take wide towards your knee. Again, release for the change of thought.
In both cases, don't have contact with the outside rein (unless you feel it is unsafe) and don't release until your horse is thinking to the inside of the turn. You will feel when he changes because he will lighten in front end, you won't feel you are being tipped to the inside, the rein will feel lighter and you'll see from the corner of the horse's inside eye look to the inside.
It is not a matter of just doing the exercise of a hq or a forehand yield and then release. You have to wait until you get some semblance of a change. And forget about the shape of your circle. The circle is not important if your horse can not follow the line of the circle. He needs to learn to follow the feel of the reins before he can give you a decent circle. Never let a turn go uncorrected if it is wrong. Every step of a circle is a turn and you may find your first 6 steps are great, but your 7th step he is falling to the outside. Fix it then and forget about losing the shape of your circle. Once you get a change in response to the inside rein, start a new circle. If your 2nd step of your new circle is crooked, fix it and then start another new circle. I'm sure you get the picture.
I hope that answers your questions.
Thanks Ross,
I have been doing that but maybe too much and maybe I havent relelased early enough, as the horse is collapsing on the inside of the circle and making it very tight and then I feel I need to use the outside rein to say, no, dont fall in! Do you get what I mean? If I lift my inside rein up higher she just brings her head up and continues to do tiny circle. Today I thought, when she does that, I will change direction and try to circle the other way, it seemed to help a bit, but only once........ :-(
My horse might be going along ok but looking to the outside, so I do what we were working on in the video, getting her head/neck to come to the inside, but then she comes in too tightly and the 20m circle becomes 5m. What do I do to help her stay out on the circle? I will have another read on what you have said, this is just my first take on it. Just got home from a meeting :-(
Amanda
I'm sorry Amanda that I didn't read your question properly. Stupid me!
If your horse is falling in on the circle, then you are doing too much with your inside rein. Do less if you can. But if it has become a habitual response to the inside rein, then you should block the shoulder falling in. This can be done by
(i) use a little outside rein to put him back on the line. Notice I said "put" him on the line and not "keep" him on the line. Allow your horse to deviate some and then use the outside rein to bring him back to the line you were riding, then release. Don't hold the outside rein to prevent him from falling in, just use it as a correction. Make sure he yields his thought to go back to the line and not just tip his nose to the outside or hang on the outside rein.
(ii) leg yield him back to the line. Use inside rein and inside leg to get him to step sideways to the outside. Release your aids when he is on the line again. Again, it is a correction and not meant to hold him on the line. It helps a lot if you get him to lift his shoulders when he steps to the side.
But I suspect your horse does not leg yield very well, so point 3 is a modification of that
(iii) when you feel him start to drop his shoulder to the inside, stop him, back him until his weight is a little off his forehand, then use your outside rein to step the shoulder to the outside (like a forehand yield) and then release and ride on your line again. It is the lifting of the shoulder and stepping it back to the circle line that is important. You need to be aware the moment he starts to fall in and do something about it then.
Whether or not any of these options will be helpful will depend on quality that you do them (do you get a change of thought?), the consistency you do them (do you make the correction every time he falls in?) and how good your timing is (do you catch the correction early and do you release at the right moment?).
I hope that helps and again I apologize for not reading your correctly.
Hi Ross
I wish I had more energy to chat and ask questions but I am a bit weary!
Must say, I am glad I looked at the CD I sent you. Posted 3/1/12. Now I understand why you grimace when I speak! I hate my voice too!!!!!!!!!!!! How whiney and screechy! Poor Tom...
I have copied it to show Janine her own movie segment.
I am debating getting a lesson or two from a dressage girl who is an avid Daryl Crowe fan. She is very strong in her opinions but out of everyone up here I think she might???? be my best bet for dressage/riding help. i WILL JUST HAVE TO KEEP MY OWN OPINIONS TO MYSELF... i suppose................
I have tried pretend dressage tests at home and boy just by trying them out, you realise how crooked and how bad you can ride! Might stick to oblivious trail riding!
In regard to the letter re: bend without HQ yields and no-one answering your question- the answer I always get is- it is just get your horse to relax, or it's a suppling exercise or it's to make sure he is paying atention.... or.... (I cannot member all the other airy fairy stuff.)
BTW, in the video, I ask when should you use the outside rein, and you say, "Never..... etc" Well, what do you do with the inside rein (or do you use leg) to stop the horse from falling in on the circle? do you use the outside rein directing obliquely outwards and say, don't fall in? I find whatever I do with the inside rein(upwards, like tea bag style )will make her come in to a tighter circle. And then I don't end up doing a circle at all because it becomes a slinky snake shaped square or pear shape because I am trying to get her to stay on the line! aRGGGhhhhhhhhhhh, cOME ON hARRY!
I will have to try this video thing out in my spare time..............
Amanda
I look forward to getting the CD.
The answer you give for why people teach the lateral flexion without allowing the horse's hq to move, is the same as I have heard many times. It is argued that it teaches a horse to be flexible and relax. But nobody has yet explained why he can't do that AND disengage his hq at the same time. And nobody has explained what is the advantage of NOT letting him move his hq. I see reasons why you want him to move his hq, but no reasons for not wanting him to move them. I have yet to hear good reasons why you would not want him to move his hq. Of course, I am talking about a green horse here - not an educated horse that already has a good understanding of the reins.
In the video you are sending me if I said "never use the outside rein", I was lying. There will be times when the outside should be used. But I suspect I said "never" to you because of where you are at with your horses. I wouldn't want you to learn to rely on the outside rein during your turns.
If your horse falls out through the shoulder (at the stage of education it is), don't use the outside rein to correct it. Instead, you can do either of two things. Actually, you have choices of more than two things, but there are two things that you already know how to do which you can use.
You can ask for a hq yield to the inside. Keep asking until the horse is soft and thinking in the direction of the turn. Release the hq yield when you get a change of thought.
The alternative is to ask for a forehand yield using your inside rein that you take wide towards your knee. Again, release for the change of thought.
In both cases, don't have contact with the outside rein (unless you feel it is unsafe) and don't release until your horse is thinking to the inside of the turn. You will feel when he changes because he will lighten in front end, you won't feel you are being tipped to the inside, the rein will feel lighter and you'll see from the corner of the horse's inside eye look to the inside.
It is not a matter of just doing the exercise of a hq or a forehand yield and then release. You have to wait until you get some semblance of a change. And forget about the shape of your circle. The circle is not important if your horse can not follow the line of the circle. He needs to learn to follow the feel of the reins before he can give you a decent circle. Never let a turn go uncorrected if it is wrong. Every step of a circle is a turn and you may find your first 6 steps are great, but your 7th step he is falling to the outside. Fix it then and forget about losing the shape of your circle. Once you get a change in response to the inside rein, start a new circle. If your 2nd step of your new circle is crooked, fix it and then start another new circle. I'm sure you get the picture.
I hope that answers your questions.
Thanks Ross,
I have been doing that but maybe too much and maybe I havent relelased early enough, as the horse is collapsing on the inside of the circle and making it very tight and then I feel I need to use the outside rein to say, no, dont fall in! Do you get what I mean? If I lift my inside rein up higher she just brings her head up and continues to do tiny circle. Today I thought, when she does that, I will change direction and try to circle the other way, it seemed to help a bit, but only once........ :-(
My horse might be going along ok but looking to the outside, so I do what we were working on in the video, getting her head/neck to come to the inside, but then she comes in too tightly and the 20m circle becomes 5m. What do I do to help her stay out on the circle? I will have another read on what you have said, this is just my first take on it. Just got home from a meeting :-(
Amanda
I'm sorry Amanda that I didn't read your question properly. Stupid me!
