training
Training and Re-Training – What’s The Difference?
I was recently reminded how people viewed horses with problems as being different from horses with no training. It is a really common perception that horses that have been trained yet have behaviours that we don’t like are very different from horses that just haven’t been taught in the first place.
All horses that have had any experience with people come with training. Even if they are foals that have not yet been haltered, they have experience of people that leaves an impression on them. If they have only seen people from the other side of the fence they have formed an opinion, which has taught them something about humans.
If what they have learned about us is not what we want them to learn, they already have baggage that will impact on our relationship and how our training progresses.
Michele and I use to work with a lot of foals. Every year we handled a stack of them. Teaching them to pick up their feet and hold them quietly for the farrier was always on the list of things to do. We always started with getting them comfortable with having their feet touched, then progressed to getting them to shift their weight to the opposite leg and then having them lift their foot off the ground when we cued them. Pretty soon they would quietly lift their leg and hold it up while we tapped their hoof and pretended to rasp around it. At each step we ensured the horse was soft and feeling okay before moving onto the next phase. The job was not to make the foal lift his leg for the farrier. The job was to stay focused and soft for every part of the process. If we did that, the foal was automatically ready for the farrier.
I recently worked with a horse that was prone to kicking the farrier. He was an 8-year-old Australian Stock Horse. The owner told me he was always bad about having his feet done ever since they bought him as a broken in 3 year old. Another trainer had used leg ropes to teach him to lift his leg and be shod. Even then he would fight a lot, but they could shoe him.
The horse had been this way for at least 5 years and had been shod a lot in his time. But he still argued about it and even kicked a person or two.
I started with getting him okay with me touching his leg and running my hand up and down it. At first he lifted his leg in the air, like it was a reflex. But I kept rubbing until he lowered it back down again. When he got really good at the rubbing part, I rubbed his inside tendon with my thumb to irritate him enough he would think about lifting his leg to move away from my thumb. The instant he shifted weight to the opposite leg, I stopped. I kept this up until he just lifted his leg. At first he would lifted it very abruptly and with tension, but I did not accept that and kept asking for the leg to come up and down again until there was some relaxation in the way he did it. I built on this approach until he could lift his legs and leave his hoof relaxed in my hand while I rubbed and tapped it and could put it softly back on the ground. If he became tense and tried to pull away or kick out, I persisted until a moment of relaxation came back.
In other words, I re-trained the horse in exactly the same way I would have trained a foal to lift its leg for the first time.
My experience has taught me that in the majority of cases, retraining is the same process as training for the first time. Why is this?
It’s because in both cases the problem is that the basics are either missing or have been corrupted in allowing bad feelings to creep into the horse’s thoughts. Whether a horse has learned bad habits or just doesn’t know how to respond, the problem lies in reprogramming the basics. It’s no different in my eyes.
I have said this before and I’ll say it again. In the past, people have asked me about buying a young, untrained horse to avoid buying something that already has problems. I tell them that if you don’t know enough to fix problems in a horse that already exist, then you don’t know enough to ensure you don’t put problems in a horse. The skills needed to train a green horse are the same skills needed to fix a spoiled horse.
If you have a horse that has a problem, you don’t need to go looking for a trainer with a bag of magic tricks for fixing problems. You just need to go back to the beginning and fill in the holes that were left by the early training.
I was recently reminded how people viewed horses with problems as being different from horses with no training. It is a really common perception that horses that have been trained yet have behaviours that we don’t like are very different from horses that just haven’t been taught in the first place.
All horses that have had any experience with people come with training. Even if they are foals that have not yet been haltered, they have experience of people that leaves an impression on them. If they have only seen people from the other side of the fence they have formed an opinion, which has taught them something about humans.
If what they have learned about us is not what we want them to learn, they already have baggage that will impact on our relationship and how our training progresses.
I recently worked with a horse that was prone to kicking the farrier. He was an 8-year-old Australian Stock Horse. The owner told me he was always bad about having his feet done ever since they bought him as a broken in 3 year old. Another trainer had used leg ropes to teach him to lift his leg and be shod. Even then he would fight a lot, but they could shoe him.
The horse had been this way for at least 5 years and had been shod a lot in his time. But he still argued about it and even kicked a person or two.
I started with getting him okay with me touching his leg and running my hand up and down it. At first he lifted his leg in the air, like it was a reflex. But I kept rubbing until he lowered it back down again. When he got really good at the rubbing part, I rubbed his inside tendon with my thumb to irritate him enough he would think about lifting his leg to move away from my thumb. The instant he shifted weight to the opposite leg, I stopped. I kept this up until he just lifted his leg. At first he would lifted it very abruptly and with tension, but I did not accept that and kept asking for the leg to come up and down again until there was some relaxation in the way he did it. I built on this approach until he could lift his legs and leave his hoof relaxed in my hand while I rubbed and tapped it and could put it softly back on the ground. If he became tense and tried to pull away or kick out, I persisted until a moment of relaxation came back.
In other words, I re-trained the horse in exactly the same way I would have trained a foal to lift its leg for the first time.
My experience has taught me that in the majority of cases, retraining is the same process as training for the first time. Why is this?
It’s because in both cases the problem is that the basics are either missing or have been corrupted in allowing bad feelings to creep into the horse’s thoughts. Whether a horse has learned bad habits or just doesn’t know how to respond, the problem lies in reprogramming the basics. It’s no different in my eyes.
I have said this before and I’ll say it again. In the past, people have asked me about buying a young, untrained horse to avoid buying something that already has problems. I tell them that if you don’t know enough to fix problems in a horse that already exist, then you don’t know enough to ensure you don’t put problems in a horse. The skills needed to train a green horse are the same skills needed to fix a spoiled horse.
If you have a horse that has a problem, you don’t need to go looking for a trainer with a bag of magic tricks for fixing problems. You just need to go back to the beginning and fill in the holes that were left by the early training.
Balance and Fairness
Hello Ross,
So much of what you had written recently had resonated with me and generally does . It is encouraging you are putting forward important issues for many to read and giving opportunity for deeper consideration of practices and approaches. Everything that can lead to greater clarity, consistency and respect for the horse is of value. And that is why I was a quite disappointed with the piece on the rein tension research. It seemed a tad spiteful and seems a bit unreasonable to not acknowledge that rein tension is clearly an issue for many horses and riders. It might seem obvious to great riders with a lot of feel but most riders are not like that and if research can add weight to the importance of educating ourselves on the importance of developing a feel for holding hands with our horse then all the better. If it seems a bit silly that we need it then blame the failure of riders, coaches and judges to apply self- discipline and take proper responsibility. Clearly, we are failing horses. Besides, there the research might reveal some surprises, maybe not, but it does happen that opinion or ideas we hold dear prove to be incorrect. You know this I think so I don’t understand why you wrote such a seemingly unbalanced appraisal of research that is intended to benefit the horse. Shouldn’t we celebrate anything that is intended to improve the welfare of the horse? If it were so easy to master the need to evaluate rein tension effects would not be necessary but it still might prove useful. Clearly however, it is not that easy for many riders to apply and it would seem difficult for judges to assess correctly or there would be less controversy and more enforcement for the rules. Perhaps research can help to ensure better enforcement and education. Agreed, it might seem a bit silly but then all information should be welcomed, fair and effective riding and handling is not second nature to many horse riders. Besides, though it might seem a bit silly at first look, connecting to the horse with reins is an enormous responsibility and a huge part of riding and I think the horse might think it rather important to get it right. And it clearly isn’t right enough.
That the equine scientists want to make out it is all simple is not fair I don’t think. You are so sort of scientific in your own thinking it seems odd for you to be so against what I see in your own work and writings. I think they want to make it simple enough that people can reliably implement practices that benefit the horse. I think you’d agree that horses like it kept simple via clarity and consistency. We don’t want it to appear difficult though there might be much going on behind the scenes. There is much complexity to consider deeply but in the end we need to make it as simple as possible to ensure the horse benefits from clarity and consistency rather than confronted by approaches that suit human needs and egos more than horses and so confuse. A nurturing scientific approach seems fair and respectful to the horse to me. The alternative can be a bit haphazard and perhaps why there are so many apologies in book forwards to horses who have suffered before a horse trainer became enlightened or educated.
There have been many other blogs that I would have liked to comment on in unison with your thoughts. I loved the piece on appreciating the potential effect of words on action … bit of a thing of mine too. I struggle with obedience but accept that it means a light timely response and don’t consider the opposite as relevant. That is, disobedience is not relevant in talking about a horse. But it is a word along with respect and attitude that can be easily used to put blame on the horse. I appreciated too your discussion of feet and anxiety and fear. Taking this thought further, we chose to not let a horse move feet in anxiety but work to help them to stand still to find calm. The standing still helps them to change their thoughts to borrow your emphasis. I tend to think feet feed to thoughts as well as thoughts feeding to feet. A sort of feedback loop. The amount of foot movement relating to the degree of anxiety. Anyway, enough for now.
I am quite happy for you to not post this email as it is a bit personal in nature and perhaps I haven’t added that much to the thoughts. I am not sure I should even send it but in for a dollar …
Suzanne
Thank you for your well considered response. I welcome it and will post it if you have no objections.
A point that I should make from the outset is that my blog is not meant to provide balanced views. I am not the Australian Broadcasting Commission. My blog reflects my views. Other people's blog will reflect their view. So I don't feel an obligation to publish all points of view with no bias. I will offer my opinions from the position of how I see things.
I don't believe there is any argument from any quarters that rein pressure is not an important factor in training. I also don't believe there is any argument that the appropriate rein pressure varies from horse to horse.
But the problem with using a device to measure rein pressure is two fold in my view. Firstly, the appropriate amount of rein pressure not only varies from horse to horse, but also from fraction of a second to fraction of a second with the same horse. It changes so quickly that it is not possible for the pressure meter to either have the appropriate response time or to provide measurements that offer any practical meaning that can be used to define how rider's should use the reins.
Secondly, the pressure gauge does not determine whether the pressure is coming from the rider or the horse. For example, if the pressure decreases, it is the rider giving back the rein or the horse yielding to the rein? How does one know? Do we rely on the rider telling us? Well, what if the pressure decreases because both the horse and the rider yields? How do we know then?
I was a medical researcher for many years before becoming a full time horse trainer. One of my strongest talents (if I had any as a scientist) was my ability to design good studies. I was very good at seeing the faults and limitations in research protocols very quickly. Having read some of the studies done with the Rein Check device, alarm bells go off in my mind about the research being done. I fear the questionable results will be used to justify some pretty poor horsemanship practices.
But all that aside, I do believe that horsemanship is an interaction between animals with highly developed central nervous systems. There is a communication between rider and horse that is very subtle and I feel not yet able to be measured on a meter. It would seem to me to be in the best interest of the horse to educate riders in this regard. The horse is a measuring device on how the rider is doing. Each horse is calibrated exactly and precisely and it's response time is exactly what is needed. You don't have to engineer a machine to do what the horse already does better.
If you would like to further this discussion, I'd be happy to e-mail about it. But I leave early in the morning for a 3 week clinic tour and won't be blogging until my return.
You raise other points about the feet and standing still that could make for a good discussion, but I'm sorry it will have to wait because I have so much to do before the morning. I hope you understand.
Thanks again and I hope you will continue to offer your thoughts in the future.
Hello Ross,
So much of what you had written recently had resonated with me and generally does . It is encouraging you are putting forward important issues for many to read and giving opportunity for deeper consideration of practices and approaches. Everything that can lead to greater clarity, consistency and respect for the horse is of value. And that is why I was a quite disappointed with the piece on the rein tension research. It seemed a tad spiteful and seems a bit unreasonable to not acknowledge that rein tension is clearly an issue for many horses and riders. It might seem obvious to great riders with a lot of feel but most riders are not like that and if research can add weight to the importance of educating ourselves on the importance of developing a feel for holding hands with our horse then all the better. If it seems a bit silly that we need it then blame the failure of riders, coaches and judges to apply self- discipline and take proper responsibility. Clearly, we are failing horses. Besides, there the research might reveal some surprises, maybe not, but it does happen that opinion or ideas we hold dear prove to be incorrect. You know this I think so I don’t understand why you wrote such a seemingly unbalanced appraisal of research that is intended to benefit the horse. Shouldn’t we celebrate anything that is intended to improve the welfare of the horse? If it were so easy to master the need to evaluate rein tension effects would not be necessary but it still might prove useful. Clearly however, it is not that easy for many riders to apply and it would seem difficult for judges to assess correctly or there would be less controversy and more enforcement for the rules. Perhaps research can help to ensure better enforcement and education. Agreed, it might seem a bit silly but then all information should be welcomed, fair and effective riding and handling is not second nature to many horse riders. Besides, though it might seem a bit silly at first look, connecting to the horse with reins is an enormous responsibility and a huge part of riding and I think the horse might think it rather important to get it right. And it clearly isn’t right enough.
That the equine scientists want to make out it is all simple is not fair I don’t think. You are so sort of scientific in your own thinking it seems odd for you to be so against what I see in your own work and writings. I think they want to make it simple enough that people can reliably implement practices that benefit the horse. I think you’d agree that horses like it kept simple via clarity and consistency. We don’t want it to appear difficult though there might be much going on behind the scenes. There is much complexity to consider deeply but in the end we need to make it as simple as possible to ensure the horse benefits from clarity and consistency rather than confronted by approaches that suit human needs and egos more than horses and so confuse. A nurturing scientific approach seems fair and respectful to the horse to me. The alternative can be a bit haphazard and perhaps why there are so many apologies in book forwards to horses who have suffered before a horse trainer became enlightened or educated.
There have been many other blogs that I would have liked to comment on in unison with your thoughts. I loved the piece on appreciating the potential effect of words on action … bit of a thing of mine too. I struggle with obedience but accept that it means a light timely response and don’t consider the opposite as relevant. That is, disobedience is not relevant in talking about a horse. But it is a word along with respect and attitude that can be easily used to put blame on the horse. I appreciated too your discussion of feet and anxiety and fear. Taking this thought further, we chose to not let a horse move feet in anxiety but work to help them to stand still to find calm. The standing still helps them to change their thoughts to borrow your emphasis. I tend to think feet feed to thoughts as well as thoughts feeding to feet. A sort of feedback loop. The amount of foot movement relating to the degree of anxiety. Anyway, enough for now.
I am quite happy for you to not post this email as it is a bit personal in nature and perhaps I haven’t added that much to the thoughts. I am not sure I should even send it but in for a dollar …
Suzanne
Thank you for your well considered response. I welcome it and will post it if you have no objections.
A point that I should make from the outset is that my blog is not meant to provide balanced views. I am not the Australian Broadcasting Commission. My blog reflects my views. Other people's blog will reflect their view. So I don't feel an obligation to publish all points of view with no bias. I will offer my opinions from the position of how I see things.
I don't believe there is any argument from any quarters that rein pressure is not an important factor in training. I also don't believe there is any argument that the appropriate rein pressure varies from horse to horse.
But the problem with using a device to measure rein pressure is two fold in my view. Firstly, the appropriate amount of rein pressure not only varies from horse to horse, but also from fraction of a second to fraction of a second with the same horse. It changes so quickly that it is not possible for the pressure meter to either have the appropriate response time or to provide measurements that offer any practical meaning that can be used to define how rider's should use the reins.
Secondly, the pressure gauge does not determine whether the pressure is coming from the rider or the horse. For example, if the pressure decreases, it is the rider giving back the rein or the horse yielding to the rein? How does one know? Do we rely on the rider telling us? Well, what if the pressure decreases because both the horse and the rider yields? How do we know then?
I was a medical researcher for many years before becoming a full time horse trainer. One of my strongest talents (if I had any as a scientist) was my ability to design good studies. I was very good at seeing the faults and limitations in research protocols very quickly. Having read some of the studies done with the Rein Check device, alarm bells go off in my mind about the research being done. I fear the questionable results will be used to justify some pretty poor horsemanship practices.
But all that aside, I do believe that horsemanship is an interaction between animals with highly developed central nervous systems. There is a communication between rider and horse that is very subtle and I feel not yet able to be measured on a meter. It would seem to me to be in the best interest of the horse to educate riders in this regard. The horse is a measuring device on how the rider is doing. Each horse is calibrated exactly and precisely and it's response time is exactly what is needed. You don't have to engineer a machine to do what the horse already does better.
If you would like to further this discussion, I'd be happy to e-mail about it. But I leave early in the morning for a 3 week clinic tour and won't be blogging until my return.
You raise other points about the feet and standing still that could make for a good discussion, but I'm sorry it will have to wait because I have so much to do before the morning. I hope you understand.
Thanks again and I hope you will continue to offer your thoughts in the future.
Job Security
Hi Ross,
I used to despair of things ever getting better for the horses, too, but then I realized all this nonsense really is - is job security! As long as there are people mucking it up to avoid having to change themselves, or advise others to change their thinking or attitude, there will be horses that need help from those of us who have a clue. Cheers, Gail
www.gailivey.com
It's good to hear from you. It's been a while. I had no idea you read my blog.
I see your point about job security except there are so many people working with horses that don't know there is more to learn and more on offer. A lot of people would see something like the rein check measuring gauge as a good idea to help them get along better with their horse. If the gauge tells them they are using the correct amount of pressure (according to the research), then anything that goes wrong with their horse will be the horse's fault. They won't come to people like you for help when they have the rein check to help them because it's a lot easier to use a device than to learn to feel of their horse.
Where we live now there is a lot of poor horsemanship, but there is no work for me because people are not interested in learning about their horses. They are only interested in learning how to beat the other person at the next event. If they do have issues with their horse, it gets sold and another is bought. So in reality I don't see job security in the spreading interest of horsemanship by numbers - not in the type of horsemanship that you and I try to practice. I do believe there will always be a market, but it will always be a small market. The mainstream market is for trainers that offer horsemanship in a pre-packaged, easy to follow step-by-step form.
Anyway, thanks for writing. I hope life and work are going well for you.
Hi Ross,
I used to despair of things ever getting better for the horses, too, but then I realized all this nonsense really is - is job security! As long as there are people mucking it up to avoid having to change themselves, or advise others to change their thinking or attitude, there will be horses that need help from those of us who have a clue. Cheers, Gail
www.gailivey.com
It's good to hear from you. It's been a while. I had no idea you read my blog.