If your horse is falling in on the circle, then you are doing too much with your inside rein. Do less if you can. But if it has become a habitual response to the inside rein, then you should block the shoulder falling in. This can be done by
(i) use a little outside rein to put him back on the line. Notice I said "put" him on the line and not "keep" him on the line. Allow your horse to deviate some and then use the outside rein to bring him back to the line you were riding, then release. Don't hold the outside rein to prevent him from falling in, just use it as a correction. Make sure he yields his thought to go back to the line and not just tip his nose to the outside or hang on the outside rein.
(ii) leg yield him back to the line. Use inside rein and inside leg to get him to step sideways to the outside. Release your aids when he is on the line again. Again, it is a correction and not meant to hold him on the line. It helps a lot if you get him to lift his shoulders when he steps to the side.
But I suspect your horse does not leg yield very well, so point 3 is a modification of that
(iii) when you feel him start to drop his shoulder to the inside, stop him, back him until his weight is a little off his forehand, then use your outside rein to step the shoulder to the outside (like a forehand yield) and then release and ride on your line again. It is the lifting of the shoulder and stepping it back to the circle line that is important. You need to be aware the moment he starts to fall in and do something about it then.
Whether or not any of these options will be helpful will depend on quality that you do them (do you get a change of thought?), the consistency you do them (do you make the correction every time he falls in?) and how good your timing is (do you catch the correction early and do you release at the right moment?).
I hope that helps and again I apologize for not reading your correctly.
Filed in: training
CAT-H
Hi Ross
Happy new year and congratulations on the new web site - very stylish indeed. I think your video feedback is a great idea and you'll probably be inundated. Cooper and I have just started having lessons with Marina Morton, and she is proving very helpful, so we are travelling along quite nicely and it's lovely to feel like we're making regular progress. Having that one lesson with you all that time ago (nearly a year now) made a big difference for us, but it's the clarity of your explanations on your web site that have really kept us on this path to improvement. So thanks from me, and also from Cooper, who I'm sure REALLY appreciates the change!
Normally I stick to your site and that of Dr Deb Bennett, because I know I will read consistent and reliable information on both. There are so many competing training systems and trainers now that half the battle is working out who to trust! However, I stumbled across an article recently about CAT-H training, and despite the annoying acronym I had a look at their video, and found it quite interesting. I thought the founding principle, of retreat to reward calmness, was effective. But then, halfway through, they start using food as an additional reward, and I think it really demonstrates what you have repeatedly said, that introducing food is not a good idea. It seems to undo all the good work they had previously achieved, as the horse becomes tense and demanding. Would love to hear your thoughts, if you've got time. The article and video, "CAT for Horses," by Laurel Gordon, is at http://www.naturalhorseworld.com/Articles-HorseRiderEducation.htm The video is about 13 minutes.
I hope you're enjoying some drier weather and getting plenty of riding in. Best wishes,
Allaana
I read the article and watched the video clip.
Despite the views of the author, I think the CAT-H is basic approach and retreat methodology that has been around since Moses was a boy. There is nothing magical or innovative about it. They are not re-inventing the wheel. There are many video clips on YouTube that show a very similar approach for catching horses that don't like to be caught. I have no problem with the concept of using approach and retreat to help a horse overcome his anxiety. But I'm not sure this is what is happening in the video clip.
But what I find interesting about the concept is that it is using approach and retreat on horses that don't respond well to clicker training, so that the horse will then respond to clicker training. It is not a training method at all. It is just an exercise that the author has used to get some horses to respond to her training method.
As you suggest, in the video both horses appeared to me to be more interested in the food reward than the human. The paint horse was suspicious of people, but he move closer only for the food reward he knew was hiding in the person's satchel. The horse at the end was really trying to mug his owner for the food and was quite pissed off that he was not readily available. I have seen this a lot with clicker trained horses and a large part of the reason why I don't recommend it for training horses.
I find the whole effort on the part of the authors a little annoying. Giving a method that has been in common use for many years a new label is annoying. It's up there with Monty Roberts calling round yard work "Join-Up" and Paul Williams calling laying down a horse "the tap". But more than that, I have to wonder about the credentials of horse people who put so much importance of getting a horse to feel good enough that it will approach you, then using methods (like clicker training) that will undo any good feelings they may have created.
Again, thanks for the link. I look forward to seeing you in February.
Hi Ross
Happy new year and congratulations on the new web site - very stylish indeed. I think your video feedback is a great idea and you'll probably be inundated. Cooper and I have just started having lessons with Marina Morton, and she is proving very helpful, so we are travelling along quite nicely and it's lovely to feel like we're making regular progress. Having that one lesson with you all that time ago (nearly a year now) made a big difference for us, but it's the clarity of your explanations on your web site that have really kept us on this path to improvement. So thanks from me, and also from Cooper, who I'm sure REALLY appreciates the change!
Normally I stick to your site and that of Dr Deb Bennett, because I know I will read consistent and reliable information on both. There are so many competing training systems and trainers now that half the battle is working out who to trust! However, I stumbled across an article recently about CAT-H training, and despite the annoying acronym I had a look at their video, and found it quite interesting. I thought the founding principle, of retreat to reward calmness, was effective. But then, halfway through, they start using food as an additional reward, and I think it really demonstrates what you have repeatedly said, that introducing food is not a good idea. It seems to undo all the good work they had previously achieved, as the horse becomes tense and demanding. Would love to hear your thoughts, if you've got time. The article and video, "CAT for Horses," by Laurel Gordon, is at http://www.naturalhorseworld.com/Articles-HorseRiderEducation.htm The video is about 13 minutes.
I hope you're enjoying some drier weather and getting plenty of riding in. Best wishes,
Allaana
I read the article and watched the video clip.
Despite the views of the author, I think the CAT-H is basic approach and retreat methodology that has been around since Moses was a boy. There is nothing magical or innovative about it. They are not re-inventing the wheel. There are many video clips on YouTube that show a very similar approach for catching horses that don't like to be caught. I have no problem with the concept of using approach and retreat to help a horse overcome his anxiety. But I'm not sure this is what is happening in the video clip.
But what I find interesting about the concept is that it is using approach and retreat on horses that don't respond well to clicker training, so that the horse will then respond to clicker training. It is not a training method at all. It is just an exercise that the author has used to get some horses to respond to her training method.
As you suggest, in the video both horses appeared to me to be more interested in the food reward than the human. The paint horse was suspicious of people, but he move closer only for the food reward he knew was hiding in the person's satchel. The horse at the end was really trying to mug his owner for the food and was quite pissed off that he was not readily available. I have seen this a lot with clicker trained horses and a large part of the reason why I don't recommend it for training horses.
I find the whole effort on the part of the authors a little annoying. Giving a method that has been in common use for many years a new label is annoying. It's up there with Monty Roberts calling round yard work "Join-Up" and Paul Williams calling laying down a horse "the tap". But more than that, I have to wonder about the credentials of horse people who put so much importance of getting a horse to feel good enough that it will approach you, then using methods (like clicker training) that will undo any good feelings they may have created.
Again, thanks for the link. I look forward to seeing you in February.
Filed in: training
Pigrooting In The Canter Transition
Hi Ross,
If you could part with some of your pearls of wisdom I'd really appreciate some advice please. I hope I can explain the situation clearly enough for you to make sense of it.