I see your point about job security except there are so many people working with horses that don't know there is more to learn and more on offer. A lot of people would see something like the rein check measuring gauge as a good idea to help them get along better with their horse. If the gauge tells them they are using the correct amount of pressure (according to the research), then anything that goes wrong with their horse will be the horse's fault. They won't come to people like you for help when they have the rein check to help them because it's a lot easier to use a device than to learn to feel of their horse.
Where we live now there is a lot of poor horsemanship, but there is no work for me because people are not interested in learning about their horses. They are only interested in learning how to beat the other person at the next event. If they do have issues with their horse, it gets sold and another is bought. So in reality I don't see job security in the spreading interest of horsemanship by numbers - not in the type of horsemanship that you and I try to practice. I do believe there will always be a market, but it will always be a small market. The mainstream market is for trainers that offer horsemanship in a pre-packaged, easy to follow step-by-step form.
Anyway, thanks for writing. I hope life and work are going well for you.
Backing A Horse From The Ground
Someone shared this with me. There is definitely some talent here:
Someone shared this with me. There is definitely some talent here:
Horse appears to be a good jumper. I am not sure about the neck rope and the horse's posture though.
Next thang,
I am working with a little Arab mare. Very smart, carried a lot of tension initially. Not much history on her background though. One lingering concern is how she feels about the rope. I can back her up with a finger wiggle, I can back her up with the knot of the halter moving with her. There is a world of difference between these two back ups though. She is more confident following my body (backing with her, and will get soft and move her feet easily). However if I ask her to back with the lead and some energy going through it, she always braces though she does back. I can start with the finger wiggle, head comes up neck shoves down, big bulge. While the bracy-ness has improved it is still I there.
Do you have any thoughts on this (in your spare time....haha).
Hope everything is checked off the To-Do list!
Kathy
Thanks for the link to the video. The girl is a New Zealander and she and her sister have done several demos at shows with their bareback jumping.
I agree that the horse is a handy jumper. But the training is pretty ordinary.
The athletic ability of a horse is genetically determined for the most part (presuming a horse has a healthy start in life). Also in jumping, once a horse has left the ground there is very little a rider can do about helping the horse clear the jump. Some people try to train a horse to lift his legs higher, but this generally ends in ordinary results because the methods used often make a horse worried about hitting a rail. But the thing that training can influence is a horse's approach and departure from a jump, as well as the balance it carries around the course. If you look at the video again, you'll see the horse does not turn correctly and he doesn't adjust his stride in response to the rider's command - any adjustments are made by his own judgment. Overall, I think the video is an example of a good horse being badly trained.
I believe without the bareback and bridleless factor, people would not give this video a second look. But what good is jumping bareback and bridleless if everything else is rubbish? To me, it's another example of trainers tricking people into believe they are good horse people with a "wow" factor to their performance rather than good horsemanship. It's the same criticism I have made of Guy McLean and Karen Roth and Double Dans in recent blogs. It's showmanship over horsemanship.
With regard to your Arab backing with a brace, I would offer 2 thoughts about how you might approach the issue.
The first is to keep wiggling the rope until she drops her head and relaxes her back. I suspect that you stop wiggling the rope when she moves her feet backwards. But if she still has a brace at that moment you are not only teaching her to back up, but you are teaching her to back up with a brace. Adding softness into the movement will require you to wait and keep wiggling until she softens. You might wiggle with less energy while you wait for to her to let go of the brace, but you do enough to keep her search for how to stop you wiggling the rope. Even if she stops backing and then softens, I might release for that at first. Or she might only make a fraction of a try to soften - which would again be the time to stop wiggling the rope. But as the softening registers in her brain as the best way to respond you'll soon be able to put the moving of the feet and the soften at the same time. Arabs are super smart and if you are clear and consistent this can work fine.
But the second idea might be better for you and your mare. First, teach her to lower her head and be soft in your hand by touching the lead rope under her chin. When this is easy, use your hand under her chin to ask her to back up and stay soft in your hand at the same time. If she tries to lift her head, block it with your hand and hold until she is soft again. If she gets heavy in your hand to not backup, be a little firmer. Work at it until you have finger tip control of her backing by just touching the lead rope under her chin and she will back with life and softness.
Now that you have that working it's time to add the rope wiggle. If you use your right hand under her chin to back her up, start by first wiggling the lead rope with our left hand. If she doesn't move or braces against the pressure, use your right hand under her chin to get her to move or soften while you keep wiggling the lead rope. So wiggle the lead rope first, then support it with your other hand under her chin. Repeat this several times. Ask her by wiggling the rope then clear up what you want with her hand under her chin. Pretty soon she will begin to get ready the moment you prepare to wiggle the rope - that's when you stop. Build on that until she can step back softly when you wiggle the lead rope. If at any time she braces up, use your hand under her chin to support her and block the brace while you keep wiggling the rope with your other hand. It is better to help her with your hand under her chin than it is to get stronger with wiggling the lead rope because more energy in the lead rope will exacerbate the tension that causes the brace.
Try those couple of things. I don't know which might be better for your situation, but I think one of those approaches will help. Let me know if you have any questions and how you get along.
Hi Ross,
I thought the gal could sit nicely as a bareback rider....
So about that Arab mare, see below:
>The first is to keep wiggling the rope until she drops her head and relaxes her back. I suspect that you stop wiggling the rope when she moves her feet backwards.
No, I don't stop wiggling just because she moves her feet. When she first came I did the first few times, but she was tense about everything at first. As she figured things out she was able to soften and relax in many areas. I have spent a lot of time backing her until there is a subtle change and then start the request again. The feel of the rope bothers her. Yesterday I took her to a new field and when I worked her on line in there she had to shake her head because of the flies. (Because she was uncertain in this new field she was tense.) When she shook her head and it caused the lead attached to the halter to move strongly she flung her head up like I had sent some energy down the line. But I wasn't doing anything. She is ultra sensitive, so her tension and relaxation is very clear to see.
> But if she still has a brace at that moment you are not only teaching her to back up, but you are teaching her to back up with a brace. Adding softness into the movement will require you to wait and keep wiggling until she softens. You might wiggle with less energy while you wait for to her to let go of the brace, but you do enough to keep her search for how to stop you wiggling the rope. Even if she stops backing and then softens, I might release for that at first.
I have done this as well. I was looking for incremental changes in her and could see that the softness was coming in. I felt like progress has been made on the backing. But there still is a level of tension...
> Or she might only make a fraction of a try to soften - which would again be the time to stop wiggling the rope. But as the softening registers in her brain as the best way to respond you'll soon be able to put the moving of the feet and the soften at the same time. Arabs are super smart and if you are clear and consistent this can work fine.
>But the second idea might be better for you and your mare. First, teach her to lower her head and be soft in your hand by touching the lead rope under her chin. When this is easy, use your hand under her chin to ask her to back up and stay soft in your hand at the same time. If she tries to lift her head, block it with your hand and hold until she is soft again. If she gets heavy in your hand to not backup, be a little firmer. Work at it until you have finger tip control of her backing by just touching the lead rope under her chin and she will back with life and softness.
I have already taught her to lower her head by touching the rope. I liked this idea and worked with her on it out in her pasture. It was easy to have finger tip control and get her lively and soft, when I am moving backwards with her.
>Now that you have that working it's time to add the rope wiggle. If you use your right hand under her chin to back her up, start by first wiggling the lead rope with our left hand. If she doesn't move or braces against the pressure, use your right hand under her chin to get her to move or soften while you keep wiggling the lead rope. So wiggle the lead rope first, then support it with your other hand under her chin. Repeat this several times. Ask her by wiggling the rope then clear up what you want with her hand under her chin. Pretty soon she will begin to get ready the moment you prepare to wiggle the rope - that's when you stop. Build on that until she can step back softly when you wiggle the lead rope. If at any time she braces up, use your hand under her chin to support her and block the brace while you keep wiggling the rope with your other hand. It is better to help her with your hand under her chin than it is to get stronger with wiggling the lead rope because more energy in the lead rope will exacerbate the tension that causes the brace.
So this worked GREAT!! I really appreciate your tip on this. However. If there is any distance between her and I, say half the length of the rope, then when you wiggle the lead the head comes up (less bracing mind you) as she backs. But it is LESS TENSE, though there is still that little brace. I can keep her soft and lively close but whenever the space becomes bigger between her and I and the rope is asking (even it I just wave my finger), the neck will push down slightly, head comes up as the feet go back. I guess I can be a yo-yo (I move in close and the back out) for a while and reinforce the head down backing.
I will let you know how this progresses. She is a very interesting little mare. I truly appreciate your advice on this.
Kathy
If you find the mare continues to struggle, put a video on YouTube and maybe I can make some suggestions. It costs nothing for the first video and it can be kept private between us if you like.
April 26, 2012
How Good Are Your Brakes?
In the 2012 February/March edition of Town and Country Farmer magazine there was a small article entitled “How Good Are Your Horse Brakes?” I want to thank Nic Ware for bring it to my attention. I can’t reproduce it here because of a potential copyright breach, but I can summarize the essence of the article.
It outlines a proposed research project by Paul McGreevy to examine how to better improve the horse’s response to a rider’s reins. Paul McGreevy is a professor of veterinary science who specialized field of research is the behaviour of horses. People in Australia may know him better as a colleague and mentor of Andrew McLean – a horse trainer in Australia who was awarded his PHD in equine behaviour under McGeevy’s supervision.
McGeevy makes the claim that horses injure and kill more people than any other animal in Australia and asserts that most of these accidents are caused by the inability to control a horse’s flight response. His research is focused on finding ways to best gain control of a horse in flight mode. So basically he is claiming that his research is targeted towards making equestrian sports safer for riders. This is an angle that all researchers use to loosen the purses of funding bodies. If you want grant money always spin the justification for the research towards saving lives, saving money or public interest. But once a link has been established between the project and saving lives, the researcher can then twist it around to what they really want to do (which McGeevy hints at in the article).
McGeevy suggests that one important reason horses can become impossible to control is that they become desensitized to the pressure of the bit, which then loses effective control. This is where he reveals his true interest.
The article further explains that in order to better understand how this desensitization develops, McGeevy is going to use a pressure gauge between the rein and the bit to monitor the rein pressure used by a rider (click on the photo to enlarge and see the rein check device). Presumably the data will be used to identify the rein pressure used by riders that can maintain a soft response from a horse and ones that create resistance in a horse. The article doesn’t really say.
What I don’t understand is why there is a need for a mechanical device to measure rein pressure. And what relevance does it have?
In order to maintain a responsive mouth on a horse, rein pressure needs to change from second to second in accordance to what the horse might need. It is not some static thing that once you have the pressure you want it stays like that for the entire ride. So what advantage does measuring rein pressure offer? In addition, each horse will require different degrees of contact in order to get a change in them simply because some are more sensitive by nature. So again, what advantage does measuring rein pressure offer?
But to me the most obvious stupidity in this study is that there is already an inbuilt pressure monitor that can be used to determine appropriate rein pressure – and it is far more relevant than a number on a mechanical gauge. I’m talking about the horse’s brain.
To be a good rider, riders need to learn to feel of their horse. The horse lets them know if the rein pressure is good or bad. It is absolutely obvious to every rider with feel. But to put a number on the amount of pressure has no relevance to a rider and it has no relevance to a horse. Riding by numbers is akin to painting by numbers, but more dangerous.
To further add to the idiocy of using these devices to measure rein pressure, I have read a report from a conference on behaviour and training that the bridles of horses in dressage competition be fitted with rein pressure devices so that judges can determine if a rider is using too much contact or not. Firstly, what is a person doing judging dressage if they cannot determine appropriate use of the reins by watching the horse? And secondly, who is going to decide what number on the gauge is going to be the cut off between too much and too little rein pressure?
And finally, I just want to point out how the use of these pressure gauges has gone from being about saving lives to standardizing what is good or bad contact. I have examined many research proposals in my time and if this one had come across my desk I would immediately put a red mark through it on the first reading. It wouldn’t even make it to the granting committee.
As you can probably tell, it bothers me that there is growing trend towards making horsemanship and riding a numbers game. It’s becoming more about if you read the information you need, you will know all you need to know about horses, riding and training. Andrew McLean wrote a book called “The Truth About Horses” and in it tried to package horse training into simple steps. Pat Parelli tells you that if you learn the 7 games you will become a good horse person and be able to train horses. Clinton Anderson tells you to buy his dvd set to know everything you need to know. John O’Leary tells people any amateur can break in a horse with his dvds. They all offer step-by-step methods to train a horse. They over simplifiy, misled and misrepresent horsemanship and riding.
And soon we will have a table of information to look up that will tell us how much rein pressure to use to have a horse with a responsive mouth. Of course, we will need to buy their pressure gauge to fit to our bridle so we know we are using the right number.
Sometimes I get out of bed and wish I felt younger. But then sometimes I am glad I am not young and just starting out in the business of training horses – I despair at it’s future.
In the 2012 February/March edition of Town and Country Farmer magazine there was a small article entitled “How Good Are Your Horse Brakes?” I want to thank Nic Ware for bring it to my attention. I can’t reproduce it here because of a potential copyright breach, but I can summarize the essence of the article.
It outlines a proposed research project by Paul McGreevy to examine how to better improve the horse’s response to a rider’s reins. Paul McGreevy is a professor of veterinary science who specialized field of research is the behaviour of horses. People in Australia may know him better as a colleague and mentor of Andrew McLean – a horse trainer in Australia who was awarded his PHD in equine behaviour under McGeevy’s supervision.
McGeevy makes the claim that horses injure and kill more people than any other animal in Australia and asserts that most of these accidents are caused by the inability to control a horse’s flight response. His research is focused on finding ways to best gain control of a horse in flight mode. So basically he is claiming that his research is targeted towards making equestrian sports safer for riders. This is an angle that all researchers use to loosen the purses of funding bodies. If you want grant money always spin the justification for the research towards saving lives, saving money or public interest. But once a link has been established between the project and saving lives, the researcher can then twist it around to what they really want to do (which McGeevy hints at in the article).
McGeevy suggests that one important reason horses can become impossible to control is that they become desensitized to the pressure of the bit, which then loses effective control. This is where he reveals his true interest.
The article further explains that in order to better understand how this desensitization develops, McGeevy is going to use a pressure gauge between the rein and the bit to monitor the rein pressure used by a rider (click on the photo to enlarge and see the rein check device). Presumably the data will be used to identify the rein pressure used by riders that can maintain a soft response from a horse and ones that create resistance in a horse. The article doesn’t really say.
What I don’t understand is why there is a need for a mechanical device to measure rein pressure. And what relevance does it have?
In order to maintain a responsive mouth on a horse, rein pressure needs to change from second to second in accordance to what the horse might need. It is not some static thing that once you have the pressure you want it stays like that for the entire ride. So what advantage does measuring rein pressure offer? In addition, each horse will require different degrees of contact in order to get a change in them simply because some are more sensitive by nature. So again, what advantage does measuring rein pressure offer?
But to me the most obvious stupidity in this study is that there is already an inbuilt pressure monitor that can be used to determine appropriate rein pressure – and it is far more relevant than a number on a mechanical gauge. I’m talking about the horse’s brain.
To be a good rider, riders need to learn to feel of their horse. The horse lets them know if the rein pressure is good or bad. It is absolutely obvious to every rider with feel. But to put a number on the amount of pressure has no relevance to a rider and it has no relevance to a horse. Riding by numbers is akin to painting by numbers, but more dangerous.
To further add to the idiocy of using these devices to measure rein pressure, I have read a report from a conference on behaviour and training that the bridles of horses in dressage competition be fitted with rein pressure devices so that judges can determine if a rider is using too much contact or not. Firstly, what is a person doing judging dressage if they cannot determine appropriate use of the reins by watching the horse? And secondly, who is going to decide what number on the gauge is going to be the cut off between too much and too little rein pressure?
And finally, I just want to point out how the use of these pressure gauges has gone from being about saving lives to standardizing what is good or bad contact. I have examined many research proposals in my time and if this one had come across my desk I would immediately put a red mark through it on the first reading. It wouldn’t even make it to the granting committee.
As you can probably tell, it bothers me that there is growing trend towards making horsemanship and riding a numbers game. It’s becoming more about if you read the information you need, you will know all you need to know about horses, riding and training. Andrew McLean wrote a book called “The Truth About Horses” and in it tried to package horse training into simple steps. Pat Parelli tells you that if you learn the 7 games you will become a good horse person and be able to train horses. Clinton Anderson tells you to buy his dvd set to know everything you need to know. John O’Leary tells people any amateur can break in a horse with his dvds. They all offer step-by-step methods to train a horse. They over simplifiy, misled and misrepresent horsemanship and riding.
And soon we will have a table of information to look up that will tell us how much rein pressure to use to have a horse with a responsive mouth. Of course, we will need to buy their pressure gauge to fit to our bridle so we know we are using the right number.
Sometimes I get out of bed and wish I felt younger. But then sometimes I am glad I am not young and just starting out in the business of training horses – I despair at it’s future.
Update on Maryanne’s Pony and Horse
Hi Ross,
Glad you got your jobs done and are ready for your trip. Hope it goes well. I’ve had about 10 days off riding due to taking kids away, rain and very cold weather.
Anyway today was a nice day and I thought it will be interesting to see how the horses go for a ride and how I am progressing with pony and horse after a long spell. First the pony. In the yard he was full of ears back, don’t touch me bugger off I rather enjoy my holiday. I worked in the yard for about 20 mins getting these thoughts to subside, not by moving his feet but gentle bending, touching, throwing ropes over and playing some games with him. Once when his sour little muzzle came over to me I started playing with his chin, tickling his nose and playing a game with him. He couldn’t stay sour for long and soon he just started yawning and yawning. I have seen him do this before when I got him to relax in a training session out in field so it was a good sign. Got him in a better state of mind then saddled up and took him in hand over obstacles, embankments and through the bush to purge any left over sourness and get him focussed on me not his thoughts. I took him on a trail through the bush then mounted and rode him through the bush. Observations, no neighing, listened, better to mount, no brace in body trying to go in his direction and good stops. He seemed much happier being with me once I work on those sour moments in the yard. I think he has some ingrained behaviours that he arrived with and it pays to do the prep in the yard to help him get over himself and realise he does not have to be defensive. On the trail I thought he was terrific. Totally out of his comfort zone, out of sight of herd and in a place he had not been to before. Little daughter will be happy for the report when she gets home from school. She gets her cast off next Thursday.