In my recent lessons we have been riding in large circles, working to get Tempest more balanced and travelling correctly because she always want to bend her neck to the right a bit. We have also started to work on canter transitions, which tend to include a few pigroots, and I have assumed it is Tempy's lack of forward that is at the root of the problem.
After a few rides the canter transitions were not improving so I decided to try a few rides in the paddock to see if I could improve her willingness to go forward and get her feeling happier about it. She was more forward, but I am quite sure that the change was just her reaction to the new scenery and not anything I did. We did have our first little gallop and there was no issue with pigrooting, but I should know by now that geographical changes don't fix anything long term.
Anyway, at our next lesson we experimented a little and came to the conclusion that perhaps the issue is not so much a lack of forward, but a lack of balance and the fact that Tempy finds it difficult to maintain a correct bend. The pigrooting is therefore an expression of her unhappiness. Regardless of which direction we are riding, the pigroot is always preceded by her dropping her rear to the left and poking her nose to the right a bit.
A few rides on my own weren't improving things so I tried using the entire arena instead of working in circles. I have been asking for the canter in a corner but then riding a straight line and a long sweeping curve around. The pigrooting has improved, but it is still there. I need to keep mindful of how Tempy is bent and block her from dropping the hindquarters to the left and poking her nose to the right. If I get it right the canter can be quite forward and without the pigrooting.
My idea is to make the canter transition as easy as possible for Tempy, in the hope that her attitude will improve (be more willing to go) if she isn't struggling so much with her balance in a constant bend on a circle. Do you think this is the right approach? If not, do you have any other suggestions?
Thanks for your time.
Ngaire
You say you experimented a little and concluded it was a balance issue and not a forward issue, but you don't say how you determined this. I'd like you to try some things to help determine the cause of the issue.
1. Does Tempy pigroot in the canter transition at liberty in the round yard?
2. Does she pigroot in the round yard without a rider or with a rider (no reins) or both?
3. Does she pigroot with a rider (no reins) if a person on the ground sends her into the canter?
4. Does she pigroot the round yard if the rider (no reins) sends her into the canter?
5. If you ride her in an arena and leave the reins alone and gradually ask for the trot to get bigger and bigger and bigger until she falls into the canter, does she pigroot? Try your best to stay off her mouth.
6. Does she pigroot if somebody else rides her?
If you can get back to me with the answers to those questions, I would be in a better position to make some suggestions. It will help me determine if the problem lies in her crookedness, her lack of forward or her rider.
But having said that, she clearly has a crookedness issue - whether or not it interferes with her canter transitions. I think I worked on that for a bit when I rode her in October at the clinic. In all likelihood you'll find she is crooked in her turns at the walk and trot, let alone the canter transition. That's the place to start. Be picky about riding your line, even if your line goes around corners. If she deviates from the line, put her back on the line as soon as possible. In addition, crookedness usually stems from a resistance through some part of the body. The more you can bend Tempy with minimum resistance the straighter she will become.
In brief, to address the counter bending problem in the turns you need to work on (i) making her more "bendable" and (ii) keeping her thought on the line you are riding. And you must be vigilant about it. It's not an exercise you do sometimes when you think about it. You incorporate it into everything you do with Tempy - whether it is working on your canter pirouette, bringing the cows in, opening a gate or loading onto a float - keeping your horse straight becomes a way of life.
Get back to me and let me know how you get on.
Hi Ross,
If you could part with some of your pearls of wisdom I'd really appreciate some advice please. I hope I can explain the situation clearly enough for you to make sense of it.
In my recent lessons we have been riding in large circles, working to get Tempest more balanced and travelling correctly because she always want to bend her neck to the right a bit. We have also started to work on canter transitions, which tend to include a few pigroots, and I have assumed it is Tempy's lack of forward that is at the root of the problem.
After a few rides the canter transitions were not improving so I decided to try a few rides in the paddock to see if I could improve her willingness to go forward and get her feeling happier about it. She was more forward, but I am quite sure that the change was just her reaction to the new scenery and not anything I did. We did have our first little gallop and there was no issue with pigrooting, but I should know by now that geographical changes don't fix anything long term.
Anyway, at our next lesson we experimented a little and came to the conclusion that perhaps the issue is not so much a lack of forward, but a lack of balance and the fact that Tempy finds it difficult to maintain a correct bend. The pigrooting is therefore an expression of her unhappiness. Regardless of which direction we are riding, the pigroot is always preceded by her dropping her rear to the left and poking her nose to the right a bit.
A few rides on my own weren't improving things so I tried using the entire arena instead of working in circles. I have been asking for the canter in a corner but then riding a straight line and a long sweeping curve around. The pigrooting has improved, but it is still there. I need to keep mindful of how Tempy is bent and block her from dropping the hindquarters to the left and poking her nose to the right. If I get it right the canter can be quite forward and without the pigrooting.
My idea is to make the canter transition as easy as possible for Tempy, in the hope that her attitude will improve (be more willing to go) if she isn't struggling so much with her balance in a constant bend on a circle. Do you think this is the right approach? If not, do you have any other suggestions?
Thanks for your time.
Ngaire
You say you experimented a little and concluded it was a balance issue and not a forward issue, but you don't say how you determined this. I'd like you to try some things to help determine the cause of the issue.
1. Does Tempy pigroot in the canter transition at liberty in the round yard?
2. Does she pigroot in the round yard without a rider or with a rider (no reins) or both?
3. Does she pigroot with a rider (no reins) if a person on the ground sends her into the canter?
4. Does she pigroot the round yard if the rider (no reins) sends her into the canter?
5. If you ride her in an arena and leave the reins alone and gradually ask for the trot to get bigger and bigger and bigger until she falls into the canter, does she pigroot? Try your best to stay off her mouth.
6. Does she pigroot if somebody else rides her?
If you can get back to me with the answers to those questions, I would be in a better position to make some suggestions. It will help me determine if the problem lies in her crookedness, her lack of forward or her rider.
But having said that, she clearly has a crookedness issue - whether or not it interferes with her canter transitions. I think I worked on that for a bit when I rode her in October at the clinic. In all likelihood you'll find she is crooked in her turns at the walk and trot, let alone the canter transition. That's the place to start. Be picky about riding your line, even if your line goes around corners. If she deviates from the line, put her back on the line as soon as possible. In addition, crookedness usually stems from a resistance through some part of the body. The more you can bend Tempy with minimum resistance the straighter she will become.
In brief, to address the counter bending problem in the turns you need to work on (i) making her more "bendable" and (ii) keeping her thought on the line you are riding. And you must be vigilant about it. It's not an exercise you do sometimes when you think about it. You incorporate it into everything you do with Tempy - whether it is working on your canter pirouette, bringing the cows in, opening a gate or loading onto a float - keeping your horse straight becomes a way of life.
Get back to me and let me know how you get on.
5 January, 2012
Thanks for the very positive feedback for the new design of the web site. There have been a couple of hiccups that required me to tweak a few things, but I think it is all working fine now. If anybody discovers any problems, please let me know.
Harry Whitney in Wagga Wagga
There have been some late cancellations in Harry’s clinic in Wagga Wagga, NSW.
The clinic runs from January 29 – 31 and will be held at Charles Sturt University. If anybody is interested in participating or would like to know more, please contact Julie Cowell (02) 6942-7889 or 0429 158 312 or conundrumhorse@hotmail.com
Harry Whitney in Wagga Wagga
There have been some late cancellations in Harry’s clinic in Wagga Wagga, NSW.
The clinic runs from January 29 – 31 and will be held at Charles Sturt University. If anybody is interested in participating or would like to know more, please contact Julie Cowell (02) 6942-7889 or 0429 158 312 or conundrumhorse@hotmail.com
Filed in: behaviour
The Spirit of a Horse
"For lack of a better word, I've taken to calling this the horse's spirit. The older I get, the more I have come to believe that this aspect of the horse is the most important and the most over looked." Tom Dorrance from “True Unity”
This is a quote from Tom Dorrance’s book that is often repeated by many folks. A lot of people have had a go at what Tom might have meant by the spirit of a horse and what Tom was trying to tell us in his book. I would never presume to try to analyze Tom’s intent by this statement. I have no idea what “the horse’s spirit” meant to him. I have no idea of what it meant to the many who have repeated it or tried to give their interpretation of Tom’s word. I guess it doesn’t really matter what Tom was trying to tell people, because everybody will put their own interpretation on it and people will see “the horse’s spirit” expressed in different ways.
Maybe I am foolish to jump into the fray with this topic and probably there will be many who disagree with me and may even think a lot less of me as a horse person for my views. But here goes anyway.
I don’t really believe there is such a thing as a horse’s spirit.
The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines spirit as “intelligent or immaterial part of man, soul” and Webster defines it as “life force of man, soul.”
So it seems the spirit refers to a human characteristic and not a non-human one. But forgetting all that and accepting that it can be applied to any living species, spirit refers to something non-organic. By that I mean that the horse’s spirit refers to something that is not biologically based.
I am not a spiritual person. I don’t believe in any religion or after-life or god. I also don’t believe in things that are not caused or created by the physical universe.
So when somebody refers to the horse’s spirit I think of something that is based on chemical reactions and interactions of electron and protons etc. I think of something that is innately part of the physical being of the whole horse.
When people ride a horse that appears to have its spirit destroyed, I see a horse that is shutdown due to bad experiences. I don’t see a horse whose ethereal soul has been destroyed.
The slogan I have adopted for many years and use on this web site and as part of my business is “keeping the horse inside the horse.” To me, that means the essence of a horse’s personality should be preserved during training and not destroyed by our attempts to create submission and obedience. A horse’s personality is created by genetics and experiences. But it can be altered. I believe horses can experience joy and I believe they can experience depression. And like people, these experiences derive from the chemical environment of the central nervous system. We know this because drugs that alter the chemical environment can elicit personality changes.
I have seen quiet and settled horses turn into chronically stressed horses in matter of weeks because of new experiences. I have also seen the opposite. But the essence of the horse that is created by its genetic predisposition remains unchanged. It may be hidden under layers of other traits caused by new experiences, but it remains there waiting.
I believe the spirit of a horse as a life force or something metaphysical is a myth. I believe what is sometimes referred to, as the horse’s spirit is no more than the personality of a horse that stems from his central nervous system. I don’t believe there is anything more beyond what you see with a horse that you need to discover. Horses are amazing enough as they are to deserve our awe and I don’t think we need to go looking for spiritual explanations for our relationship with them.
As I said earlier, I don’t know what Tom Dorrance meant by the “horse’s spirit”, but perhaps he did really mean the horse’s personality that is the essence of a horse. Well, that’s what it means to me.
But in the end, whether or not horses have a spiritual side is irrelevant because the approach to getting along well with horses remains the same. The preservation of a horse’s personality or his spirit still becomes the goal of all good horsemanship. In a practical sense it doesn’t change a thing in how you approach the training whether you believe he has a spirit or not.
"For lack of a better word, I've taken to calling this the horse's spirit. The older I get, the more I have come to believe that this aspect of the horse is the most important and the most over looked." Tom Dorrance from “True Unity”
This is a quote from Tom Dorrance’s book that is often repeated by many folks. A lot of people have had a go at what Tom might have meant by the spirit of a horse and what Tom was trying to tell us in his book. I would never presume to try to analyze Tom’s intent by this statement. I have no idea what “the horse’s spirit” meant to him. I have no idea of what it meant to the many who have repeated it or tried to give their interpretation of Tom’s word. I guess it doesn’t really matter what Tom was trying to tell people, because everybody will put their own interpretation on it and people will see “the horse’s spirit” expressed in different ways.
Maybe I am foolish to jump into the fray with this topic and probably there will be many who disagree with me and may even think a lot less of me as a horse person for my views. But here goes anyway.
I don’t really believe there is such a thing as a horse’s spirit.
The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines spirit as “intelligent or immaterial part of man, soul” and Webster defines it as “life force of man, soul.”
So it seems the spirit refers to a human characteristic and not a non-human one. But forgetting all that and accepting that it can be applied to any living species, spirit refers to something non-organic. By that I mean that the horse’s spirit refers to something that is not biologically based.
I am not a spiritual person. I don’t believe in any religion or after-life or god. I also don’t believe in things that are not caused or created by the physical universe.
So when somebody refers to the horse’s spirit I think of something that is based on chemical reactions and interactions of electron and protons etc. I think of something that is innately part of the physical being of the whole horse.
When people ride a horse that appears to have its spirit destroyed, I see a horse that is shutdown due to bad experiences. I don’t see a horse whose ethereal soul has been destroyed.
The slogan I have adopted for many years and use on this web site and as part of my business is “keeping the horse inside the horse.” To me, that means the essence of a horse’s personality should be preserved during training and not destroyed by our attempts to create submission and obedience. A horse’s personality is created by genetics and experiences. But it can be altered. I believe horses can experience joy and I believe they can experience depression. And like people, these experiences derive from the chemical environment of the central nervous system. We know this because drugs that alter the chemical environment can elicit personality changes.
I have seen quiet and settled horses turn into chronically stressed horses in matter of weeks because of new experiences. I have also seen the opposite. But the essence of the horse that is created by its genetic predisposition remains unchanged. It may be hidden under layers of other traits caused by new experiences, but it remains there waiting.
I believe the spirit of a horse as a life force or something metaphysical is a myth. I believe what is sometimes referred to, as the horse’s spirit is no more than the personality of a horse that stems from his central nervous system. I don’t believe there is anything more beyond what you see with a horse that you need to discover. Horses are amazing enough as they are to deserve our awe and I don’t think we need to go looking for spiritual explanations for our relationship with them.
As I said earlier, I don’t know what Tom Dorrance meant by the “horse’s spirit”, but perhaps he did really mean the horse’s personality that is the essence of a horse. Well, that’s what it means to me.
But in the end, whether or not horses have a spiritual side is irrelevant because the approach to getting along well with horses remains the same. The preservation of a horse’s personality or his spirit still becomes the goal of all good horsemanship. In a practical sense it doesn’t change a thing in how you approach the training whether you believe he has a spirit or not.
Filed in: training
Using A Whip
Hello Ross
Wishing yourself and Michele a very happy New Year.
Love the new website, am very excited about the video lessons, will have to get Charlotte to sharpen up on her video skills.
As it was 41 degrees yesterday we decided to go into the big damn at the agistment park in the evening. Nicky had only ever ventured into the back damn which is smaller and not as murky. She was very worried about getting in especially as one of the ponies was very excited to jump in and was swimming around like crazy. It was great to watch her launching in from the bank like a dog.