Next was horse. Same deal, prep in yard to gauge how he was feeling. He was a little distracted. Decided to do some old exercises with ropes before riding to try and keep him focussed on me not his herd (as usual!). Rode briefly in the arena and then left to the main paddock. After reading Tom’s books, there were lots of strong thought magnets pulling him toward his herd. I realised he was tuning me out a bit and I focussed on getting him straight with limited success but did things like bending, direction changes, stops and the pace I wanted. I felt his thoughts re herd were quite strong today and he wanted to rejoin them so I was prepared. Walking back, then he broke into a canter from walk. I didn’t worry as I knew he had a little trouble inside and let him canter up the hill a ways then got him back to a walk. He tried to canter again and I felt his adrenalin rise and I disengaged his hqs and stopped then walked on a loose rein like nothing happened. I wasn’t worried as I was ready and knew early on in ride how distracted he was. Instead of going back to his herd then, I made him trot up the hill in the opposite direction to our shed of horrors. He hesitated but I urged him on and got to the shed to untack. I feel that although I need to work on keeping his thoughts with me, I held my ground and turned the ride into a positive. We finished in a quiet calm way. There was no jig jogging or tension. I kept a loose rein as much as I could and didn’t fuss. I am happy that I have learnt to keep calm and ride things out like the pony bad hair day.
I am going to sit down and write some comments about Tom’s book because when I ride now, I am so much more prepared and can spot trouble and deal with it in many different ways. I now have you, Harry, Tom Dorrance and now Tom Moates in my head and that helps me to assess what’s happening and think how to deal with it even when things get tricky! Bloody marvellous. I still can’t believe this middle aged ol duck is riding a very sensitive, athletic warmblood and enjoying it. I don’t feel nervous just focussed and calm.
Regards Maryanne
I'm very glad to hear how the pony is going, but particularly glad that you handled a little upset with your WB. I have no doubt that with experience and your continued patience and calmness that he'll prove to be a gem of a horse.
I guess your daughter is excited about have the cast off on Tuesday. She'll get a shock at how pale and atrophied it is going to look.
I look forward to your thoughts on Tom's latest book. I know Tom reads my site from time to time, so I'm sure he'll be seriously interested too.
Hi Ross,
Glad you got your jobs done and are ready for your trip. Hope it goes well. I’ve had about 10 days off riding due to taking kids away, rain and very cold weather.
Anyway today was a nice day and I thought it will be interesting to see how the horses go for a ride and how I am progressing with pony and horse after a long spell. First the pony. In the yard he was full of ears back, don’t touch me bugger off I rather enjoy my holiday. I worked in the yard for about 20 mins getting these thoughts to subside, not by moving his feet but gentle bending, touching, throwing ropes over and playing some games with him. Once when his sour little muzzle came over to me I started playing with his chin, tickling his nose and playing a game with him. He couldn’t stay sour for long and soon he just started yawning and yawning. I have seen him do this before when I got him to relax in a training session out in field so it was a good sign. Got him in a better state of mind then saddled up and took him in hand over obstacles, embankments and through the bush to purge any left over sourness and get him focussed on me not his thoughts. I took him on a trail through the bush then mounted and rode him through the bush. Observations, no neighing, listened, better to mount, no brace in body trying to go in his direction and good stops. He seemed much happier being with me once I work on those sour moments in the yard. I think he has some ingrained behaviours that he arrived with and it pays to do the prep in the yard to help him get over himself and realise he does not have to be defensive. On the trail I thought he was terrific. Totally out of his comfort zone, out of sight of herd and in a place he had not been to before. Little daughter will be happy for the report when she gets home from school. She gets her cast off next Thursday.
Next was horse. Same deal, prep in yard to gauge how he was feeling. He was a little distracted. Decided to do some old exercises with ropes before riding to try and keep him focussed on me not his herd (as usual!). Rode briefly in the arena and then left to the main paddock. After reading Tom’s books, there were lots of strong thought magnets pulling him toward his herd. I realised he was tuning me out a bit and I focussed on getting him straight with limited success but did things like bending, direction changes, stops and the pace I wanted. I felt his thoughts re herd were quite strong today and he wanted to rejoin them so I was prepared. Walking back, then he broke into a canter from walk. I didn’t worry as I knew he had a little trouble inside and let him canter up the hill a ways then got him back to a walk. He tried to canter again and I felt his adrenalin rise and I disengaged his hqs and stopped then walked on a loose rein like nothing happened. I wasn’t worried as I was ready and knew early on in ride how distracted he was. Instead of going back to his herd then, I made him trot up the hill in the opposite direction to our shed of horrors. He hesitated but I urged him on and got to the shed to untack. I feel that although I need to work on keeping his thoughts with me, I held my ground and turned the ride into a positive. We finished in a quiet calm way. There was no jig jogging or tension. I kept a loose rein as much as I could and didn’t fuss. I am happy that I have learnt to keep calm and ride things out like the pony bad hair day.
I am going to sit down and write some comments about Tom’s book because when I ride now, I am so much more prepared and can spot trouble and deal with it in many different ways. I now have you, Harry, Tom Dorrance and now Tom Moates in my head and that helps me to assess what’s happening and think how to deal with it even when things get tricky! Bloody marvellous. I still can’t believe this middle aged ol duck is riding a very sensitive, athletic warmblood and enjoying it. I don’t feel nervous just focussed and calm.
Regards Maryanne
I'm very glad to hear how the pony is going, but particularly glad that you handled a little upset with your WB. I have no doubt that with experience and your continued patience and calmness that he'll prove to be a gem of a horse.
I guess your daughter is excited about have the cast off on Tuesday. She'll get a shock at how pale and atrophied it is going to look.
I look forward to your thoughts on Tom's latest book. I know Tom reads my site from time to time, so I'm sure he'll be seriously interested too.
Expressing Anxiety
I have been thinking a lot lately about why so many trainers place so much emphasis on controlling a horse’s feet as a means of controlling their minds.
If you look at the way many people use a round yard to get a horse to hook on or do “join up”, it’s by driving a horse around the yard. It seems most schools of training that try to get a horse to “join up” use the technique of moving a horse until he gives up. It’s as if by moving a horse’s feet they will want to be with the person.
I watched Michele’s horse, Guy pacing the fence a few days ago. He is a super horse, but he loves routine and he loves food because of his insecurities. He gets fed about the same time each day. About an hour before his usual feeding time he stands around the fence closest to where he is normally fed. The other five horses might be at opposite ends of the 30-acre paddock, but he leaves them and comes up the fence. He then paces about half way along the fence – back and forth – until the food arrives.
I believe the pacing is an expression of his anxiety. Being fed is so important to him that the idea of food arriving builds an anxiety inside of Guy. When either Michele or I appear with the bucket, his pacing quickens and he might even trot until we are actually at the gate. He knows to go and stand by his bucket and wait until the food is in his bucket and we have stepped away before eating. He is very polite about this, but his tension is obvious.
This is the part that I feel stupid to admit, but Guy made me realize that a horse’s emotions are expressed through his feet. When a horse is anxious, he moves his feet. Few horses will choose to stand still when worried unless they are so worried they freeze. The amount of anxiety is often reflected by the energy in their feet. When a horse is relaxed and feeling okay, they generally don’t choose to move a lot. Horses are by nature fairly lazy animals – like some Aussie horse trainers who shall remain nameless – so most need a reason to move.
When you see or ride a horse with more energy in his feet than necessary to get a job done, you can be pretty sure there is anxiety driving the feet.
This revelation finally explains in my mind why then people get so fixated about using the feet to tap into a horse’s mind and emotions. It’s hard to separate a horse’s emotions from what he is doing. And it is hard to influence a horse’s emotions. But in comparison it is fairly easy to influence what a horse is doing. We can direct him to move much easier than we can change the way he feels without him moving (without using pharmaceuticals). This being the case, it is easy to see why driving or directing the feet of a horse is a commonly recommended way of getting a change in the way a horse feels. And it is does work if done properly.
I’m not knocking moving the feet as a way of tapping into a horse’s emotions. I do it myself all the time. But where I think the message has gone wrong is that “moving the feet” has been sold as the answer to people’s problems. But in my view the answer lies in “changing how he feels” with or without moving the feet. Moving the feet in itself serves no useful purpose other than to exercise a horse. You can direct the feet without getting a change in how he feels – most people do. However, if you move the feet and get a change inside your horse then you have made progress. But it is not necessary to always move a horse in order to change how he feels either.
I guess what I am saying is that the important thing is to evoke a change in how your horse feels. Most people try to do this by moving the horse in some way (eg join up) because the way a horse moves is very often linked to how he feels. Therefore, people think if they change how he moves they will automatically change how he feels. But this is not necessarily true – it might be, but not necessarily. But what is always true is if you change how he feels you will change how he moves.
I have been thinking a lot lately about why so many trainers place so much emphasis on controlling a horse’s feet as a means of controlling their minds.
If you look at the way many people use a round yard to get a horse to hook on or do “join up”, it’s by driving a horse around the yard. It seems most schools of training that try to get a horse to “join up” use the technique of moving a horse until he gives up. It’s as if by moving a horse’s feet they will want to be with the person.
Consider the message that many people took home from Ray Hunt’s clinics. Let’s look at a couple of Ray’’s most often quoted sayings
“… get the life in your body, through his mind and down to his feet.”
“… get the feet soft and they’ll be soft in the head.”
I have mentioned this before on the Horse Talk page under the topic Training Is Not Just About The Feet. Many people took these sayings to mean that if you could control the horse’s feet you can control his mind. I’ve heard Buck Brannaman say at a clinic “…it’s all about the feet.” Even Ray’s widow when asked what was Ray’s enduring message responded, “… it’s all about the feet.” So it is possible that with such esteemed people telling us “it’s about the feet”, that I could be wrong when I say I don’t think it is ALL about the feet. But you can read my piece on the Horse Talk page to discover why I have a different view.
What I want to mention here is how it has dawned on me why people believe the secret to controlling a horse’s mind is by controlling his feet. I feel kind of stupid about this because the answer if sort of obvious and one of those things we all know in the back of our minds, but was not fully formed in my conscious.
I believe the pacing is an expression of his anxiety. Being fed is so important to him that the idea of food arriving builds an anxiety inside of Guy. When either Michele or I appear with the bucket, his pacing quickens and he might even trot until we are actually at the gate. He knows to go and stand by his bucket and wait until the food is in his bucket and we have stepped away before eating. He is very polite about this, but his tension is obvious.
This is the part that I feel stupid to admit, but Guy made me realize that a horse’s emotions are expressed through his feet. When a horse is anxious, he moves his feet. Few horses will choose to stand still when worried unless they are so worried they freeze. The amount of anxiety is often reflected by the energy in their feet. When a horse is relaxed and feeling okay, they generally don’t choose to move a lot. Horses are by nature fairly lazy animals – like some Aussie horse trainers who shall remain nameless – so most need a reason to move.
When you see or ride a horse with more energy in his feet than necessary to get a job done, you can be pretty sure there is anxiety driving the feet.
This revelation finally explains in my mind why then people get so fixated about using the feet to tap into a horse’s mind and emotions. It’s hard to separate a horse’s emotions from what he is doing. And it is hard to influence a horse’s emotions. But in comparison it is fairly easy to influence what a horse is doing. We can direct him to move much easier than we can change the way he feels without him moving (without using pharmaceuticals). This being the case, it is easy to see why driving or directing the feet of a horse is a commonly recommended way of getting a change in the way a horse feels. And it is does work if done properly.
I’m not knocking moving the feet as a way of tapping into a horse’s emotions. I do it myself all the time. But where I think the message has gone wrong is that “moving the feet” has been sold as the answer to people’s problems. But in my view the answer lies in “changing how he feels” with or without moving the feet. Moving the feet in itself serves no useful purpose other than to exercise a horse. You can direct the feet without getting a change in how he feels – most people do. However, if you move the feet and get a change inside your horse then you have made progress. But it is not necessary to always move a horse in order to change how he feels either.
I guess what I am saying is that the important thing is to evoke a change in how your horse feels. Most people try to do this by moving the horse in some way (eg join up) because the way a horse moves is very often linked to how he feels. Therefore, people think if they change how he moves they will automatically change how he feels. But this is not necessarily true – it might be, but not necessarily. But what is always true is if you change how he feels you will change how he moves.
Scared Of Cows
Hi Ross,
You won't remember me, but my wife, daughter and I used to come along to your demonstrations at Sherbrooke some years ago. I didn't have her horse then, but my wife was a keen HRCAV rider and even though I came to keep her company, I really enjoyed your presentations and I think what you said then has some relevance now.
About eighteen months ago, I decided to give this horse thing a try, and set out to find a horse for myself to ride with my wife and some good friends who like to trail ride. I'm 56, and not as bouncy as I used to be when I was a kid, so I was after a steady old friend. Well, I am happy to say I have actually found the nearly perfect horse. Jock is sixteen and I bought him after a month's trial from a family who was looking for another horse for their daughter. He used to race, but he's been off the track for about ten years and in that time has been used for competition, pony club, trail riding and some very amateur polocrosse.
Jock has not put a foot wrong for this amateur since I had the fortune to bring him home except for one thing, and I would like your opinion on what to do. He is terrified of cows. When I have had the misfortune to come across some cows in a paddock beside a trail we're riding, we back up at 100 k's and hour, spin spectacularly, and if I'm lucky, the two of us have a fairly interesting ride for about 500 metres. This has only happened about five times now, but I've only accompanied Jock twice when he leaves the scene. He's actually not that fast, so I decided to dismount the other three times.
It's not that enjoyable, but I can deal with the occasional cows we encounter. However, our friends have invited us up to a week riding our horses in the high country in July and I have been assured that cows are a regular part of the experience. Thinking about how this holiday might end up if I don't do something to help Jock deal with cows, I talked to my daughter who reads your web site regularly and I thought, ah-ha! So I suppose I am wondering if you might have some suggestions for an amateur to help a nearly perfect horse overcome his fears. I was thinking who we know who has some cows and there is a friend of a friend who might be able to help.
Looking forward to your response,
Karl
Thanks for you question Karl. It’s been a long time since I ran those demonstrations each month at Sherbrooke, so forgive me if your name is not familiar. But I’m sure I’d remember you and your family if I saw you.
From what you say I am guessing that your horse is just not experienced with cows, as opposed he has been ruined by somebody working with cows.
The answer most people might give you and the easiest one to execute is to send to him your friend that owns cows and leave him to live with them in the paddock for a while. This might work and after a month you could have a very quiet cow-broke horse. But you might also get back a nervous wreck of a horse or an injured horse that ran through a fence because a cow looked at him wrong on the first day. You have to use your best judgment to decide if this is a good option or not.
An alternative thought is to put a bit of cow training into your horse. You need a quiet mob of cows and at least one, but preferably two friends with nice quiet horses that are good around cows and have the time to help you.
You want cows that are quiet – they won’t stand up to a horse and they won’t run away from one. But they will move when pushed by a horse.
Ride close by with one of your friends – almost rubbing saddles. Allow the second rider and horse to be in front as you approach the cows. He can even go ahead a little to keep the cows moving forward and away from you. Use your friend’s horse to give your horse confidence. Only walk and even if the cows run, just walk. If you horse gets scared, slow up and let the cows get some distance from you. Circle your horse if you have to. After some travelling some distance tracking the cows, when you get a quiet moment turn your horse away and go somewhere else. Then after a little break bring him back and ride beside your friend’s horse again.
See how close you can get to the cows without your horse freezing up or running off. If you feel your horse getting pretty worried, ask your friend riding ahead to move the cows further on. It might take a little while before you feel your horse relaxing and able to close in on the cows.
Most horses take to tracking cows pretty quickly. Once they learn the cows will move away when they approach, they can become really brave.
Keep practicing the tracking quite a lot over several days. But add to it with taking your horse around the mob of cows. Again I recommend using your friend’s horse to help with confidence, but ride a wide arc around the cows and get in front. Make your arc is wide enough that your horse can go forward, but not so wide that he is not dealing with the presence of the cows. If a cow approaches your horse, you may have to ride away or circle wider. Use your friend to move the cow back again. Over time you’ll be able to narrow the distance between you and the cows.
It won’t be long before you horse will feel he move the cows and you won’t need your friend’s companion horse. But remember not to put your horse in a situation that is scarier than he can handle. Push his comfort limits, but be careful not to tip him over the edge. You also need to practice moving the cows and circling them quite a lot. Doing it once or twice is not going to make permanent changes for your horse. If he is afraid of cows, that fear will come back if you don’t work hard at keeping it quelled.
Good luck.
Hi Ross,
You won't remember me, but my wife, daughter and I used to come along to your demonstrations at Sherbrooke some years ago. I didn't have her horse then, but my wife was a keen HRCAV rider and even though I came to keep her company, I really enjoyed your presentations and I think what you said then has some relevance now.
About eighteen months ago, I decided to give this horse thing a try, and set out to find a horse for myself to ride with my wife and some good friends who like to trail ride. I'm 56, and not as bouncy as I used to be when I was a kid, so I was after a steady old friend. Well, I am happy to say I have actually found the nearly perfect horse. Jock is sixteen and I bought him after a month's trial from a family who was looking for another horse for their daughter. He used to race, but he's been off the track for about ten years and in that time has been used for competition, pony club, trail riding and some very amateur polocrosse.
Jock has not put a foot wrong for this amateur since I had the fortune to bring him home except for one thing, and I would like your opinion on what to do. He is terrified of cows. When I have had the misfortune to come across some cows in a paddock beside a trail we're riding, we back up at 100 k's and hour, spin spectacularly, and if I'm lucky, the two of us have a fairly interesting ride for about 500 metres. This has only happened about five times now, but I've only accompanied Jock twice when he leaves the scene. He's actually not that fast, so I decided to dismount the other three times.
It's not that enjoyable, but I can deal with the occasional cows we encounter. However, our friends have invited us up to a week riding our horses in the high country in July and I have been assured that cows are a regular part of the experience. Thinking about how this holiday might end up if I don't do something to help Jock deal with cows, I talked to my daughter who reads your web site regularly and I thought, ah-ha! So I suppose I am wondering if you might have some suggestions for an amateur to help a nearly perfect horse overcome his fears. I was thinking who we know who has some cows and there is a friend of a friend who might be able to help.
Looking forward to your response,
Karl
Thanks for you question Karl. It’s been a long time since I ran those demonstrations each month at Sherbrooke, so forgive me if your name is not familiar. But I’m sure I’d remember you and your family if I saw you.
From what you say I am guessing that your horse is just not experienced with cows, as opposed he has been ruined by somebody working with cows.
The answer most people might give you and the easiest one to execute is to send to him your friend that owns cows and leave him to live with them in the paddock for a while. This might work and after a month you could have a very quiet cow-broke horse. But you might also get back a nervous wreck of a horse or an injured horse that ran through a fence because a cow looked at him wrong on the first day. You have to use your best judgment to decide if this is a good option or not.
An alternative thought is to put a bit of cow training into your horse. You need a quiet mob of cows and at least one, but preferably two friends with nice quiet horses that are good around cows and have the time to help you.
You want cows that are quiet – they won’t stand up to a horse and they won’t run away from one. But they will move when pushed by a horse.
Ride close by with one of your friends – almost rubbing saddles. Allow the second rider and horse to be in front as you approach the cows. He can even go ahead a little to keep the cows moving forward and away from you. Use your friend’s horse to give your horse confidence. Only walk and even if the cows run, just walk. If you horse gets scared, slow up and let the cows get some distance from you. Circle your horse if you have to. After some travelling some distance tracking the cows, when you get a quiet moment turn your horse away and go somewhere else. Then after a little break bring him back and ride beside your friend’s horse again.
See how close you can get to the cows without your horse freezing up or running off. If you feel your horse getting pretty worried, ask your friend riding ahead to move the cows further on. It might take a little while before you feel your horse relaxing and able to close in on the cows.
Most horses take to tracking cows pretty quickly. Once they learn the cows will move away when they approach, they can become really brave.
Keep practicing the tracking quite a lot over several days. But add to it with taking your horse around the mob of cows. Again I recommend using your friend’s horse to help with confidence, but ride a wide arc around the cows and get in front. Make your arc is wide enough that your horse can go forward, but not so wide that he is not dealing with the presence of the cows. If a cow approaches your horse, you may have to ride away or circle wider. Use your friend to move the cow back again. Over time you’ll be able to narrow the distance between you and the cows.
It won’t be long before you horse will feel he move the cows and you won’t need your friend’s companion horse. But remember not to put your horse in a situation that is scarier than he can handle. Push his comfort limits, but be careful not to tip him over the edge. You also need to practice moving the cows and circling them quite a lot. Doing it once or twice is not going to make permanent changes for your horse. If he is afraid of cows, that fear will come back if you don’t work hard at keeping it quelled.
Good luck.
Make vs Ask
I was discussing last time about the how the words we use to describe our horses or their behaviour can have an impact on our attitude to dealing with them.
I mentioned the use of the word “make” versus “ask”. In a discussion on a horse forum I mentioned that there is a big difference between getting strong with a horse to make him do something as opposed to getting strong to get his attention so that you can then softly ask him to do something.
One of the contributors asked a good question in relation to this subject. She used the example of kicking a horse to get him to go forward.
Question: It seems ok to apply as much force as you want in order to 'change a horse's mind'!? ...and that's not counted as 'making' him do something!? why? A kick in the guts feels like a kick in the guts even if you are telling the horse it's just to change your mind!?
This was my response
Answer: The need to use strong pressure with a horse when necessary is part and parcel of choosing to train them. It's unavoidable. You can not train a horse without motivating him to change. That means trying to convince him that what he is doing is not in his best interest. This without doubt requires evoking some level of anxiety in a horse in order for him to have a change of thought about what he perceives is in his best interest. If that is not acceptable, I can't understand how you can train or ride horses. But nevertheless, putting a horse under pressure and even causing him anxiety is not a problem for a horse. They live with anxiety every day whether we are the cause or another horse or a strange event etc. It is the nature of horses to bounce from anxiety (sometimes high anxiety) to quiet calm and back again throughout their day. I suspect that's why they can live in the moment and not dwell over past trouble like humans do. It they remained anxious due to something that happened an hour ago, they would never have quiet moments because the next anxious moment is waiting around the corner constantly. Secondly, if a strong pressure like a solid kick was what was needed to gain a horse's attention then it means a soft kick didn't bother the horse, a mild kick didn't either and moderately firm kick also caused him no worry. It wasn't until he felt a strong kick was there enough pressure for him to take some notice. You've heard the expression "do as little as you can, but as much as you have to." Well, sometimes as much as you have to is everything we have, but to a horse it was just enough for him to give us a second thought. So I believe your assumption that a solid kick in the guts is automatically something that will traumatize a horse or cause him great concern is wrong. It might on a horse that was ready to pay attention with a light nudge of your calf, but probably won't bother too much a horse that was very dead to the leg or totally spaced out with something else.
Thirdly, the concept of being firm with a horse to get his attention is only about getting his attention. If you do cause a horse a worry when you get firm, the job becomes helping the horse to understand what it was about. Once you get his attention give him a job - direct his thought. If you can direct his thought the worry WILL dissipate. It will go away because when he has the thought, he wants to carry it out with his feet. Allowing him to carry out the thought will give him comfort because it is his thought to do it and not us making him move his feet- we get out of the way and let it happen. But when you try to make a horse move his feet when his thought is to not move or to move somewhere else, you maintain the worry in him because his thought is to do something else but he is being made to do what we want him to do. That's where you get resistance. So you might get firm to say to the horse "hey, I'm here listen - pay attention." When he gives you his attention you can then pick up your left rein and say "can you look over to the left?" When he looks to his left and you ask for a little life in his body and he takes his feet to the left with no worry and no resistance because that was where he was thinking. Remember a horse is always trying to get his feet to go where he is thinking. The result is that the anxiety you might have added when you got firm disappears because he is now able to carry out his own thought - which was to go left. If you don't get his attention and he is trying to go turn right because that's where he is thinking, then getting strong with the aids to try to make him go to the left will only increase the anxiety because you are separating the horse's thought from his feet. This causes horses deep anxiety. I know I have given very simple examples, but I hope it clears up some things for you.
I feel the subject of when and why to use strong pressure with a horse is a difficult one for most of us to understand. Sometimes the line between blocking a horse’s idea and making him do something can be blurred. I think for most people the concept of directing a horse’s thought and blocking a thought do not come easily. It seems out nature is to make things happen our way. I grew up in a family that believed that if you talked louder than the other person you won the argument. I think many of us try to same strategy when we have a disagreement with our horses – the one who gets the biggest wins. Unfortunately, this strategy interferes with the chance of having a good relationship with a horse and hinders to the ability of a horse to give his best.
I was discussing last time about the how the words we use to describe our horses or their behaviour can have an impact on our attitude to dealing with them.
I mentioned the use of the word “make” versus “ask”. In a discussion on a horse forum I mentioned that there is a big difference between getting strong with a horse to make him do something as opposed to getting strong to get his attention so that you can then softly ask him to do something.
One of the contributors asked a good question in relation to this subject. She used the example of kicking a horse to get him to go forward.
Question: It seems ok to apply as much force as you want in order to 'change a horse's mind'!? ...and that's not counted as 'making' him do something!? why? A kick in the guts feels like a kick in the guts even if you are telling the horse it's just to change your mind!?
This was my response
Answer: The need to use strong pressure with a horse when necessary is part and parcel of choosing to train them. It's unavoidable. You can not train a horse without motivating him to change. That means trying to convince him that what he is doing is not in his best interest. This without doubt requires evoking some level of anxiety in a horse in order for him to have a change of thought about what he perceives is in his best interest. If that is not acceptable, I can't understand how you can train or ride horses. But nevertheless, putting a horse under pressure and even causing him anxiety is not a problem for a horse. They live with anxiety every day whether we are the cause or another horse or a strange event etc. It is the nature of horses to bounce from anxiety (sometimes high anxiety) to quiet calm and back again throughout their day. I suspect that's why they can live in the moment and not dwell over past trouble like humans do. It they remained anxious due to something that happened an hour ago, they would never have quiet moments because the next anxious moment is waiting around the corner constantly. Secondly, if a strong pressure like a solid kick was what was needed to gain a horse's attention then it means a soft kick didn't bother the horse, a mild kick didn't either and moderately firm kick also caused him no worry. It wasn't until he felt a strong kick was there enough pressure for him to take some notice. You've heard the expression "do as little as you can, but as much as you have to." Well, sometimes as much as you have to is everything we have, but to a horse it was just enough for him to give us a second thought. So I believe your assumption that a solid kick in the guts is automatically something that will traumatize a horse or cause him great concern is wrong. It might on a horse that was ready to pay attention with a light nudge of your calf, but probably won't bother too much a horse that was very dead to the leg or totally spaced out with something else.
Thirdly, the concept of being firm with a horse to get his attention is only about getting his attention. If you do cause a horse a worry when you get firm, the job becomes helping the horse to understand what it was about. Once you get his attention give him a job - direct his thought. If you can direct his thought the worry WILL dissipate. It will go away because when he has the thought, he wants to carry it out with his feet. Allowing him to carry out the thought will give him comfort because it is his thought to do it and not us making him move his feet- we get out of the way and let it happen. But when you try to make a horse move his feet when his thought is to not move or to move somewhere else, you maintain the worry in him because his thought is to do something else but he is being made to do what we want him to do. That's where you get resistance. So you might get firm to say to the horse "hey, I'm here listen - pay attention." When he gives you his attention you can then pick up your left rein and say "can you look over to the left?" When he looks to his left and you ask for a little life in his body and he takes his feet to the left with no worry and no resistance because that was where he was thinking. Remember a horse is always trying to get his feet to go where he is thinking. The result is that the anxiety you might have added when you got firm disappears because he is now able to carry out his own thought - which was to go left. If you don't get his attention and he is trying to go turn right because that's where he is thinking, then getting strong with the aids to try to make him go to the left will only increase the anxiety because you are separating the horse's thought from his feet. This causes horses deep anxiety. I know I have given very simple examples, but I hope it clears up some things for you.
I feel the subject of when and why to use strong pressure with a horse is a difficult one for most of us to understand. Sometimes the line between blocking a horse’s idea and making him do something can be blurred. I think for most people the concept of directing a horse’s thought and blocking a thought do not come easily. It seems out nature is to make things happen our way. I grew up in a family that believed that if you talked louder than the other person you won the argument. I think many of us try to same strategy when we have a disagreement with our horses – the one who gets the biggest wins. Unfortunately, this strategy interferes with the chance of having a good relationship with a horse and hinders to the ability of a horse to give his best.
Scared OF Things Around His Hind End
Dear Ross-First of all I want you to know you have a fan in the US! I really enjoy reading your blog and I get a lot out of so much of what you have to say. If only I could apply it in a better way to my horsemanship. But I guess it takes time.
I'm writing to ask about a problem I'm having with a five year old mustang gelding I bought and recently had broken in. He was pretty unhandled from what I could learn. I know the woman I bought him from had a few issues but she was getting older and said she didn't want the challenge of younger horses anymore. I think he was a little too much for her, but he is pretty quiet and friendly. Not very pushy but he likes a good scratch.
The problem is with his hind end. It first cropped up when I first got him and was trying to trim him, and he would get very defensive about picking up his feet or letting me hold them. I worked through this with a small stick rubbing him softly down the leg and eventually I could do this with my hand and finally pick them up without too much trouble. Sometimes it comes back, but we just go through the process. Thankfully, this is getting less and less frequent.
But the bigger issues have happened within the last two weeks. He's been back from the breaker about three weeks and I've had a few rides on him. I rode him there a few times too and we went on some trail rides and it went pretty well. Here at home we were mainly walking with a few trots and it went all right. Then I had a ride last Thursday in our round pen and I picked up the reins and asked him for a back up. He has a pretty long tail and I know he backed up onto his tail because I saw the piece he pulled out trailing along the ground. But that was after a very eventful ride! I think he got a fright when he stood on his tail and we wended up making a few laps of the pen with a few little bucks I was able to sit but then I got him shut down and got off. I just patted him and put him in the pasture after that. We both were a little shaken up.
So then on Sunday I saddled up and it all went ok. I've been doing some ground work and it was all right I thought. I got on in the pen again and went a few circles and figure 8's at a walk and then I asked for a trot and we went a few paces and he went up, I went off and I saw his hind feet flashing at me as I went. I didn't get hurt, but I was kind of shaky. After I hit the ground and got up he was still going a few laps kicking out behind and finally for stopped and just turned around and walked up to me and took a big breath. So did I.
I don't know what to do. I called the breaker, but he's actually on vacation until May and I feel like I've messed up this really great little horse. I'm thinking there is something that bothers him about his hind end but I don't know how to go on this and to be honest, I don't know that the guy who started him will be able to help since he's more about the basics.
Can you offer any advice? I would be really grateful for anything to try.
Thank you and thank you also for your great web site!
Alicia in Kearney, Nebraska
Thanks Alicia for you kind words about the web site.
From your description, I think there is a good chance that you are correct when you say your horse is worried about things around his rear end or behind him. It’s a common enough issue for me to have seen many horses like that.
The first thing I would do is trim a few inches of your horse’s tail. This could keep you safe in the short term when you ask him to back up.
I can’t say why he bucked on the Sunday ride after you began to trot. But he clearly is a sensitive horse and it would be good for you to learn to feel when he was thinking about bucking and then how to shut him down with a hindquarter yield or two. If you find he does it again, it might be a good idea to send me a video of you working your horse. I may be able to see what leads to his tantrum and offer some tips on how to avoid the trouble. Is he reluctant to work forward from the leg? Did you use spurs, whip etc? How much rein did you have? Before you asked him to trot was he calm, tense, relaxed, tight, playing with the bit, looking around, checked out etc. These are questions you need to think about to answer the question as to why he bucked.
But having said all that, there are hints that your horse might be what I call a reactive kicker. By that I mean he kicks out at things almost automatically when he gets worried – especially by things that either touch his rear end or are behind him.
Just a week ago I was talking to Warwick Schiller about dealing with a horse that is a reactive kicker. So it’s funny that I should get your query today.
The fact that he kicked when he stepped on his tail and kicked when he bucked you off and kicked when you picked up his feet, are strong indicators that he kicks when worried.
There are lots of things you can do to help him overcome this problem. You can start by getting him okay with being touched all around the back half of his body including lifting and stroking his tail, ropes touching his back legs, plastic bags touching his back legs, flanks and rump. Work at having him comfortable with people approaching him from behind on either side. At first you might have them walk slowly towards him, but eventually you’d like that somebody could run up behind him and pull his tail and he wouldn’t have an anxious moment. You could even have 2 people run at him simultaneous from either side (it’s best to use somebody you don’t like so it won’t matter if you get them killed). Make sure you can walk behind your horse going from left to right and right to left. Some horses get very concerned when a person appears on one side, goes behind into a blind spot where the person disappears from sight and then suddenly appear on the opposite side. This is called changing eyes and it is very important that all horses are comfortable with objects changing from their left eye to their right eye (and visa versa) from behind them.
You can follow this type of work up with having him relaxed with ropes and tarpaulins touching his rear and hind legs and even have them thrown over him. You would start this work with encouraging him to standstill. But eventually you’d like him equally comfortable with the ropes and tarp even if he was trotting and catering.
A very useful technique that I have had good success with reactive kickers is to rope their hind legs. I’m going to refer you to a video that Warwick recently loaded onto YouTube. It covers the concept of what I am talking about. The big thing I would do differently with your horse is to ensure he was haltered and I had the lead rope in one hand so he would walk in a circle around me. If he panicked when I put a feel in the rope attached to his hind leg, I would use the lead rope to shut him down and start all over again.
Dear Ross-First of all I want you to know you have a fan in the US! I really enjoy reading your blog and I get a lot out of so much of what you have to say. If only I could apply it in a better way to my horsemanship. But I guess it takes time.
I'm writing to ask about a problem I'm having with a five year old mustang gelding I bought and recently had broken in. He was pretty unhandled from what I could learn. I know the woman I bought him from had a few issues but she was getting older and said she didn't want the challenge of younger horses anymore. I think he was a little too much for her, but he is pretty quiet and friendly. Not very pushy but he likes a good scratch.
The problem is with his hind end. It first cropped up when I first got him and was trying to trim him, and he would get very defensive about picking up his feet or letting me hold them. I worked through this with a small stick rubbing him softly down the leg and eventually I could do this with my hand and finally pick them up without too much trouble. Sometimes it comes back, but we just go through the process. Thankfully, this is getting less and less frequent.
But the bigger issues have happened within the last two weeks. He's been back from the breaker about three weeks and I've had a few rides on him. I rode him there a few times too and we went on some trail rides and it went pretty well. Here at home we were mainly walking with a few trots and it went all right. Then I had a ride last Thursday in our round pen and I picked up the reins and asked him for a back up. He has a pretty long tail and I know he backed up onto his tail because I saw the piece he pulled out trailing along the ground. But that was after a very eventful ride! I think he got a fright when he stood on his tail and we wended up making a few laps of the pen with a few little bucks I was able to sit but then I got him shut down and got off. I just patted him and put him in the pasture after that. We both were a little shaken up.
So then on Sunday I saddled up and it all went ok. I've been doing some ground work and it was all right I thought. I got on in the pen again and went a few circles and figure 8's at a walk and then I asked for a trot and we went a few paces and he went up, I went off and I saw his hind feet flashing at me as I went. I didn't get hurt, but I was kind of shaky. After I hit the ground and got up he was still going a few laps kicking out behind and finally for stopped and just turned around and walked up to me and took a big breath. So did I.
I don't know what to do. I called the breaker, but he's actually on vacation until May and I feel like I've messed up this really great little horse. I'm thinking there is something that bothers him about his hind end but I don't know how to go on this and to be honest, I don't know that the guy who started him will be able to help since he's more about the basics.
Can you offer any advice? I would be really grateful for anything to try.
Thank you and thank you also for your great web site!
Alicia in Kearney, Nebraska
Thanks Alicia for you kind words about the web site.
From your description, I think there is a good chance that you are correct when you say your horse is worried about things around his rear end or behind him. It’s a common enough issue for me to have seen many horses like that.
The first thing I would do is trim a few inches of your horse’s tail. This could keep you safe in the short term when you ask him to back up.
I can’t say why he bucked on the Sunday ride after you began to trot. But he clearly is a sensitive horse and it would be good for you to learn to feel when he was thinking about bucking and then how to shut him down with a hindquarter yield or two. If you find he does it again, it might be a good idea to send me a video of you working your horse. I may be able to see what leads to his tantrum and offer some tips on how to avoid the trouble. Is he reluctant to work forward from the leg? Did you use spurs, whip etc? How much rein did you have? Before you asked him to trot was he calm, tense, relaxed, tight, playing with the bit, looking around, checked out etc. These are questions you need to think about to answer the question as to why he bucked.