I got Nicky to go in but she was very rushy and would go out diagonally to get out. I would then proceed to ask her to go back in, which would take some time and she was rushy again. As the bank is very close to the fence line and there were horse with their riders trying to be coaxed in it was very hard to maneuver Nicky so she decided that her backing up trick was going to get her out of going in. This is the first time that I decided to try a crop. I have never used one on her before and was quite reluctant to try but if Nicky plants her feet normally I ask her to do a forehand yield and then a few other things and then we turn to go forward again however there was no room for this and her backing up was dangerous to the other horses so I need her to go forward. I used it only when I felt her shift her weight to go backwards and only after I asked her to go forward off my leg, when she wouldn't she would get a firm and quick tap. This would make her decide not to go back and to proceed into the water. This exercise happened afew times and then as Nicky started to go into the damn willingly and be happy to just stand or ponder around I asked her to get out and got rid of the whip. I then took her in one more time with no whip and no rush and stopped there.
I'm not keen on whips and if I had been alone would have pursued the situation differently but I have found that this backing up thing has become a habit of hers and the progress was a lot quicker with the whip. Could I have done things differently and is there another way of stopping her backup to avoid situations that she is frightened of?
Irena
Thanks for the good wishes for the New Year. I hope you can bribe Charlotte into becoming a videographer - it might open a career for her.
You ask an impossible question to answer regarding could you have done anything differently. I don't know, I wasn't there. You can always do things differently - there is always other alternatives. But the question is whether you'd have gotten a better result or not if you had tried something else and you can only know that if you could go back in time and re-do the experiment.
It seems to me that you question how you approached the issue purely because you feel guilty about using the whip. It doesn't seem that you are questioning the result you got. That appears to be worked out fine.
If Nicky was able to overcome her issue and you did no damage to your relationship, then I would say there was benefit for Nicky in using the whip. The whip is not the issue - no more than a bit or shoeing or dressage are the issue. These things can cause harm to a horse, but they can also benefit the horse. A couple of years ago a lady sent me a horse with a chronic rearing problem. I tried several things over about a week, but in the end I resorted to using a whip to insist on forwardness. Believe me, I really made sure the horse knew my intent was to go forward off my leg and nothing else was going to happen. I didn't hit him hard, but I tapped him with a flurry of activity that did not stop until he tried going forward. Within a couple of rides it was over and he never propped and reared again on me. You don't need to cause pain with a whip to cause him to move. You just need to give him a reason that he better try something else. And I didn't lose any sleep over grabbing for the whip. We got along fine after that. The whip just helped give clarity to a situation that I was finding difficult to clear up using other approaches. If could have been anything else that might have done the same thing such as a flag or a water pistol or a dog's squeaky toy; and it would have been okay.
You have to give Nicky clarity and if you can do that without damaging your relationship, using a whip is as good as anything else.
Hello Ross
Wishing yourself and Michele a very happy New Year.
Love the new website, am very excited about the video lessons, will have to get Charlotte to sharpen up on her video skills.
As it was 41 degrees yesterday we decided to go into the big damn at the agistment park in the evening. Nicky had only ever ventured into the back damn which is smaller and not as murky. She was very worried about getting in especially as one of the ponies was very excited to jump in and was swimming around like crazy. It was great to watch her launching in from the bank like a dog.
I got Nicky to go in but she was very rushy and would go out diagonally to get out. I would then proceed to ask her to go back in, which would take some time and she was rushy again. As the bank is very close to the fence line and there were horse with their riders trying to be coaxed in it was very hard to maneuver Nicky so she decided that her backing up trick was going to get her out of going in. This is the first time that I decided to try a crop. I have never used one on her before and was quite reluctant to try but if Nicky plants her feet normally I ask her to do a forehand yield and then a few other things and then we turn to go forward again however there was no room for this and her backing up was dangerous to the other horses so I need her to go forward. I used it only when I felt her shift her weight to go backwards and only after I asked her to go forward off my leg, when she wouldn't she would get a firm and quick tap. This would make her decide not to go back and to proceed into the water. This exercise happened afew times and then as Nicky started to go into the damn willingly and be happy to just stand or ponder around I asked her to get out and got rid of the whip. I then took her in one more time with no whip and no rush and stopped there.
I'm not keen on whips and if I had been alone would have pursued the situation differently but I have found that this backing up thing has become a habit of hers and the progress was a lot quicker with the whip. Could I have done things differently and is there another way of stopping her backup to avoid situations that she is frightened of?
Irena
Thanks for the good wishes for the New Year. I hope you can bribe Charlotte into becoming a videographer - it might open a career for her.
You ask an impossible question to answer regarding could you have done anything differently. I don't know, I wasn't there. You can always do things differently - there is always other alternatives. But the question is whether you'd have gotten a better result or not if you had tried something else and you can only know that if you could go back in time and re-do the experiment.
It seems to me that you question how you approached the issue purely because you feel guilty about using the whip. It doesn't seem that you are questioning the result you got. That appears to be worked out fine.
If Nicky was able to overcome her issue and you did no damage to your relationship, then I would say there was benefit for Nicky in using the whip. The whip is not the issue - no more than a bit or shoeing or dressage are the issue. These things can cause harm to a horse, but they can also benefit the horse. A couple of years ago a lady sent me a horse with a chronic rearing problem. I tried several things over about a week, but in the end I resorted to using a whip to insist on forwardness. Believe me, I really made sure the horse knew my intent was to go forward off my leg and nothing else was going to happen. I didn't hit him hard, but I tapped him with a flurry of activity that did not stop until he tried going forward. Within a couple of rides it was over and he never propped and reared again on me. You don't need to cause pain with a whip to cause him to move. You just need to give him a reason that he better try something else. And I didn't lose any sleep over grabbing for the whip. We got along fine after that. The whip just helped give clarity to a situation that I was finding difficult to clear up using other approaches. If could have been anything else that might have done the same thing such as a flag or a water pistol or a dog's squeaky toy; and it would have been okay.
You have to give Nicky clarity and if you can do that without damaging your relationship, using a whip is as good as anything else.
Filed in: training
Outback Horse Breaker
I talked above about keeping the horse inside the horse. I mentioned that killing the spirit of a horse is the same as killing the personality of the horse in my view. Below is a short video of a bloke doing just that. In an attempt to subdue the horse he is flooding it with so much stress that the horse shut downs and allow the trainer to sit on his back. If the trainer approaches working with the horse in a similar way time and time again, eventually the horse will be psychologically damaged for the long term.
I talked above about keeping the horse inside the horse. I mentioned that killing the spirit of a horse is the same as killing the personality of the horse in my view. Below is a short video of a bloke doing just that. In an attempt to subdue the horse he is flooding it with so much stress that the horse shut downs and allow the trainer to sit on his back. If the trainer approaches working with the horse in a similar way time and time again, eventually the horse will be psychologically damaged for the long term.
The fellow uses a cross between old style horsemanship and the Kel Jeffrey method. And he approaches both methods with little or no feel. It’s horrible. He should call his business Horrible Horsemanship. Anybody who sits on a horse for the first time with it tied to a post is no horseman in my opinion.
1 January, 2012
Filed in: Misc
Happy New Year
Michele and I wish everybody prosperity and happiness in the coming year and hope for better things for you and your horses.
Welcome to the New Look Web Site
I hope you like the new look of the web site. There are several changes to the web site, but if you are familiar with navigating around the old site you’ll have no trouble with the new one.
The new web site reflects the changes to the business in that after too many years starting and re-educating horses, I am moving away from training horses for the public and placing more emphasis on teaching horsemanship and holding clinics. Futhermore, Michele is also taking a less active role in the business to pursue other interests.
What’s Familiar?
You’ll find favourites like the Story page and Horse Talk page have not changed. Also you’ll still be able to find the next clinic on the Schedule page.