But having said all that, there are hints that your horse might be what I call a reactive kicker. By that I mean he kicks out at things almost automatically when he gets worried – especially by things that either touch his rear end or are behind him.
Just a week ago I was talking to Warwick Schiller about dealing with a horse that is a reactive kicker. So it’s funny that I should get your query today.
The fact that he kicked when he stepped on his tail and kicked when he bucked you off and kicked when you picked up his feet, are strong indicators that he kicks when worried.
There are lots of things you can do to help him overcome this problem. You can start by getting him okay with being touched all around the back half of his body including lifting and stroking his tail, ropes touching his back legs, plastic bags touching his back legs, flanks and rump. Work at having him comfortable with people approaching him from behind on either side. At first you might have them walk slowly towards him, but eventually you’d like that somebody could run up behind him and pull his tail and he wouldn’t have an anxious moment. You could even have 2 people run at him simultaneous from either side (it’s best to use somebody you don’t like so it won’t matter if you get them killed). Make sure you can walk behind your horse going from left to right and right to left. Some horses get very concerned when a person appears on one side, goes behind into a blind spot where the person disappears from sight and then suddenly appear on the opposite side. This is called changing eyes and it is very important that all horses are comfortable with objects changing from their left eye to their right eye (and visa versa) from behind them.
You can follow this type of work up with having him relaxed with ropes and tarpaulins touching his rear and hind legs and even have them thrown over him. You would start this work with encouraging him to standstill. But eventually you’d like him equally comfortable with the ropes and tarp even if he was trotting and catering.
A very useful technique that I have had good success with reactive kickers is to rope their hind legs. I’m going to refer you to a video that Warwick recently loaded onto YouTube. It covers the concept of what I am talking about. The big thing I would do differently with your horse is to ensure he was haltered and I had the lead rope in one hand so he would walk in a circle around me. If he panicked when I put a feel in the rope attached to his hind leg, I would use the lead rope to shut him down and start all over again.
But roping a back leg is not for the inexperienced. If you don’t know how to do it and don’t have someone to guide you through the process, I would probably suggest you get professional help. It’s best to learn how to do it on a quiet horse that already knows how to yield to a leg rope. I’m pretty sure your horse will get very scared to begin with and I fear your lack of experience might get you and your horse into more trouble.
However, although roping a back leg can be helpful it is not necessary in sorting out your problem.
One other thing I would do which again you might need professional help doing is to get your horse to carry a rope around his hind end. This entails having a loop of rope over the horse’s back and dropping down over the tail and down the back legs – either above or below the hocks. It’s like you’ve thrown a lasso around his bum, but it hangs loosely down the legs. Again you should have a halter on your horse and the lead rope in your hand so you can influence his flight if it becomes panicked.
Swing the loop over his bum and let him walk around you with it. If he runs, allow him to run but use the lead rope to encourage (not make) him to slow down to a walk. When he relaxes, remove the rope and try again and again until he is okay with the loop being swung over his rear and touching his back legs. Next do the same thing at a trot.
When all this is looking fine with no sign of worry from your horse, put a feel in the loop as your horse walks around you so that he feels a pressure from the loop on his tail and/or legs. You want to lift the loop so that can feel it pushing against him. If he kicks or runs, keep holding until he makes a small change for the better. Remember to use your lead rope if he panics. Again, when everything is fine at a walk repeat the exercise at a trot.
The final thing I would do is to teach him to back into the loop around his hindquarters. That is, when I lifted the loop to apply pressure from the rope, your horse would back into it rather than walk forward away from it. But this is not something you have to do. It’s just something that I would do because I know it has some advantages.
I know I’ve given you a lot to think about. I hope I haven’t confused you. If you have more questions, don’t hesitate to write again. And if you want to send a video clip for me to assess, I’d be happy to do so.
Remember to stay safe and trim your horse’s tail. If you have doubts about doing any of the things I have suggested, get a good professional person to assist you.
Good luck.
Words
I have been in a recent discussion regarding training where people use particular words to convey an approach to training or a view point about horses, but other people consider that the words they choose to be a discussion about semantics rather than about training as it actually is.
Let me explain. It began with somebody asking if his or her horse was disobedient when he did something. The word “disobedient” led to a whole discussion that revolved around the accuracy or suitability of such a word when describing horses. This led to more words like disrespect, make, ask, direct, tell, guide etc being brought into the discussion.
On one side of the debate were people who felt that in reality there was no difference between making a horse do something and asking him to do something. In their eyes the difference was purely semantics and the whole discussion was just playing games with words. This group argued that words have a dictionary definition and anything else is just people putting hidden meaning into them that don’t really exist in real life.
On the opposite side of the discussion were people who believe the words you use are important and reflect your attitude towards horses and training. These people argued that you cannot separate the implied meanings of a word from the way it is used.
I’m not an expert on words and their usage or meaning, so my thoughts on this are not authoritative. However, I do believe words are important. I think we choose the words we use not only because of their definition, but also because of the feeling they convey in the message. Whole industries of political speak, management speak and the like have developed around this notion that the words we choose are important. Michele is doing a night course on teaching and they use language that is so foreign to me I can’t understand it at all. For example, rather than refer to somebody as a teacher, they call him or her a knowledge facilitator. This is done to deliberately convey a neutral feeling about the teacher.
But back to the horses. I feel to describe a horse as being disobedient or disrespectful or naughty or bullish gives a very different feeling about a horse than to say he is confused, worried, poorly educated, insecure etc. If I tell you to go into a yard and work a horse that is disobedient, you will naturally approach that horse with a different feel in your heart than if I said he was confused and didn’t know how to respond.
In the human world words almost always have a colour; that is they colour our attitude to what they are describing. If we say a horse has a kind eye, we get a very different feel towards a horse than if we say he has a round eye. Or if I tell you to make your horse stand still, the feeling conveyed is quite different than if I tell you to ask him or help him to stand still. It may dramatically affect the way you go about teaching your horse to stand still.
So I don’t think the words people use should be dismissed out of hand as just being semantics. I think they are important. I think they convey our feelings and sometime our intentions. The language we use is too often tied closely with the emotions we feel. It’s difficult for humans to separate the way they phrase something from how they feel about something. When people describe a horse as disrespectful or disobedient, you know they are blaming the horse for any problem – whether they mean to or not, it’s how they feel inside. Similarly, when a person talks about making a horse stand still as opposed to asking him to standstill that person is revealing how they feel about the horse not standing still. It effects how they deal with the situation.
I think it is fairly easy to determine a person’s attitude towards training and horses if you listen to them for a while and pick up on their choice of words. Words can be very revealing.
I have been in a recent discussion regarding training where people use particular words to convey an approach to training or a view point about horses, but other people consider that the words they choose to be a discussion about semantics rather than about training as it actually is.
Let me explain. It began with somebody asking if his or her horse was disobedient when he did something. The word “disobedient” led to a whole discussion that revolved around the accuracy or suitability of such a word when describing horses. This led to more words like disrespect, make, ask, direct, tell, guide etc being brought into the discussion.
On the opposite side of the discussion were people who believe the words you use are important and reflect your attitude towards horses and training. These people argued that you cannot separate the implied meanings of a word from the way it is used.
I’m not an expert on words and their usage or meaning, so my thoughts on this are not authoritative. However, I do believe words are important. I think we choose the words we use not only because of their definition, but also because of the feeling they convey in the message. Whole industries of political speak, management speak and the like have developed around this notion that the words we choose are important. Michele is doing a night course on teaching and they use language that is so foreign to me I can’t understand it at all. For example, rather than refer to somebody as a teacher, they call him or her a knowledge facilitator. This is done to deliberately convey a neutral feeling about the teacher.
But back to the horses. I feel to describe a horse as being disobedient or disrespectful or naughty or bullish gives a very different feeling about a horse than to say he is confused, worried, poorly educated, insecure etc. If I tell you to go into a yard and work a horse that is disobedient, you will naturally approach that horse with a different feel in your heart than if I said he was confused and didn’t know how to respond.
In the human world words almost always have a colour; that is they colour our attitude to what they are describing. If we say a horse has a kind eye, we get a very different feel towards a horse than if we say he has a round eye. Or if I tell you to make your horse stand still, the feeling conveyed is quite different than if I tell you to ask him or help him to stand still. It may dramatically affect the way you go about teaching your horse to stand still.
So I don’t think the words people use should be dismissed out of hand as just being semantics. I think they are important. I think they convey our feelings and sometime our intentions. The language we use is too often tied closely with the emotions we feel. It’s difficult for humans to separate the way they phrase something from how they feel about something. When people describe a horse as disrespectful or disobedient, you know they are blaming the horse for any problem – whether they mean to or not, it’s how they feel inside. Similarly, when a person talks about making a horse stand still as opposed to asking him to standstill that person is revealing how they feel about the horse not standing still. It effects how they deal with the situation.
I think it is fairly easy to determine a person’s attitude towards training and horses if you listen to them for a while and pick up on their choice of words. Words can be very revealing.
This is an excerpt from a Newsletter that Shea Stewart wrote and gave her generous permission to copy to this page. I think it is an excellent article and worth giving some thought. Shea is a close friend, trainer and cranio-sacral therapist. She is presently working on a new web site and I’ll post a link when it is ready.
Primary vs. Secondary
some food for thought
Over the years, I have had many discussions with Harry Whitney about horse's primary and secondary thoughts while in a training setting. For instance, a horse can be focused on a job like working a cow, yet hear a noise and give that noise an ear flick. Or you may be working a horse at liberty in the round pen and the horse will be tuned in with your every step, eyes focused on where they are going, yet their ears might be moving around in different directions as they keep track of the world around them in their secondary thoughts. While out on a trail ride, a rider should have their horse's primary thought with them on the trail, or at least be able to call it back if the horse mentally leaves, with just a slight touch of the rein or a pat on the leg. One of the first times I consciously became aware of this was many years ago when I was riding a very nervous Peruvian Paso out in the desert in AZ. I decided to hunt for Fulgerites which are rocks made when lightning strikes the sand. About the 5th time I stopped and got off to pick up a rock, I noticed that I didn't have to do anything to stop the horse, and he started looking around on the ground with me. He stood when I mounted, he walked as if he were looking for rocks as well. We were both so focused on this that we lost the rest of the riders and neither one of us cared. I noticed he would give the other riders a slight ear flick, but his primary thought was completely on our job.
This is a concept that I have built my own horsemanship on for many years. It has been such a normal part of my horse handling that I really didn't put much conscious thought into it. This was just a way of being.. When I used to start horses for people, I would never get on them until they actually looked at me. Not through me like they do when they look at people as giant grocery bags, but really look at me when I call on their primary thought. I learned through the years that once this moment happened, it was a game changer in how the relationship progressed. We could work interactively instead of me feeling like I was pushing a body around. I focused on this even with seasoned saddle horses who came in for training. This was always the first thing I worked on with every horse who came in for training. That connection to their primary thought.
Over the past few years, my business has evolved more into equine Cranio-Sacral therapy, and teaching lessons. And not so much taking on training horses. So I have found myself trying to figure out how to connect with a horse who is not connected at all, in a very short amount of time. Before I treat a horse, I use the assessment portion to try and connect with them, to try and get the horse to put me in their primary thoughts. One of my first horses that I treated a few years ago who was not a horse in training with me, was this very large 17 hand ex-eventing horse. High-headed, spooking and bolting across the arena with every little leaf that blew, and barely gave me or his owner a slight ear flick. We were just barely in this horse's secondary thoughts. My trainer self wanted to start working with him to get some kind of communication going. My Cranio-Sacral self saw multiple old head traumas and wondered how he could think about anything with all of the compression in his head. So I stood there wondering how I could start treating him without getting trampled! About half-way through his session this horse really let down, turned and looked at me, sniffed my hands, and for the first time I felt like he had put me in his primary thought. This felt like the same connection that I look for when training a horse. So this really got me thinking. Once this horse started feeling some relief, he was physically able to let down and he wanted to be present with us. When I mentioned this to his owner, I realized that this concept of directing your horse's thoughts or being able to call their primary thought is not regularly thought about out there in the horse world.
More recently, I had booked a lesson first then Cranio-Sacral session after with an Arabian mare who was being used for pleasure trail riding. The owner had done all kinds of work with her on the ground and had been struggling with some things. It was interesting for me to watch her and her mare work. She could get this mare to go anywhere, do anything, trot behind her, walk behind her, go in a circle, stop, switch directions, back up, walk though things, over things, etc. But this horse had her head high, her back tight, and was looking about 100 yards across the farm the entire time. She was present enough to move her feet exactly where the woman asked, but she kept her thoughts as far away as possible. When she got on the mare's back, the mare mentally went away even further and followed up this inner turmoil with a huge kink in her body. Like trying to ride a snake.
So, naturally the thing I wanted to work on was to help this mare bring her primary thought back in the arena with the humans and feel good about doing so. These things tend to be more important to a quick-minded horse. They can be the easiest horses to handle when they understand their handling, and the most difficult to handle when they feel lost. So, all I did was try to lead her and help her stay present, or with her it was a matter of constantly trying to bring her mind back. After an hour and a half we had made it about 10 feet. We didn't get real far in distance, but the mare began to understand that I was talking to her, not just directing feet. She was more relaxed, head low, and staying mostly present when her feet would move, or at least not mentally leaving so far away. I was interested to see how it would go with the Cranio-Sacral session. She also had a huge indention in her head that made me wonder about the pressure she felt. Like the horse earlier, she did really let down as I treated her and relieved some pressure. But, even though she was physically let down and not feeling like a hummingbird on the end of a string, I could still see her having a tendency to only allow humans in her secondary thoughts. Especially with the person who developed their relationship that way. Fortunately, I believe the owner understood this concept that the feet will come a lot easier when the mind is there.
I hear riding instructors talk about disrespect, or disobedience, and I wonder if this is the depth of their knowledge of a horses mind. Is this their way of understanding when a horse is present or not? I think when a person uses these words they are anthropomorphising, as if a horse can understand a human's idea of what is right and what is wrong. For me I see horses as either mentally present or not, and all of the varying degrees of it. Then I wonder what is driving the horse to be mentally gone. What is driving a horse to have it's primary thought on everything but the human? Is there an emotional aspect? A physical one? Is it a training issue or a pain issue? Do they live a life with people who talk at them?
One thing that I have learned in this journey, is that this is THE MOST important aspect of my own horsemanship. And another thing I have learned is that it is not just a training issue, nor is it just a pain issue. Treating a horse can relieve pain to help them let down enough and focus so they are able to let a person in. But working with them in a way that is mutually communicative can also help a lot of physical issues melt away since the emotions drive muscle tension. I know of a horse who has horrible string halt in both hinds, and I saw this string halt almost completely go away when Harry worked her. It came back, but then it almost completely went away after I gave her a Cranio-Sacral session. This tells me that yes, there is a physical problem, BUT it is exacerbated when emotions are high which causes muscles to tighten and crookedness to set in. I did a trailer loading session with a horse who would not bring his primary thought inside the trailer, but once he did, he walked right in. But then he had a horrible time backing out and stepping down. You know when they end up with their hind feet balancing on the bumper not wanting to make that step out? He got to where he would do it, but it was with reluctance. I then gave him a treatment and it was obvious he was moving better. After I treated him, we did one more trailer loading and he backed out with ease and stepped down without missing a beat. He also seemed a lot more let down inside the trailer. That told me he was worried because physically he felt weak in his hind end. This is not to say that every horse who has trouble backing out has physical issues, but I certainly wouldn't rule that out. This particular horse had locking stifle issues that developed while he was with a trainer who rode him in a saddle that didn't fit. And an owner who only had been taught to drive him physically in without understanding how to help him bring his thoughts inside the trailer.
But the bottom line is, when you are out there with your horse, how easy is it to call on their primary thought in any given situation? Can you identify the drive behind their thought? Is there a physical block? Does something hurt? Is there an emotional block?
Just some food for thought! Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings...now go out and enjoy your horse!
Primary vs. Secondary
some food for thought
Over the years, I have had many discussions with Harry Whitney about horse's primary and secondary thoughts while in a training setting. For instance, a horse can be focused on a job like working a cow, yet hear a noise and give that noise an ear flick. Or you may be working a horse at liberty in the round pen and the horse will be tuned in with your every step, eyes focused on where they are going, yet their ears might be moving around in different directions as they keep track of the world around them in their secondary thoughts. While out on a trail ride, a rider should have their horse's primary thought with them on the trail, or at least be able to call it back if the horse mentally leaves, with just a slight touch of the rein or a pat on the leg. One of the first times I consciously became aware of this was many years ago when I was riding a very nervous Peruvian Paso out in the desert in AZ. I decided to hunt for Fulgerites which are rocks made when lightning strikes the sand. About the 5th time I stopped and got off to pick up a rock, I noticed that I didn't have to do anything to stop the horse, and he started looking around on the ground with me. He stood when I mounted, he walked as if he were looking for rocks as well. We were both so focused on this that we lost the rest of the riders and neither one of us cared. I noticed he would give the other riders a slight ear flick, but his primary thought was completely on our job.
This is a concept that I have built my own horsemanship on for many years. It has been such a normal part of my horse handling that I really didn't put much conscious thought into it. This was just a way of being.. When I used to start horses for people, I would never get on them until they actually looked at me. Not through me like they do when they look at people as giant grocery bags, but really look at me when I call on their primary thought. I learned through the years that once this moment happened, it was a game changer in how the relationship progressed. We could work interactively instead of me feeling like I was pushing a body around. I focused on this even with seasoned saddle horses who came in for training. This was always the first thing I worked on with every horse who came in for training. That connection to their primary thought.
Over the past few years, my business has evolved more into equine Cranio-Sacral therapy, and teaching lessons. And not so much taking on training horses. So I have found myself trying to figure out how to connect with a horse who is not connected at all, in a very short amount of time. Before I treat a horse, I use the assessment portion to try and connect with them, to try and get the horse to put me in their primary thoughts. One of my first horses that I treated a few years ago who was not a horse in training with me, was this very large 17 hand ex-eventing horse. High-headed, spooking and bolting across the arena with every little leaf that blew, and barely gave me or his owner a slight ear flick. We were just barely in this horse's secondary thoughts. My trainer self wanted to start working with him to get some kind of communication going. My Cranio-Sacral self saw multiple old head traumas and wondered how he could think about anything with all of the compression in his head. So I stood there wondering how I could start treating him without getting trampled! About half-way through his session this horse really let down, turned and looked at me, sniffed my hands, and for the first time I felt like he had put me in his primary thought. This felt like the same connection that I look for when training a horse. So this really got me thinking. Once this horse started feeling some relief, he was physically able to let down and he wanted to be present with us. When I mentioned this to his owner, I realized that this concept of directing your horse's thoughts or being able to call their primary thought is not regularly thought about out there in the horse world.