Old blogs are still available in the archive section by clicking on the month in the calendar in the side bar. They will appear in the old format because it was too much work to convert 2 years of posts over to the new style.
What’s New?
Apart from the design most of the web site is the same. I’ve simplified the structure significantly and removed some obsolete parts.
All the images on the blog can be enlarged by clicking on them. They will appear in a lightbox effect that can be closed by clicking the close symbol.
The biggest addition is the introduction of a new service I am calling Video Lessons. You can find out more about them by going to the Video Lesson page.
When Michele and I moved interstate a few months ago many of our Victorian clients expressed disappointment at not having access to our help. Now with the Video Lessons folks can record a session or part of a session with their horse, send it to me or post it on a video site like YouTube or Vimeo. They will receive prompt advice and suggestions for improving their work. It can be a one off thing to help overcome an acute problem or you can make regular videos to further your education in good horsemanship
The Video Lessons can be completely private or can be shared with others on this web site for the benefit of all – it’s up to you. There are several options for receiving your assessment, including e-mail or in real-time using Skype.
This service is just as easily available whether you are in Australia or overseas. All you need is a video camera and somebody to film you.
I am really pleased to be able to offer the Video Lessons and I hope it is a service that proves both popular and valuable to people. If you have any questions, please write and ask.
Tom Moates On Facebook
For those that are fans of Tom’s books he has a new Facebook page where you keep up with his latest writings.
For those that don’t know Tom, you should check out his books at his web site www.tommoates.com.
Tom is a first class writer of all things horse. He has written articles for many of the top horse magazines in including Western Horseman, Eques, Electic Horseman and in Australia he has been published in Hoof Beats.
Tom has spent a lot of time examining the approaches of most of America’s top horsemen and women. But like many of you, Tom has learned to appreciate the special talents of Harry Whitney that puts Harry above the fray. Tom has written three books about his experiences learning from Harry and I thoroughly recommend them as material for anybody interested in good horsemanship.
So check out Tom’s web site and Facebook page. When Tom writes something it is well worth your time reading it.
Michele and I wish everybody prosperity and happiness in the coming year and hope for better things for you and your horses.
Welcome to the New Look Web Site
I hope you like the new look of the web site. There are several changes to the web site, but if you are familiar with navigating around the old site you’ll have no trouble with the new one.
The new web site reflects the changes to the business in that after too many years starting and re-educating horses, I am moving away from training horses for the public and placing more emphasis on teaching horsemanship and holding clinics. Futhermore, Michele is also taking a less active role in the business to pursue other interests.
What’s Familiar?
You’ll find favourites like the Story page and Horse Talk page have not changed. Also you’ll still be able to find the next clinic on the Schedule page.
Old blogs are still available in the archive section by clicking on the month in the calendar in the side bar. They will appear in the old format because it was too much work to convert 2 years of posts over to the new style.
What’s New?
Apart from the design most of the web site is the same. I’ve simplified the structure significantly and removed some obsolete parts.
All the images on the blog can be enlarged by clicking on them. They will appear in a lightbox effect that can be closed by clicking the close symbol.
The biggest addition is the introduction of a new service I am calling Video Lessons. You can find out more about them by going to the Video Lesson page.
When Michele and I moved interstate a few months ago many of our Victorian clients expressed disappointment at not having access to our help. Now with the Video Lessons folks can record a session or part of a session with their horse, send it to me or post it on a video site like YouTube or Vimeo. They will receive prompt advice and suggestions for improving their work. It can be a one off thing to help overcome an acute problem or you can make regular videos to further your education in good horsemanship
The Video Lessons can be completely private or can be shared with others on this web site for the benefit of all – it’s up to you. There are several options for receiving your assessment, including e-mail or in real-time using Skype.
This service is just as easily available whether you are in Australia or overseas. All you need is a video camera and somebody to film you.
I am really pleased to be able to offer the Video Lessons and I hope it is a service that proves both popular and valuable to people. If you have any questions, please write and ask.
Tom Moates On Facebook
For those that are fans of Tom’s books he has a new Facebook page where you keep up with his latest writings.
For those that don’t know Tom, you should check out his books at his web site www.tommoates.com.
Tom is a first class writer of all things horse. He has written articles for many of the top horse magazines in including Western Horseman, Eques, Electic Horseman and in Australia he has been published in Hoof Beats.
Tom has spent a lot of time examining the approaches of most of America’s top horsemen and women. But like many of you, Tom has learned to appreciate the special talents of Harry Whitney that puts Harry above the fray. Tom has written three books about his experiences learning from Harry and I thoroughly recommend them as material for anybody interested in good horsemanship.
So check out Tom’s web site and Facebook page. When Tom writes something it is well worth your time reading it.
Filed in: training
What It Takes To Compete At The Elite Level
At lunch time today I watch some showjumping and eventing on TV. With the Olympics looming next year many hopeful competitors were on show to capture the attention of the selectors.
Overall, I saw some pretty dismal displays of training. Most of the horses could not ride a straight line to save themselves. Nearly every horse negotiated every corner counter bent and dropping his or her shoulder to the inside. Perhaps this would not matter except on many occasions there was a jumping facing the horse just after the corners. How can a horse be balanced in front of a jump if he is crooked in the approach?
I also saw lots of jerking and pulling on the reins to control the horse’s forward. There was no display of subtle and quiet riding. Every horse pulled and pulled and every rider was working hard to contain his or her horse.
But I particularly noticed that about 4 out of 5 competitors had at their disposal a ton of gadgets. There were standing martingales, running martingales, tight nosebands, curb bits, whips, spurs, double reins etc. Some had martingales to contain their forward and at the same time had spurs or whips to make the horse more forward.
These riders and horses are at the elite level of competition. They are vying for a place at one of the world’s most prestigious events. They hold a position of accomplishment that many of us riders dream about and few achieve. Yet they struggle to have enough of their horse’s attention to gain control. Most of the riders had to resort to devices designed to give more power to the rider and more pain to the horse.
How is it that in many disciplines of competition the higher the degree of training of a horse the more gadgets needed to control the horse? I think the answer is simple.
Riders do not train horses to have focus. Gadgets are designed to inflict enough discomfort on a horse that he has to listen to the rider. The bigger the stress or adrenaline rush a horse experiences, the less he listens to the rider and the more gadgets needed to substitute for a lack of focus. So gadgets replace training.
But to me, logic would suggest that training should improve focus and softness. The higher the training, the better the focus. You would think that at the highest level of a discipline, the focus and softness would be magical and inspirational. It makes sense to me.
I use to compete. I know that I would never allow my horse to come around a corner to a jump counter bent and I would never allow a horse to pull on the reins in front of a jump. It was not part of the training to allow those things. I competed on several horses, but one in particular was pretty talented and we went a long way. His speciality was six bar. It’s a discipline where horses are renowned for reefing the reins. But Luke was trained that it was not necessary to pull on the reins. By the time we were competing in the biggest competitions there was no martingale, tight noseband, spurs or whip. He was ridden in a plain snaffle and a lot of hope. So I know it is possible to achieve success and still have the horse give you control rather than using devices to take control. I don’t understand why it is not on the agenda of every competitor.
At lunch time today I watch some showjumping and eventing on TV. With the Olympics looming next year many hopeful competitors were on show to capture the attention of the selectors.
Overall, I saw some pretty dismal displays of training. Most of the horses could not ride a straight line to save themselves. Nearly every horse negotiated every corner counter bent and dropping his or her shoulder to the inside. Perhaps this would not matter except on many occasions there was a jumping facing the horse just after the corners. How can a horse be balanced in front of a jump if he is crooked in the approach?