More recently, I had booked a lesson first then Cranio-Sacral session after with an Arabian mare who was being used for pleasure trail riding. The owner had done all kinds of work with her on the ground and had been struggling with some things. It was interesting for me to watch her and her mare work. She could get this mare to go anywhere, do anything, trot behind her, walk behind her, go in a circle, stop, switch directions, back up, walk though things, over things, etc. But this horse had her head high, her back tight, and was looking about 100 yards across the farm the entire time. She was present enough to move her feet exactly where the woman asked, but she kept her thoughts as far away as possible. When she got on the mare's back, the mare mentally went away even further and followed up this inner turmoil with a huge kink in her body. Like trying to ride a snake.
So, naturally the thing I wanted to work on was to help this mare bring her primary thought back in the arena with the humans and feel good about doing so. These things tend to be more important to a quick-minded horse. They can be the easiest horses to handle when they understand their handling, and the most difficult to handle when they feel lost. So, all I did was try to lead her and help her stay present, or with her it was a matter of constantly trying to bring her mind back. After an hour and a half we had made it about 10 feet. We didn't get real far in distance, but the mare began to understand that I was talking to her, not just directing feet. She was more relaxed, head low, and staying mostly present when her feet would move, or at least not mentally leaving so far away. I was interested to see how it would go with the Cranio-Sacral session. She also had a huge indention in her head that made me wonder about the pressure she felt. Like the horse earlier, she did really let down as I treated her and relieved some pressure. But, even though she was physically let down and not feeling like a hummingbird on the end of a string, I could still see her having a tendency to only allow humans in her secondary thoughts. Especially with the person who developed their relationship that way. Fortunately, I believe the owner understood this concept that the feet will come a lot easier when the mind is there.
I hear riding instructors talk about disrespect, or disobedience, and I wonder if this is the depth of their knowledge of a horses mind. Is this their way of understanding when a horse is present or not? I think when a person uses these words they are anthropomorphising, as if a horse can understand a human's idea of what is right and what is wrong. For me I see horses as either mentally present or not, and all of the varying degrees of it. Then I wonder what is driving the horse to be mentally gone. What is driving a horse to have it's primary thought on everything but the human? Is there an emotional aspect? A physical one? Is it a training issue or a pain issue? Do they live a life with people who talk at them?
One thing that I have learned in this journey, is that this is THE MOST important aspect of my own horsemanship. And another thing I have learned is that it is not just a training issue, nor is it just a pain issue. Treating a horse can relieve pain to help them let down enough and focus so they are able to let a person in. But working with them in a way that is mutually communicative can also help a lot of physical issues melt away since the emotions drive muscle tension. I know of a horse who has horrible string halt in both hinds, and I saw this string halt almost completely go away when Harry worked her. It came back, but then it almost completely went away after I gave her a Cranio-Sacral session. This tells me that yes, there is a physical problem, BUT it is exacerbated when emotions are high which causes muscles to tighten and crookedness to set in. I did a trailer loading session with a horse who would not bring his primary thought inside the trailer, but once he did, he walked right in. But then he had a horrible time backing out and stepping down. You know when they end up with their hind feet balancing on the bumper not wanting to make that step out? He got to where he would do it, but it was with reluctance. I then gave him a treatment and it was obvious he was moving better. After I treated him, we did one more trailer loading and he backed out with ease and stepped down without missing a beat. He also seemed a lot more let down inside the trailer. That told me he was worried because physically he felt weak in his hind end. This is not to say that every horse who has trouble backing out has physical issues, but I certainly wouldn't rule that out. This particular horse had locking stifle issues that developed while he was with a trainer who rode him in a saddle that didn't fit. And an owner who only had been taught to drive him physically in without understanding how to help him bring his thoughts inside the trailer.
But the bottom line is, when you are out there with your horse, how easy is it to call on their primary thought in any given situation? Can you identify the drive behind their thought? Is there a physical block? Does something hurt? Is there an emotional block?
Just some food for thought! Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings...now go out and enjoy your horse!
Horse Attacked By Sheep
Hi Ross,
I had a bit of an issue with Archie and would appreciate your thoughts on my options if it happens again (which it probably will knowing Archie).
Jackie and I were riding Spin and Archie around the track at the back of Beth’s property the other week. The track circles some paddocks with horses in them. As we passed the furthest point from the stable area I noticed the horses next door prick their ears and wander towards us. They were pretty calm so I just noticed but didn’t go looking for a reason. We got down to the area near the majority of the horses on the property when all hell broke loose.
One of the horses in the paddock in the middle of the track let go the loudest snorts I think I have heard. She (and the other horses out in the paddocks) were staring at something in the almond orchard next door. The horse closest to where Jackie & I were immediately picked up on this and proceeded to wind herself up and started bombing around her yard and snorting as well. Archie did his normal freeze and grew to about 18 hands. The problem was that none of the yarded horses, nor Archie or Spin could see what the paddock horses were looking at because of some trees and bushes in the way. I could see over Archie’s head that the cause as a lost sheep. I dismounted (I think that was pretty sensible) and tried to get Archie’s attention ...... well I had no hope because his head was probably 2 feet above my hands and I couldn’t be heard above the snorting of the horses. I would have needed to be Godzilla before I would have got more than a token of his attention.
The horse in the yard next to us was getting more upset by the moment and the closest horses to her were getting nearly as bad. I decided to pull Archie away from what he was trying to look at. My thought was to get him around the corner and up the track enough to see the sheep. Well he pretty much didn’t care where I was and I seriously close because I only had my bridle reins which are much too short for a horse his size BUUTTTT he didn’t rear which was a bonus. I knew once he saw what it was he would be fine, he isn’t scared of sheep. So I proceeded to take him the 300 meters or so to where he could get a look at the sheep (which was contemplating whether to cross the storm water drain or go back into the trees). Archie would walk (sort of ), stop, go back and I even managed a couple of things that could be called a circle, but he was pretty rigid. As I knew he would, once he figured out it was just a sheep he calmed down (outwardly).
I guess my concern is that I did nothing to convince him I could be trusted to keep him out of trouble by taking him closer to the danger, but I couldn’t really see an option as I couldn’t take him further away because every horse in the area was doing airs above the ground by this stage and he would have had to turn his back to the danger. Previously I have always just let him be a statue until he figures out for himself that there isn’t anything to worry about, but that also doesn’t progress his trust in my ability to keep him safe.
The only good thing that came out of the incident was that, in typical Archie form, he held onto his stress for some days, but this did give me a opportunity to do some ground work with a flag and I actually managed to use it to calm him down. It took a bit of time but in the end end I could just move it down near my foot and he would look and come off the boil when he started to get rushy in the trot or canter. I initially thought it was a fluke (or just a tired horse as I had worked on it for a while) but I have done it in a couple of other situations since (nothing like the sheep incident though) with a similar response, so I am pretty happy about that.
I would just appreciate your thoughts on what I should do/try if a similar situation arises or even just a similar level of stress. I see this as the next step in what I need to work on. It is probably one that I needed to work on a long time ago, but with the many issues he has, once I realised he wasn’t the turn and run type horse, I took the easy option of just letting him figure it out for himself and let him stand (being fairly short, I can tell you it isn’t fun trying to hold onto reins when he is rearing and you are under his front feet!). Also you can’t manufacture these types of incidences to get a handle on how to deal with them. I did say at Harry’s clinic though that recently I have been able to pull him away from things that attracted his attention without the rears and attitude at getting in the way of his thoughts, but that was over fairly mild distractions in comparison to “THE SHEEP INCIDENCE”.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to your response.
Debbie
From your description I think you probably did a good job under the circumstances.
The thing is that Archie was convinced that something the other horses were looking at and reacting too was important to his survival. We would do the same thing in similar circumstances. If we saw a mob of people suddenly looking off in the distance and start running and screaming as if to save their life, we would not be too interested in answering the person next to us who was asking if we had the time. We would be totally occupied in deciding if we should run too or not. This is the situation you had with Archie.
Now each horse is different as to the threshold of what triggers their worry. Some will panic when a bird flies out of a bush and others are okay if you tie firecrackers to their tail. I think the fact that Archie handled a life and death situation better than you would have expected in days past is something you should be rejoicing about. He is not an easy horse and can have a hair trigger, so I think he did really well.
But you ask how should you handle it next time. You do what you can to get his attention. Whether you are successful will depend on your skill and the level of importance Archie gives to the object of concern. But success can be counted as being just a smidge better than the last scary encounter. You are not going to get Archie or any horse to sacrifice what he believes he needs to do to stay alive just so he can be more attentive to you. If he believes he might die if he takes his eyes off the sheep, then you are not going to get him to pay attention to you over the sheep.
But let me say that when a horse gets worried, the anxiety takes the shape of a skewed bell curve. The first stage is when a horse is aware of a horse-eating sheep, his anxiety rises incredibly steeply (it almost looks like it was instantaneous). Then it levels out in a plateau and stays high for awhile - this is stage 2. The third stage is that the anxiety or fear starts to diminish (at a rate much slower that it rose) until the horse feels okay again. In most cases you cannot affect a change in the way the horse feels while the fear is rising - as in the first stage. So if Archie's fear has already been triggered there is nothing you can do about it until it peaks and plateaus. If you were able to interrupt him before it began to rise, you might be effective in keeping him under control. But if you miss that opportunity and his fear is already climbing rapidly, you might as well smile and pat him so all the world thinks he is doing exactly what you asked of him - 'cause you might just fool some of the people. When his worry has peaked this is the first opportunity for you to intervene and change his feelings by trying to direct him a little. But don't over-direct because if you tell him he can't look at the man-eating sheep or he can't move further away from it you might evoke even stronger survival instincts and he can become more out of control. However, as his worry is dissipating it becomes easier and easier to get a change.
So in principle, if you can tell there is trouble brewing before he panics, start directing him. If the panic button has been hit, leave him alone and do what is necessary to stay safe (like jumping off). Once the initial panic has peaked you can start trying to get him focused again.
The other big problem with Archie is that he is 17hh and you can't reach. Get a 13hh horse so when the head goes up you can still hold on from the ground!
I'm sorry I don't have a definitive "what to do" answer to your situation. I really think that I can't tell you what to do because it will most certainly D.E.P.E.N.D. But in all honesty I feel you did really well at the time and there is probably not much that I would do differently. I just don't think you can expect a horse to stay calm and controlled in the face of a near death situation - although more regular near death experiences might help.
Hi Ross,
I had a bit of an issue with Archie and would appreciate your thoughts on my options if it happens again (which it probably will knowing Archie).
Jackie and I were riding Spin and Archie around the track at the back of Beth’s property the other week. The track circles some paddocks with horses in them. As we passed the furthest point from the stable area I noticed the horses next door prick their ears and wander towards us. They were pretty calm so I just noticed but didn’t go looking for a reason. We got down to the area near the majority of the horses on the property when all hell broke loose.
The horse in the yard next to us was getting more upset by the moment and the closest horses to her were getting nearly as bad. I decided to pull Archie away from what he was trying to look at. My thought was to get him around the corner and up the track enough to see the sheep. Well he pretty much didn’t care where I was and I seriously close because I only had my bridle reins which are much too short for a horse his size BUUTTTT he didn’t rear which was a bonus. I knew once he saw what it was he would be fine, he isn’t scared of sheep. So I proceeded to take him the 300 meters or so to where he could get a look at the sheep (which was contemplating whether to cross the storm water drain or go back into the trees). Archie would walk (sort of ), stop, go back and I even managed a couple of things that could be called a circle, but he was pretty rigid. As I knew he would, once he figured out it was just a sheep he calmed down (outwardly).
I guess my concern is that I did nothing to convince him I could be trusted to keep him out of trouble by taking him closer to the danger, but I couldn’t really see an option as I couldn’t take him further away because every horse in the area was doing airs above the ground by this stage and he would have had to turn his back to the danger. Previously I have always just let him be a statue until he figures out for himself that there isn’t anything to worry about, but that also doesn’t progress his trust in my ability to keep him safe.
The only good thing that came out of the incident was that, in typical Archie form, he held onto his stress for some days, but this did give me a opportunity to do some ground work with a flag and I actually managed to use it to calm him down. It took a bit of time but in the end end I could just move it down near my foot and he would look and come off the boil when he started to get rushy in the trot or canter. I initially thought it was a fluke (or just a tired horse as I had worked on it for a while) but I have done it in a couple of other situations since (nothing like the sheep incident though) with a similar response, so I am pretty happy about that.
I would just appreciate your thoughts on what I should do/try if a similar situation arises or even just a similar level of stress. I see this as the next step in what I need to work on. It is probably one that I needed to work on a long time ago, but with the many issues he has, once I realised he wasn’t the turn and run type horse, I took the easy option of just letting him figure it out for himself and let him stand (being fairly short, I can tell you it isn’t fun trying to hold onto reins when he is rearing and you are under his front feet!). Also you can’t manufacture these types of incidences to get a handle on how to deal with them. I did say at Harry’s clinic though that recently I have been able to pull him away from things that attracted his attention without the rears and attitude at getting in the way of his thoughts, but that was over fairly mild distractions in comparison to “THE SHEEP INCIDENCE”.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to your response.
Debbie
From your description I think you probably did a good job under the circumstances.
The thing is that Archie was convinced that something the other horses were looking at and reacting too was important to his survival. We would do the same thing in similar circumstances. If we saw a mob of people suddenly looking off in the distance and start running and screaming as if to save their life, we would not be too interested in answering the person next to us who was asking if we had the time. We would be totally occupied in deciding if we should run too or not. This is the situation you had with Archie.
Now each horse is different as to the threshold of what triggers their worry. Some will panic when a bird flies out of a bush and others are okay if you tie firecrackers to their tail. I think the fact that Archie handled a life and death situation better than you would have expected in days past is something you should be rejoicing about. He is not an easy horse and can have a hair trigger, so I think he did really well.
But you ask how should you handle it next time. You do what you can to get his attention. Whether you are successful will depend on your skill and the level of importance Archie gives to the object of concern. But success can be counted as being just a smidge better than the last scary encounter. You are not going to get Archie or any horse to sacrifice what he believes he needs to do to stay alive just so he can be more attentive to you. If he believes he might die if he takes his eyes off the sheep, then you are not going to get him to pay attention to you over the sheep.
But let me say that when a horse gets worried, the anxiety takes the shape of a skewed bell curve. The first stage is when a horse is aware of a horse-eating sheep, his anxiety rises incredibly steeply (it almost looks like it was instantaneous). Then it levels out in a plateau and stays high for awhile - this is stage 2. The third stage is that the anxiety or fear starts to diminish (at a rate much slower that it rose) until the horse feels okay again. In most cases you cannot affect a change in the way the horse feels while the fear is rising - as in the first stage. So if Archie's fear has already been triggered there is nothing you can do about it until it peaks and plateaus. If you were able to interrupt him before it began to rise, you might be effective in keeping him under control. But if you miss that opportunity and his fear is already climbing rapidly, you might as well smile and pat him so all the world thinks he is doing exactly what you asked of him - 'cause you might just fool some of the people. When his worry has peaked this is the first opportunity for you to intervene and change his feelings by trying to direct him a little. But don't over-direct because if you tell him he can't look at the man-eating sheep or he can't move further away from it you might evoke even stronger survival instincts and he can become more out of control. However, as his worry is dissipating it becomes easier and easier to get a change.
So in principle, if you can tell there is trouble brewing before he panics, start directing him. If the panic button has been hit, leave him alone and do what is necessary to stay safe (like jumping off). Once the initial panic has peaked you can start trying to get him focused again.
The other big problem with Archie is that he is 17hh and you can't reach. Get a 13hh horse so when the head goes up you can still hold on from the ground!
I'm sorry I don't have a definitive "what to do" answer to your situation. I really think that I can't tell you what to do because it will most certainly D.E.P.E.N.D. But in all honesty I feel you did really well at the time and there is probably not much that I would do differently. I just don't think you can expect a horse to stay calm and controlled in the face of a near death situation - although more regular near death experiences might help.
April 16, 2012
Surviving Training
This is a subject I talk about from time to time at my clinics, but I don’t recall writing about it on this web site. At least a quick scan of the archives indicates I have not discussed the topic before. So for those who have heard this lecture before I apologise.
Life and death! That’s what horsemanship is to a horse.
We lovers of horses are pretty lucky. We get to choose our horses, we choose the amount of time we spend with our horses and how that time is spent with our horses. We pay our money to a stranger; go into a paddock to catch a horse, which we then load into a tin box on wheels. We drive to a new paddock, unload the horse and release him into a strange new environment. We watch him explore his new home while our heart is filled with the joy of our new acquisition. Meanwhile the object of our happiness is lost and bewildered that his life has just been turned upside down and wondering if he is going to die in the next few minutes. Everything he has known and felt safe about has changed. He is Alice in a terrifying Wonderland.
I think it is so easy for us to remain oblivious to what we put our horses through simply because they are not running wildly and showing the obvious signs of panic. The things that seem small and insignificant to us are often terribly important to our horses. This is because everything a horse does is in some way tied in to his sense of survival.
Our lives are made up of decisions that for the most part are choices about what we want. Do we go on holidays in August so we can go skiing or do we holiday in January to visit relatives? Do I want to sit on the couch or in the chair? Do I wear the blue sweater or the brown one? Do I send the kids to this school or that school? Do I order the fish or the beef?
This life of choosing what we want based largely on preferences is not something that horses get to experience very often when interacting with human. Their decisions on what to do are based almost exclusively on their perception of what offers the best chance of living through the experience. Survival is the most important motivating factor in any behaviour offered by a horse.
When a foal is haltered and asked to lead forward for the first time in his life his initial response will be to pull away and flee for his life. At the very least he will lean back against the pressure and at worst he will run back hard and he may even tip over backwards. This behaviour is nothing more than the foal realising that if he is going to live through this experience he had better fight and get away from the pressure, otherwise harm is only moments away. To us it may seem a silly response for him to fight the lead rope because we know that if he only took a step forward he would feel better. But it would be a mistake to under estimate what a terrible life threatening situation that little fellow feels he has been put in. In my mind it is no less threatening than if somebody pointed a loaded gun at me and demanded something that I couldn’t understand. I wouldn’t know what he wanted, but I knew I might die any second so I had better figure out something to get out of the predicament.