I also saw lots of jerking and pulling on the reins to control the horse’s forward. There was no display of subtle and quiet riding. Every horse pulled and pulled and every rider was working hard to contain his or her horse.
But I particularly noticed that about 4 out of 5 competitors had at their disposal a ton of gadgets. There were standing martingales, running martingales, tight nosebands, curb bits, whips, spurs, double reins etc. Some had martingales to contain their forward and at the same time had spurs or whips to make the horse more forward.
These riders and horses are at the elite level of competition. They are vying for a place at one of the world’s most prestigious events. They hold a position of accomplishment that many of us riders dream about and few achieve. Yet they struggle to have enough of their horse’s attention to gain control. Most of the riders had to resort to devices designed to give more power to the rider and more pain to the horse.
How is it that in many disciplines of competition the higher the degree of training of a horse the more gadgets needed to control the horse? I think the answer is simple.
Riders do not train horses to have focus. Gadgets are designed to inflict enough discomfort on a horse that he has to listen to the rider. The bigger the stress or adrenaline rush a horse experiences, the less he listens to the rider and the more gadgets needed to substitute for a lack of focus. So gadgets replace training.
But to me, logic would suggest that training should improve focus and softness. The higher the training, the better the focus. You would think that at the highest level of a discipline, the focus and softness would be magical and inspirational. It makes sense to me.
I use to compete. I know that I would never allow my horse to come around a corner to a jump counter bent and I would never allow a horse to pull on the reins in front of a jump. It was not part of the training to allow those things. I competed on several horses, but one in particular was pretty talented and we went a long way. His speciality was six bar. It’s a discipline where horses are renowned for reefing the reins. But Luke was trained that it was not necessary to pull on the reins. By the time we were competing in the biggest competitions there was no martingale, tight noseband, spurs or whip. He was ridden in a plain snaffle and a lot of hope. So I know it is possible to achieve success and still have the horse give you control rather than using devices to take control. I don’t understand why it is not on the agenda of every competitor.
Filed in: behaviour
A Colt On His Own
Hi Ross,
Firstly the video of the colt and the ball is priceless. How sad it is that once this little fellow was weaned that his whole world changed to 'solitary confinement' all because he 'has potential'!
I know of a gelding that was in a similar situation. His elderly owner had bred this young TB colt (whose sire had fabulous SJ lines) in the hope of one day his grand daughter would take him to high (literally) places.
Once weaned he was put in a large yard where, unfortunately, the colt stayed until he was 3 yo. (The grand daughter was still too young and wasn't really interested) The elderly owner fell while feeding him one day, which started off a snowball of health issues for the owner. The horse was fed every day but his other needs were far from being met. His feet were trimmed once in 3 years. He started weaving and became very anti-social towards humans. Other than when he was a foal he never had the opportunity to be with, or touch, another horse. By the time he was a 3yo the owner was finding it increasingly difficult to care for him. The owner wanted him gelded so that he would be quieter to handle but the vet wanted him handled so that he would be quieter to geld!
I found out about him by accident (the owner was a neighbour but not one that I had a lot to do with and the horse was out of view to passers-by on the property). I went and had a look at him but handling him was way out of my league. Fortunately for the colt I happened to have a friend visiting from interstate that weekend that I knew would be able to help the horse.
So, to cut a long story short, the colt was handled enough to get him to lead to my place, he was put in another yard while he settled and was handled a bit more then the following day he was lightly tranquilized and loaded on a horse transport to my friends place, 900 kms away.
Fast forward 6 or 7 years and my friend now has a horse that is retired! The colt was gelded once at his new home but never had any idea about how to interact with the other horses. He was initially put in with one other older horse for company but still ended up being injured because he just had no socialisation skills.
My friend started the gelding at a later date but the anxiety the horse showed once away from the other horses made it almost impossible to take him out to club days let alone a competition. The old behaviours came back- like weaving when he was tied up- so my friend decided that the only fair thing for the horse was to retire him to the 'oldies' paddock for the rest of his days.
So the moral of the story is? It's a bit like buying an item of clothing that you like so much that you keep it wrapped up and put away for 'a special occasion'. That special day doesn't happen and before you know it that favourite item is old fashioned, the moths have found it, it has never been worn, and is now useless. The colt will be the same. Put away in mothballs, he has potential but for some reason or other it 'just doesn't happen' and he ends up emotionally scarred for life (his body will be fine but you've blown his mind in the meantime). Only this time it's not an old cardigan or old pair of shoes. It's a horse that is craving his own kind. It's a very sad situation and unfortunately he's not the only one.
That's a good story and I think it gets repeated around the world more often than we would like to think. But sometimes it turns out okay.
A few years ago I was called out to look at a 15 year old stallion for breaking in. The horse had been bred on the property and not handled since it was weaned. It had never had a halter on or had it's feet done and had lived alone almost all it's life When they wanted to move it another paddock they would chase it down a laneway and through gates. It was afraid of people and in the yard showed considerable fear based aggression. I was able to keep it in a yard on the property while I handled it for 2 or 3 days so I could load it onto a float to take it my place. I got it gelded and broken in. I worked a lot from my old horse and eventually taught it to be polite around other horses when it was ridden. But I never got it okay in a herd. It turned out to be a super nice horse and what a magical horse it could have been if it had the right start in life. It's new home was with a very talented teenage girl. She mainly used it for trail riding and pony club competitions. But it never could be put in a paddock with other horses.
I think the lack of handling is one thing and often that can turn out okay with time and patience. But the isolation is a different issue that can cause lifetime problems and damage that can never be completely unraveled. I think the isolation messes with the basic essence of what it is to be a horse and causes an aberration in the behaviour that many horses have to live with forever.
Hi Ross,
Firstly the video of the colt and the ball is priceless. How sad it is that once this little fellow was weaned that his whole world changed to 'solitary confinement' all because he 'has potential'!
I know of a gelding that was in a similar situation. His elderly owner had bred this young TB colt (whose sire had fabulous SJ lines) in the hope of one day his grand daughter would take him to high (literally) places.
Once weaned he was put in a large yard where, unfortunately, the colt stayed until he was 3 yo. (The grand daughter was still too young and wasn't really interested) The elderly owner fell while feeding him one day, which started off a snowball of health issues for the owner. The horse was fed every day but his other needs were far from being met. His feet were trimmed once in 3 years. He started weaving and became very anti-social towards humans. Other than when he was a foal he never had the opportunity to be with, or touch, another horse. By the time he was a 3yo the owner was finding it increasingly difficult to care for him. The owner wanted him gelded so that he would be quieter to handle but the vet wanted him handled so that he would be quieter to geld!
I found out about him by accident (the owner was a neighbour but not one that I had a lot to do with and the horse was out of view to passers-by on the property). I went and had a look at him but handling him was way out of my league. Fortunately for the colt I happened to have a friend visiting from interstate that weekend that I knew would be able to help the horse.
So, to cut a long story short, the colt was handled enough to get him to lead to my place, he was put in another yard while he settled and was handled a bit more then the following day he was lightly tranquilized and loaded on a horse transport to my friends place, 900 kms away.
Fast forward 6 or 7 years and my friend now has a horse that is retired! The colt was gelded once at his new home but never had any idea about how to interact with the other horses. He was initially put in with one other older horse for company but still ended up being injured because he just had no socialisation skills.
My friend started the gelding at a later date but the anxiety the horse showed once away from the other horses made it almost impossible to take him out to club days let alone a competition. The old behaviours came back- like weaving when he was tied up- so my friend decided that the only fair thing for the horse was to retire him to the 'oldies' paddock for the rest of his days.
So the moral of the story is? It's a bit like buying an item of clothing that you like so much that you keep it wrapped up and put away for 'a special occasion'. That special day doesn't happen and before you know it that favourite item is old fashioned, the moths have found it, it has never been worn, and is now useless. The colt will be the same. Put away in mothballs, he has potential but for some reason or other it 'just doesn't happen' and he ends up emotionally scarred for life (his body will be fine but you've blown his mind in the meantime). Only this time it's not an old cardigan or old pair of shoes. It's a horse that is craving his own kind. It's a very sad situation and unfortunately he's not the only one.
That's a good story and I think it gets repeated around the world more often than we would like to think. But sometimes it turns out okay.
A few years ago I was called out to look at a 15 year old stallion for breaking in. The horse had been bred on the property and not handled since it was weaned. It had never had a halter on or had it's feet done and had lived alone almost all it's life When they wanted to move it another paddock they would chase it down a laneway and through gates. It was afraid of people and in the yard showed considerable fear based aggression. I was able to keep it in a yard on the property while I handled it for 2 or 3 days so I could load it onto a float to take it my place. I got it gelded and broken in. I worked a lot from my old horse and eventually taught it to be polite around other horses when it was ridden. But I never got it okay in a herd. It turned out to be a super nice horse and what a magical horse it could have been if it had the right start in life. It's new home was with a very talented teenage girl. She mainly used it for trail riding and pony club competitions. But it never could be put in a paddock with other horses.
I think the lack of handling is one thing and often that can turn out okay with time and patience. But the isolation is a different issue that can cause lifetime problems and damage that can never be completely unraveled. I think the isolation messes with the basic essence of what it is to be a horse and causes an aberration in the behaviour that many horses have to live with forever.
Filed in: training
Bending a Horse and HQ Yields
Dear Ross,
I finally got my bridle, so I can start the exercises you suggested below. A lady I know also had a German silver double jointed loose ring snaffle that she gave me to use, it is much finer than the chunky ones I saw in the shop. The chunky ones are fairly heavy and I can’t imagine they would be very pleasant for a horse. I tried the bridle on but I think the full sized bit isn’t wide enough and sides of his mouth are too close to the loose rings and I am worried about pinching. I’ll get some advice from the bit bank.
Just need to clarify something with you about the bending exercise. You said any yielding should come from giving to the rein or lead rope. Sorry to be a bit retarded but is the aim to just have horse bend neck around and hold without moving his feet. I have done some bending exercises with horse before. If he is focussed on me he will readily turn on very little pressure, hold in position himself until I release him. If he’s not with me properly, he will initially turn then pull away, so I ask him to bend again and release when he stays. I have never had to place much pressure on him to bend. The photos are very helpful. Could you just slip yourself into an express post bag and come here! Thought I’d try!
I tried the bridle on and did a bending exercise and his first response when I gave gentle pressure to bend was to yield his hind quarters in a circle around him without any driving from me. I wasn’t sure if he should be just standing still, so I kept the bend and walked with him till he stopped and I released immediately. To back up, I gently applied pressure on both reins but his response was to overbend rather than give to pressure and step back. He did paw so that tells me he wasn’t sure about what I wanted. So while I applied pressure on the reins I tapped with my finger on his body and as soon as he took a step back, I released. I walked him a few steps forward and asked for a stop and he seemed okay on little pressure. I kept the session very brief.
Regards
Maryanne
The bending of the horse and whether his feet move or not is a point that is argued by trainers. I know my view contradicts that of many trainers.
When disengaging the hq the horse should move his hind end from just the bend. There should be no driving of his hind end and he should not be standing still when you ask him to bend around and look in the direction you want.
The reason for this is because in the early stages of training I want a strong connection between the reins and the hind feet. I don't want my horse to learn that he can look in one direction, but his feet can move in another direction. If I pick up the left rein and ask him to think and yield to the left, I want his hq yielding to the right so he is ready for a left turn. This is the very start of teaching a horse to have a direct connection between what the reins are asking and what the feet are doing.
It has been my experience that if you teach a horse to bend, but his feet stand quietly (or you drive his hq to disengage), you run the risk that he will at the very least bulge his shoulder out of the turn and at worse he may even steer straight ahead despite being bent in one direction or the other.
I see no point in asking a horse to bend his head around and keep his feet still. I have never had it explained to me why I wouldn't not want his hq to yield at the same time I ask for the bend.
Later on, when your horse is good with following the feel of the reins accurately, you can teach him to flex his neck without moving his feet. There is no problem in doing that if he already understands to follow the reins. But if he is learning how to follow the reins, I would not be asking him to stand still while bending around.
Dear Ross,
I finally got my bridle, so I can start the exercises you suggested below. A lady I know also had a German silver double jointed loose ring snaffle that she gave me to use, it is much finer than the chunky ones I saw in the shop. The chunky ones are fairly heavy and I can’t imagine they would be very pleasant for a horse. I tried the bridle on but I think the full sized bit isn’t wide enough and sides of his mouth are too close to the loose rings and I am worried about pinching. I’ll get some advice from the bit bank.
Just need to clarify something with you about the bending exercise. You said any yielding should come from giving to the rein or lead rope. Sorry to be a bit retarded but is the aim to just have horse bend neck around and hold without moving his feet. I have done some bending exercises with horse before. If he is focussed on me he will readily turn on very little pressure, hold in position himself until I release him. If he’s not with me properly, he will initially turn then pull away, so I ask him to bend again and release when he stays. I have never had to place much pressure on him to bend. The photos are very helpful. Could you just slip yourself into an express post bag and come here! Thought I’d try!
I tried the bridle on and did a bending exercise and his first response when I gave gentle pressure to bend was to yield his hind quarters in a circle around him without any driving from me. I wasn’t sure if he should be just standing still, so I kept the bend and walked with him till he stopped and I released immediately. To back up, I gently applied pressure on both reins but his response was to overbend rather than give to pressure and step back. He did paw so that tells me he wasn’t sure about what I wanted. So while I applied pressure on the reins I tapped with my finger on his body and as soon as he took a step back, I released. I walked him a few steps forward and asked for a stop and he seemed okay on little pressure. I kept the session very brief.
Regards
Maryanne
The bending of the horse and whether his feet move or not is a point that is argued by trainers. I know my view contradicts that of many trainers.
When disengaging the hq the horse should move his hind end from just the bend. There should be no driving of his hind end and he should not be standing still when you ask him to bend around and look in the direction you want.
The reason for this is because in the early stages of training I want a strong connection between the reins and the hind feet. I don't want my horse to learn that he can look in one direction, but his feet can move in another direction. If I pick up the left rein and ask him to think and yield to the left, I want his hq yielding to the right so he is ready for a left turn. This is the very start of teaching a horse to have a direct connection between what the reins are asking and what the feet are doing.
It has been my experience that if you teach a horse to bend, but his feet stand quietly (or you drive his hq to disengage), you run the risk that he will at the very least bulge his shoulder out of the turn and at worse he may even steer straight ahead despite being bent in one direction or the other.
I see no point in asking a horse to bend his head around and keep his feet still. I have never had it explained to me why I wouldn't not want his hq to yield at the same time I ask for the bend.
Later on, when your horse is good with following the feel of the reins accurately, you can teach him to flex his neck without moving his feet. There is no problem in doing that if he already understands to follow the reins. But if he is learning how to follow the reins, I would not be asking him to stand still while bending around.