Horses face this dilemma every day when we handle them. Not too many older horses that have had a lot of handling react exactly like the foal when asked to lead. But those types of situations occur for each horse all the time. There are an infinite number of scenarios that evoke a strong sense of survival in a horse each day. Some are obvious like shying at a motorbike coming around the corner or bucking when he has a really sore back. Others situations are less obvious, but none the less real. For example, trouble controlling the horse’s speed, a hard mouth, float loading taking two minutes instead of two seconds, fidgeting when tied up, being distracted, crowding when he is being led or dragging when being led. The list goes on and on. All these behaviours are in some way strongly tied into a horse’s sense of his survival.
Why is it important to stay aware of this? Because awareness about what motivated his behaviour is a long way towards adapting the approach to training that does not evoke a strong ‘life or death’ type reaction from a horse.
We will always be asking our horses to do things that they feel are not in their best interest. But there is a difference between asking for something that they feel threatens their life and asking them to do things that are a bit hard. I believe the best we can hope for is that our horses learn to be ‘ok’ with what we want them to do. They may never learn to love work, but they can be ‘ok’. By that I mean it does not cause them trouble inside when asked to do something. For this to happen, you must develop a level of trust in your relationship with your horse. This takes a lot of time and a correct attitude to the training. It means avoiding as best you can putting your horse in situations where he feels he might die and always making sure he feels better afterwards than when he started.
Asking a horse or telling a horse to do something that he feels will kill him (eg, float loading or going over a pole etc.) tells him that you don’t care if he lives or dies. He learns to believe you have no interest in his survival and you can’t be trusted to look after his welfare. Even if he gets through it, the level of fear and anxiety he will experience will damage his trust and confidence in you for a long time. I think the traditional form of sacking or bagging a horse out is a good example of this. This is where a horse is tied to a big post with a big halter and a big lead rope and exposed to scary objects (like hosing or chaff bags with tins inside) until he stops fighting to get away.
This type of training is called ‘flooding’ and is does not take into account how the horse feels inside. With any type of flooding the horse has to go through a peak fear response before they give up and submit. But even after submission, feeling ok is not taken into account by flooding a horse. If you go back and look at the bridling video by John O’Leary that I posted on April 5, you’ll see an example of flooding a horse through his fear until he submits albeit reluctantly to being bridled.
Here is video of John Pinnell whom I mentioned last posting as one of the old-time horse trainers that I knew when I was a kid growing up in Sydney. Here John is using a flooding technique to teach a horse to be caught.
This is a subject I talk about from time to time at my clinics, but I don’t recall writing about it on this web site. At least a quick scan of the archives indicates I have not discussed the topic before. So for those who have heard this lecture before I apologise.
Life and death! That’s what horsemanship is to a horse.
We lovers of horses are pretty lucky. We get to choose our horses, we choose the amount of time we spend with our horses and how that time is spent with our horses. We pay our money to a stranger; go into a paddock to catch a horse, which we then load into a tin box on wheels. We drive to a new paddock, unload the horse and release him into a strange new environment. We watch him explore his new home while our heart is filled with the joy of our new acquisition. Meanwhile the object of our happiness is lost and bewildered that his life has just been turned upside down and wondering if he is going to die in the next few minutes. Everything he has known and felt safe about has changed. He is Alice in a terrifying Wonderland.
I think it is so easy for us to remain oblivious to what we put our horses through simply because they are not running wildly and showing the obvious signs of panic. The things that seem small and insignificant to us are often terribly important to our horses. This is because everything a horse does is in some way tied in to his sense of survival.
Our lives are made up of decisions that for the most part are choices about what we want. Do we go on holidays in August so we can go skiing or do we holiday in January to visit relatives? Do I want to sit on the couch or in the chair? Do I wear the blue sweater or the brown one? Do I send the kids to this school or that school? Do I order the fish or the beef?
This life of choosing what we want based largely on preferences is not something that horses get to experience very often when interacting with human. Their decisions on what to do are based almost exclusively on their perception of what offers the best chance of living through the experience. Survival is the most important motivating factor in any behaviour offered by a horse.
Horses face this dilemma every day when we handle them. Not too many older horses that have had a lot of handling react exactly like the foal when asked to lead. But those types of situations occur for each horse all the time. There are an infinite number of scenarios that evoke a strong sense of survival in a horse each day. Some are obvious like shying at a motorbike coming around the corner or bucking when he has a really sore back. Others situations are less obvious, but none the less real. For example, trouble controlling the horse’s speed, a hard mouth, float loading taking two minutes instead of two seconds, fidgeting when tied up, being distracted, crowding when he is being led or dragging when being led. The list goes on and on. All these behaviours are in some way strongly tied into a horse’s sense of his survival.
Why is it important to stay aware of this? Because awareness about what motivated his behaviour is a long way towards adapting the approach to training that does not evoke a strong ‘life or death’ type reaction from a horse.
Asking a horse or telling a horse to do something that he feels will kill him (eg, float loading or going over a pole etc.) tells him that you don’t care if he lives or dies. He learns to believe you have no interest in his survival and you can’t be trusted to look after his welfare. Even if he gets through it, the level of fear and anxiety he will experience will damage his trust and confidence in you for a long time. I think the traditional form of sacking or bagging a horse out is a good example of this. This is where a horse is tied to a big post with a big halter and a big lead rope and exposed to scary objects (like hosing or chaff bags with tins inside) until he stops fighting to get away.
This type of training is called ‘flooding’ and is does not take into account how the horse feels inside. With any type of flooding the horse has to go through a peak fear response before they give up and submit. But even after submission, feeling ok is not taken into account by flooding a horse. If you go back and look at the bridling video by John O’Leary that I posted on April 5, you’ll see an example of flooding a horse through his fear until he submits albeit reluctantly to being bridled.
Here is video of John Pinnell whom I mentioned last posting as one of the old-time horse trainers that I knew when I was a kid growing up in Sydney. Here John is using a flooding technique to teach a horse to be caught.
All training has some level of flooding (eg. tightening a saddle a horse for the first time), but it can be done in a way that helps the horse feel ok. This is done by the preparation for the flooding. For example, when you rug a horse for the first time, you can fold the rug into a small object and rub the horse all over bit by bit without putting him on high alert. As the horse begins to feel better (not just submitting, but actually feeling ok inside) you unfold the rug in increments and continue to work at helping him feel ok. In this way, by the time the horse is carrying the rug with the straps done up it far less of a challenge than if he had been rugged like he had come out of his mother wearing one.
Likewise, if your horse is afraid of an object you are best to let him look at that object at what he feels is a safe distance. But then move him to go in an arc past that object at a safe distance. After going past it a short distance he will feel less worried and at that moment you should ask him to turn back towards the object and pass it again in an arc. Repeat this and you will find that each time he passes the object the safe distance gets closer and closer to the scary thing. In this way you are expanding the horse’s comfort limits in a way that he feels is not jeopardizing his survival – yet still helping him to feel braver. If you insist on forcing the horse to go up to the scary object you may be making him more submissive, but you are undermining his trust in you because you are telling him that his survival is less important to you than his obedience. This will never get him feeling better about his work. Which means you’ll only ever get obedience, but never the willingness that makes the horse give his best.
Training cannot squash survival instincts. If a horse thinks he is going to die all the best training in the world is not going to change what he does next. Fear and anxiety are what makes working with horses so difficult at times. If you can approach the training by trying to minimize the fear and helping a horse to feel ‘ok’ you are on the path to having a truly good relationship with your horse and getting the best that he has to give from him.
April 12, 2012
WHY DO GROUND WORK?
The issue of why do groundwork has come up again recently on a horse forum. There has been discussion on what difference does groundwork make to the ridden work? It’s a really common question from folks who don’t come from a background where groundwork is part of their everyday repertoire.
Most people who are not familiar with the philosophy behind groundwork expect that if they have a problem when riding their horse, the groundwork is suppose to fix it. They hope that doing some Parelli 7 game type exercises will correct their horse’s resistance or their shying or their snitchiness or their lack of forward or their too much forward etc. But of course this is not true.
Groundwork helps prepare a horse to be better under saddle, but it does not eradicate riding issues. The issue that most people have with horses when riding them stems from either a lack of focus or a lack of clarity. Focus and clarity are the basis of all things good and bad between humans and horses. When there is a break down in one or both of these trouble is brewing. Good groundwork can help with both of these aspects of working with a horse.
This is particularly true with a horse’s focus. I see horses all the time with attention deficit syndrome. My friend Shea Stewart recently wrote an article discussing horse’s primary and secondary thoughts. I don’t mean to gazump her article (which I don’t think is published yet), but to put it succinctly people should be in a horse’s primary thoughts, but most often are in their secondary thoughts (or sometime even lower down the priority order). Groundwork can go a long way towards improving a horse’s focus on the rider and handler.
Most times it is a lot easier to gain a horse’s attention when you are on the ground within visual contact of a horse than it is when you are in the saddle largely out of visual range. When being ridden the cues that a horse must be listening to come primarily from feeling what the rider is doing rather than seeing what he is doing. When a person is on the ground the horse can pick up the cues by watching as well as feeling. This is much easier for a horse. It’s how they communicate with each other. Therefore, with a horse that struggles to be attentive to people, groundwork is a good place to start.
It does not necessarily mean that if a horse is concentrating when you are on the ground that he will automatically concentrate when you on his back. But what I know for certain is that if is not focussing on the person in the groundwork, it will be a lot more challenging to get him to focus in the ridden work. I believe that if the groundwork is not good the ridden work is not as good as it could be.
The other aspect of doing groundwork that can be a big help when it comes to riding is in regards to a horse’s emotional state. This often comes hand-in-hand with concentration too – but not always. I’ve talked before about a horse having a limit of worry and tension it can hold inside before it has to come out. My friend Harry talks about a cup full of worry and I think this is an excellent analogy. He describes horses as being able to hold a cup full. The more worry that gets added to the cup the more resistance the horse offers. If too much worry is put into the cup, the worry overflows the cup and the horse exhibits some degree of melt down.
In order to avoid having a horse’s cup overflow we should all try to keep the cup as empty of worry as possible. Groundwork can go a long way to ensure your horse’s cup is as empty as possible before sitting in the saddle. This is especially important with horses that carry a lot of tension under saddle – typically green horses being started or off the track thoroughbreds or horses that just seem to stress when ridden. By doing good groundwork resulting in an emotionally calm and focused horse, it can be an enormous help towards having the horse cope and perform much better under saddle. Again, groundwork does not necessarily cure the problem of tension under saddle, but it can open a window of opportunity to have a horse calm and quiet when the riding begins. This is a much better beginning than throwing a leg over a horse that is ready to explode when you first get in the saddle.
Most of us think of groundwork as worth doing for reasons that have to do with handling a horse on the ground such as float loading or picking their feet or leading them from the paddock or tying up. But people who are not familiar with performing groundwork often overlook the relevance to the ridden work. Often once a horse is home from being broken in or having some level of training, many owners don’t continue the groundwork that was begun at the trainers. There is an attitude that their horse has already been taught groundwork so there is no need to do it again.
As I have said, nobody has to do groundwork and doing it is not necessarily going to turn around a troubled horse. But no matter how good a horse is under saddle, if the groundwork is not up to scratch the ridden work is not as good as it could be.
The issue of why do groundwork has come up again recently on a horse forum. There has been discussion on what difference does groundwork make to the ridden work? It’s a really common question from folks who don’t come from a background where groundwork is part of their everyday repertoire.
Most people who are not familiar with the philosophy behind groundwork expect that if they have a problem when riding their horse, the groundwork is suppose to fix it. They hope that doing some Parelli 7 game type exercises will correct their horse’s resistance or their shying or their snitchiness or their lack of forward or their too much forward etc. But of course this is not true.
This is particularly true with a horse’s focus. I see horses all the time with attention deficit syndrome. My friend Shea Stewart recently wrote an article discussing horse’s primary and secondary thoughts. I don’t mean to gazump her article (which I don’t think is published yet), but to put it succinctly people should be in a horse’s primary thoughts, but most often are in their secondary thoughts (or sometime even lower down the priority order). Groundwork can go a long way towards improving a horse’s focus on the rider and handler.
Most times it is a lot easier to gain a horse’s attention when you are on the ground within visual contact of a horse than it is when you are in the saddle largely out of visual range. When being ridden the cues that a horse must be listening to come primarily from feeling what the rider is doing rather than seeing what he is doing. When a person is on the ground the horse can pick up the cues by watching as well as feeling. This is much easier for a horse. It’s how they communicate with each other. Therefore, with a horse that struggles to be attentive to people, groundwork is a good place to start.
It does not necessarily mean that if a horse is concentrating when you are on the ground that he will automatically concentrate when you on his back. But what I know for certain is that if is not focussing on the person in the groundwork, it will be a lot more challenging to get him to focus in the ridden work. I believe that if the groundwork is not good the ridden work is not as good as it could be.
The other aspect of doing groundwork that can be a big help when it comes to riding is in regards to a horse’s emotional state. This often comes hand-in-hand with concentration too – but not always. I’ve talked before about a horse having a limit of worry and tension it can hold inside before it has to come out. My friend Harry talks about a cup full of worry and I think this is an excellent analogy. He describes horses as being able to hold a cup full. The more worry that gets added to the cup the more resistance the horse offers. If too much worry is put into the cup, the worry overflows the cup and the horse exhibits some degree of melt down.
In order to avoid having a horse’s cup overflow we should all try to keep the cup as empty of worry as possible. Groundwork can go a long way to ensure your horse’s cup is as empty as possible before sitting in the saddle. This is especially important with horses that carry a lot of tension under saddle – typically green horses being started or off the track thoroughbreds or horses that just seem to stress when ridden. By doing good groundwork resulting in an emotionally calm and focused horse, it can be an enormous help towards having the horse cope and perform much better under saddle. Again, groundwork does not necessarily cure the problem of tension under saddle, but it can open a window of opportunity to have a horse calm and quiet when the riding begins. This is a much better beginning than throwing a leg over a horse that is ready to explode when you first get in the saddle.
Most of us think of groundwork as worth doing for reasons that have to do with handling a horse on the ground such as float loading or picking their feet or leading them from the paddock or tying up. But people who are not familiar with performing groundwork often overlook the relevance to the ridden work. Often once a horse is home from being broken in or having some level of training, many owners don’t continue the groundwork that was begun at the trainers. There is an attitude that their horse has already been taught groundwork so there is no need to do it again.
As I have said, nobody has to do groundwork and doing it is not necessarily going to turn around a troubled horse. But no matter how good a horse is under saddle, if the groundwork is not up to scratch the ridden work is not as good as it could be.
Report on Progress from Maryanne
Hi Ross,
Maybe I’m just a crappy rider/trainer! Anyway, I have to not get down when things don’t go well and realise that maybe I did the best in the circumstances.
I took him for another ride today. He was much better both in the yard and out today, but I am still not happy with saddle fit. Flocking was soft at front and with my weight I think it may bear down on him. Just fitted and reflocked a two weeks ago. My gut feeling keeps saying it’s not right. If the saddle is not right then it would make his wither pockets quite sore. Today, he was not showing the extreme anxiety, just a couple of neighs and his stops were good, not running through my hands or trying to take over or bracing his body. There was no fight in him today. I kept the session short and ended on a positive note. He still shows a tendency to move around the mounting block, but with a bit of patience and prep I get there. He still has the tendency to want to go forward without being asked on mounting and I just bend him and let him walk in a small circle till he stops and then release. It does not take long. Today when ridden there was no rushing or breaking into trot and he was in a much better place mentally. The horses generally were much more settled today and the cold front has moved on. I am starting to think that the other day, some saddle issues, plus weather, plus anxiety overwhelmed him. Even touching his body today he was far less defensive. I will get the body worker back to check him out again given he’s been in work for about 2 weeks now.
As for horse, 9th ride today. Horse is going okay. Rode in arena and outside in paddock. He’s had a break for 7 days. He is listening and trying. Some loss of focus at times when he saw his friends in another paddock but I rode on and away from them. Have been doing some small amounts of trotting and at times have noticed his ears back but kept him moving forward. I think he’s rather enjoyed his long holiday. He is a little anxious about being saddled up and will walk around me when I have the saddle in hand and approach. I stand still and he will circle and then stop. I approach and saddle when he is still. He will stand still then without any further issue. He was also saddle fitted so it’s either just a bit of reluctance/avoidance now he’s back in work. I can stop him no problem to just my seat. Riding on loose rein.
Maryanne
I'm glad you had a better time of it today with the pony. I guess just keep going and see what transpires. It's hard to be too definitive with just one or two bad rides. You need to be looking at patterns as the pony gets more work. One bad session doesn't mean a whole lot, but 5 bad sessions has meaning. When I was doing my PhD I worked with a professor who use to say "one experimental result is no experiment, but two experimental results is a 1000 experiments" - meaning that if you could repeat a result twice it was worth a 1000 times more than recording just one observation.
I wouldn't be too worried about your horse being a little less ready for his ride today. At his stage a weeks holiday is the same as 6 months holiday on an experienced horse.
Hi Ross,
Maybe I’m just a crappy rider/trainer! Anyway, I have to not get down when things don’t go well and realise that maybe I did the best in the circumstances.
I took him for another ride today. He was much better both in the yard and out today, but I am still not happy with saddle fit. Flocking was soft at front and with my weight I think it may bear down on him. Just fitted and reflocked a two weeks ago. My gut feeling keeps saying it’s not right. If the saddle is not right then it would make his wither pockets quite sore. Today, he was not showing the extreme anxiety, just a couple of neighs and his stops were good, not running through my hands or trying to take over or bracing his body. There was no fight in him today. I kept the session short and ended on a positive note. He still shows a tendency to move around the mounting block, but with a bit of patience and prep I get there. He still has the tendency to want to go forward without being asked on mounting and I just bend him and let him walk in a small circle till he stops and then release. It does not take long. Today when ridden there was no rushing or breaking into trot and he was in a much better place mentally. The horses generally were much more settled today and the cold front has moved on. I am starting to think that the other day, some saddle issues, plus weather, plus anxiety overwhelmed him. Even touching his body today he was far less defensive. I will get the body worker back to check him out again given he’s been in work for about 2 weeks now.
As for horse, 9th ride today. Horse is going okay. Rode in arena and outside in paddock. He’s had a break for 7 days. He is listening and trying. Some loss of focus at times when he saw his friends in another paddock but I rode on and away from them. Have been doing some small amounts of trotting and at times have noticed his ears back but kept him moving forward. I think he’s rather enjoyed his long holiday. He is a little anxious about being saddled up and will walk around me when I have the saddle in hand and approach. I stand still and he will circle and then stop. I approach and saddle when he is still. He will stand still then without any further issue. He was also saddle fitted so it’s either just a bit of reluctance/avoidance now he’s back in work. I can stop him no problem to just my seat. Riding on loose rein.
Maryanne
I'm glad you had a better time of it today with the pony. I guess just keep going and see what transpires. It's hard to be too definitive with just one or two bad rides. You need to be looking at patterns as the pony gets more work. One bad session doesn't mean a whole lot, but 5 bad sessions has meaning. When I was doing my PhD I worked with a professor who use to say "one experimental result is no experiment, but two experimental results is a 1000 experiments" - meaning that if you could repeat a result twice it was worth a 1000 times more than recording just one observation.
I wouldn't be too worried about your horse being a little less ready for his ride today. At his stage a weeks holiday is the same as 6 months holiday on an experienced horse.
April 9, 2012
The Changes I’ve Seen
My post of last week that showed the bridling of two horses by John O’Leary and Warwick Schiller made me think about the evolution of horsemanship in Australia in my time.
When I was a kid growing up in the northern suburbs of Sydney there were two local trainers that everybody used – Johnny Pinnell and Heath Harris. Heath and his wife had begun training horses for film and television and were moving away from training for the public. But Johnny was definitely the man to see if you wanted a horse started or had a serious issue. He’d ride anything into the ground and made sure the horse understood that no prisoners would be taken. Both men were ‘old school’ and used approaches not unlike John O’Leary in the video clip. A lot of this stuff came handed down by Jim Wilton who in the 1940s through to the 60’s was famous for his team of trick horses and dogs. A couple of Wilton’s more famous students were Ian Francis and Steve Brady. Ian might be known best by some people as a mentor of Clinton Anderson. Kel Jeffrey also had an influence, but less so than Wilton. Jeffrey approached things slightly differently than Wilton. He used less gadgets and less force and was less confrontational with a horse. Kel’s most famous student was a wonderful gentleman who I considered a friend, Maurice Wright.
I don’t know for sure but I suspect Tom Roberts was strongly influenced by Kel Jeffrey and Maurice Wright. Tom was a retired British military man who settled in South Australia and wrote some wonderful books on the training of horses. Tom’s books had a marked influence on the evolution of horsemanship in Australia from the 1970’s right through to today. They are still in print and I encourage anybody to read them.
Then in the latter part of the 1980’s Pat Parelli came to Australia. This was the start of the ‘natural horsemanship’ movement in this country. Prior to that John Lyons had visited Australia but he not captured the market in the way that Parelli was about to do. Pat brought a training program that most people could learn given time and effort. His was a structured system that gave people a game plan on how to train a horse. A lot of his ideas were already around. He had incorporated the concepts of people like Dorrance, Hunt, Jeffrey, Willis and others and put them in an education package that included books, videos and a training course that enabled people to follow a step-wise program that lead to qualifications. This was a game changer in this country and many others. Since then others have copied him. In the US an Aussie called Clinton Anderson has copied the Parelli strategy and made it his own. In Australia, we have copycats like Quantum Savvy and a few ex-Parelli instructors like Australian Natural Horsemanship trying to capture some of that same market using similar programs to Parelli.
Nowadays, natural horsemanship has become a mainstay of Australian horsemanship. It’s come to be bigger than Parelli Natural Horsemanship. Many trainers who have nothing to do with Parelli either claim to be natural horseman or others bestow that title upon them.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been asked if I am ‘natural horseman’ or been told that I am a ‘natural horseman’. I have never understood what people mean by that. In fact, I wonder if people themselves know what they mean when they describe somebody as being or not being a ‘natural horseman’.
This may not be a popular view that will win me many friends, but in my opinion most methods of horsemanship are all the same. It doesn’t matter if you call it traditional or cosmicalogical horsemanship. It doesn’t matter what saddle you use or clothes you wear or tack you put on your horse. It doesn’t even matter what exercises or methods you use in your training. From a horses point of view most training methods are all the same. Why do I say this?
Most styles of horsemanship are based on increasing amounts of pressure to make something happen. No matter what you call a particular style of horsemanship, it’s all the same because most trainers/riders keep getting stronger and stronger until they get a change in the horse.
Watch the video again from my last post of John O’Leary teaching a horse to accept a bridle. John uses hobbles, lead rope and halter to box a horse into a situation where evading the bridle is impossible. John makes it happen.
Now watch a video by Clinton Anderson
My post of last week that showed the bridling of two horses by John O’Leary and Warwick Schiller made me think about the evolution of horsemanship in Australia in my time.
When I was a kid growing up in the northern suburbs of Sydney there were two local trainers that everybody used – Johnny Pinnell and Heath Harris. Heath and his wife had begun training horses for film and television and were moving away from training for the public. But Johnny was definitely the man to see if you wanted a horse started or had a serious issue. He’d ride anything into the ground and made sure the horse understood that no prisoners would be taken. Both men were ‘old school’ and used approaches not unlike John O’Leary in the video clip. A lot of this stuff came handed down by Jim Wilton who in the 1940s through to the 60’s was famous for his team of trick horses and dogs. A couple of Wilton’s more famous students were Ian Francis and Steve Brady. Ian might be known best by some people as a mentor of Clinton Anderson. Kel Jeffrey also had an influence, but less so than Wilton. Jeffrey approached things slightly differently than Wilton. He used less gadgets and less force and was less confrontational with a horse. Kel’s most famous student was a wonderful gentleman who I considered a friend, Maurice Wright.
I don’t know for sure but I suspect Tom Roberts was strongly influenced by Kel Jeffrey and Maurice Wright. Tom was a retired British military man who settled in South Australia and wrote some wonderful books on the training of horses. Tom’s books had a marked influence on the evolution of horsemanship in Australia from the 1970’s right through to today. They are still in print and I encourage anybody to read them.
Then in the latter part of the 1980’s Pat Parelli came to Australia. This was the start of the ‘natural horsemanship’ movement in this country. Prior to that John Lyons had visited Australia but he not captured the market in the way that Parelli was about to do. Pat brought a training program that most people could learn given time and effort. His was a structured system that gave people a game plan on how to train a horse. A lot of his ideas were already around. He had incorporated the concepts of people like Dorrance, Hunt, Jeffrey, Willis and others and put them in an education package that included books, videos and a training course that enabled people to follow a step-wise program that lead to qualifications. This was a game changer in this country and many others. Since then others have copied him. In the US an Aussie called Clinton Anderson has copied the Parelli strategy and made it his own. In Australia, we have copycats like Quantum Savvy and a few ex-Parelli instructors like Australian Natural Horsemanship trying to capture some of that same market using similar programs to Parelli.
Nowadays, natural horsemanship has become a mainstay of Australian horsemanship. It’s come to be bigger than Parelli Natural Horsemanship. Many trainers who have nothing to do with Parelli either claim to be natural horseman or others bestow that title upon them.
I can’t tell you how many times I have been asked if I am ‘natural horseman’ or been told that I am a ‘natural horseman’. I have never understood what people mean by that. In fact, I wonder if people themselves know what they mean when they describe somebody as being or not being a ‘natural horseman’.
This may not be a popular view that will win me many friends, but in my opinion most methods of horsemanship are all the same. It doesn’t matter if you call it traditional or cosmicalogical horsemanship. It doesn’t matter what saddle you use or clothes you wear or tack you put on your horse. It doesn’t even matter what exercises or methods you use in your training. From a horses point of view most training methods are all the same. Why do I say this?
Most styles of horsemanship are based on increasing amounts of pressure to make something happen. No matter what you call a particular style of horsemanship, it’s all the same because most trainers/riders keep getting stronger and stronger until they get a change in the horse.
Watch the video again from my last post of John O’Leary teaching a horse to accept a bridle. John uses hobbles, lead rope and halter to box a horse into a situation where evading the bridle is impossible. John makes it happen.
Now watch a video by Clinton Anderson
In this clip Clinton does not use hobbles, but he uses his training stick in a way in the same way that John uses his hobbles and lead rope. The horse has the constant threat of being hit with the stick if he does not comply. There is no polite ask from Clinton. From the moment of asking his horse to do something Clinton is threatening with the stick and if the horse is not as snappy as Clinton wants the stick becomes more threatening. Clinton uses the stick to make the horse respond. He does not use the stick to block something or give a horse a thought. Instead Clinton is making the horse back up.
I believe that in terms of the effect on how a horse feels, there is no difference between the way John O’Leary teaches his horse to accept the bridle and the way Clinton teaches his horse to back up. Both trainers have the attitude of making a horse submit.
This is just an example of what I believe is typical in world the horsemanship.
No matter what label you put on a style of training or on a trainer or rider, everywhere you go training is about increasing amounts of pressure to make a horse choose what we want. It doesn’t matter what equipment or what lovely ‘mother earth’ statements a trainer makes. It only matters how a horse feels inside about the training. There is very little difference between traditional horsemanship and natural horsemanship because they both work on the same premise of increasing the pressure to force a choice on a horse. What most people think of as ‘natural horsemanship’ today is really only traditional horsemanship that has been re-packaged and sold as something different. The label that we give a style of horsemanship is no indication of the quality of the training. The difference between a good and poor trainer is the way in which they apply the principles. It’s not the principles alone that determine a good trainer. They are not enough in themselves. The way those principles are applied are just as important as the philosophy itself.
As I watched the videos I realized that when I began training horses for other people at about the age of fifteen, I approached my work with a similar attitude as many other trainers like Johnny Pinnell and John O’Leary. I reached for the best gadget or rode in the strongest way that would make the horse submissive and obedient. But that was 40 years ago. I hope I’ve moved on.
Float Loading Update
Hi Ross,
Thought I would let you know how I went with the next float loading session with Mr W.
I got out all the equipment – long rope, flag etc, so that I could be ready to try them out. Gretel came over and we started to work on quality of leading etc right away from getting him from the paddock. We also did some backing up and lunging work with him – getting him to focus and listen better. There were a few issues, nothing major. We had horses neighing from every direction but he handled that okay.
After doing all of this I made my first attempt at loading him on the float. He walked on with me up the ramp – I stopped him at the top of the ramp, waited, patted him, then backed him off and took him away. I then did it again, stopping at different parts of the float, waited, took a few steps forward, waited, when he went to shift his weight back, I put a little pressure on the halter and he shifted his weight forward. He went on without any fuss. I think he was a bit worried in the float, but not worried enough to make any effort to go out. I patted him and slowly backed him out one step at a time, stopping sometimes to just do nothing. It went really well. I loaded him again the same way, then Gretel loaded him as well. He stopped once when she started the first time, she did very little and he came forward. The last time she loaded him, his body was a lot more relaxed in there. There was none of what happened the other day. We didn’t move the divider across this time around – just wanted to make the whole thing a good experience (for all of us!). We dragged the divider across when he was on the ground in front of the ramp just to see if the noise and movement bothered him – it didn’t.
At no time, did we get sleepy eyes – I was very happy about that.
I will continue with this over Easter and hopefully things will continue to improve. I will make sure I have the back-up equipment should it be needed.
Thanks again for your advice.
Hope you and Michele have a nice Easter.
Cheers
Michelle
It sounds like it went very well with Mr W and the floating saga.
If he is the sort of horse that digs his feet in the ground and says "No" one day and then is the most compliant of horses the next, it suggests to me that you have work to do on getting him focused and attentive to you. It's not a good strategy to be reliant on what side of the bed he got out of for how the day is going to pan out.
Keep working at it and let me know how you get along.
Hi Ross,
Thought I would let you know how I went with the next float loading session with Mr W.
I got out all the equipment – long rope, flag etc, so that I could be ready to try them out. Gretel came over and we started to work on quality of leading etc right away from getting him from the paddock. We also did some backing up and lunging work with him – getting him to focus and listen better. There were a few issues, nothing major. We had horses neighing from every direction but he handled that okay.
After doing all of this I made my first attempt at loading him on the float. He walked on with me up the ramp – I stopped him at the top of the ramp, waited, patted him, then backed him off and took him away. I then did it again, stopping at different parts of the float, waited, took a few steps forward, waited, when he went to shift his weight back, I put a little pressure on the halter and he shifted his weight forward. He went on without any fuss. I think he was a bit worried in the float, but not worried enough to make any effort to go out. I patted him and slowly backed him out one step at a time, stopping sometimes to just do nothing. It went really well. I loaded him again the same way, then Gretel loaded him as well. He stopped once when she started the first time, she did very little and he came forward. The last time she loaded him, his body was a lot more relaxed in there. There was none of what happened the other day. We didn’t move the divider across this time around – just wanted to make the whole thing a good experience (for all of us!). We dragged the divider across when he was on the ground in front of the ramp just to see if the noise and movement bothered him – it didn’t.
At no time, did we get sleepy eyes – I was very happy about that.
I will continue with this over Easter and hopefully things will continue to improve. I will make sure I have the back-up equipment should it be needed.
Thanks again for your advice.
Hope you and Michele have a nice Easter.
Cheers
Michelle
It sounds like it went very well with Mr W and the floating saga.
If he is the sort of horse that digs his feet in the ground and says "No" one day and then is the most compliant of horses the next, it suggests to me that you have work to do on getting him focused and attentive to you. It's not a good strategy to be reliant on what side of the bed he got out of for how the day is going to pan out.
Keep working at it and let me know how you get along.
How To Hold A Lead Rope Safely
I think this a good little video, especially for people who want to teach their kids the correct way to safely hold a lead rope. I don’t think enough attention is paid to safety issues like this. People tend to gloss over them.
I think this a good little video, especially for people who want to teach their kids the correct way to safely hold a lead rope. I don’t think enough attention is paid to safety issues like this. People tend to gloss over them.
April 5, 2012
The Tale of Two Training Attitudes
I thought I would post the two video clips that highlight two very different approaches to training a horse with a similar problem. In both videos the horses are very green and evade being bridled. See how these two gentlemen go about solving the issue. I think they are well worth your time watching and comparing.
The first is from John O’Leary from South Australia.
I thought I would post the two video clips that highlight two very different approaches to training a horse with a similar problem. In both videos the horses are very green and evade being bridled. See how these two gentlemen go about solving the issue. I think they are well worth your time watching and comparing.
The first is from John O’Leary from South Australia.
John has taken an adversarial approach to dealing with the horse. He uses a method that basically causes the horse to submit to his will. His gear is stronger than the horse. The video is edited so you don’t see the battle between the horse and John, but he refers to the horse rearing and running backwards so you know there was a fight. But by using the knee hobbles and a strong lead rope John teaches the horse than fighting is futile
In some of his videos and on his web site, John mentions that a person can’t let a horse win. I think that type of thinking is epitomized in this video. I equate it going to war with a horse. John uses his best and strongest weapons and is prepared for battle.
The next video is by Warwick Schiller who is also an Aussie but now resides in California.
In contrast to John’s approach, Warwick breaks down the process of bridling into small steps. At each step he tries to ensure the horse is okay before moving to the next step. Warwick’s interest is in not just getting the bridle on the horse. He focuses of having the horse okay with each step along the way. By the middle of the clip the horse is bridled.
Compare the difference in the two horses. When John starts to bridle the horse it is trying to evade by turning his head to the right. When John unbridles him the horse tries to evade John again. In Warwick’s video the horse gets better about being bridled because his evasions become less important to him. He is less stressed by the bridling than he was when Warwick started.
I strongly suspect that if Warwick and John swapped horses the result for each trainer would be the same. That is, John would have gotten the grey bridled after a fight with the hobbles and lead rope. And Warwick would have bridled the bay horse after spending some quiet time breaking the bridling down into simple steps.
John’s focus is to get the bridle on by teaching the horse that fighting is futile. Warwick’s focus is to break it down into small steps so that the worry about the bridle is minimized for the horse. Both men got the job done, but which one do you think will have a better relationship and a better try from their horse?
Cantering
Hi Ross,
I have been thinking a lot about what I want to work on with
you at the next clinic. I really want to make the most of the opportunity,
and so have been thinking about Saruman and my canter issues.
I know any time I have mentioned it to you, I have always said Saruman bucks/pig-roots at the canter transition and then either stops or goes back to the trot. (or I pull him up out of self preservation - a bad habit I know, I think
he has got the message buck equals stop!)
In retrospect though, it isn't a bucking at the canter issue at all, it is a complete
lack of canter in the first place - the bucking is just the end result of the all
the worry and confusion I am putting in him trying to get the canter.
I have made the mistake of letting him go into this huge trot at times, hoping he will break into a canter - but I realize this has just taught him that was the right thing to do!
I have been to various instructors, as I mentioned to you when we
were chatting at Harry's clinic in Macclesfield, and it seems the general
consensus is that it is lack of quality (forward) trot.You also mentioned this as a possible cause, although of course you couldn't really say, because you haven't seen us attempt the canter before. In a nutshell, we invariably work on the trot for a couple of lessons, then finances tighten for a bit and I stop having lessons, so don't attempt to canter, waiting for the opportunity for further instruction so we get it right, rather than create more problems.
I have been giving it a lot thought lately, and while I admit, the trot is far from perfect and leaves much room for improvement, what is also happening, is there is no clear cue from me, and Saruman's faster and faster
trot and inevitable pig-root/buck, is a result of confusion. I am obviously not
asking clearly or correctly, and he is giving me what he thinks I'm asking for.
(a friend who is a jockey and used to ride Grand Prix dressage was able to canter him both directions from a medium trot. He humped once at the transitions, was urged forward, and cantered freely on 20 meter circles both ways).
So....what I'm thinking we really need to focus on, is teaching me how to ride my horse into a canter with the correct and clear cue. I know the trot has to be balanced and of good quality first, but I really hope we can get to that canter when I see you. (I feel the trot is something I can work on on my own, but with the canter I am lost.) I can't expect him to canter if I'm so fuzzy about asking for it. There is a good round yard at Wandin, maybe it would help me to get the right cues on the ground in there first. (I also have trouble getting him to canter in a round pen - free or online.)
In the meantime, can you please explain your version of cue to canter?
I have been waiting until the trot feels good, and then sit for a couple of strides into the corner and try to give a squeeze with my outside leg behind the girth - inside leg on the girth...I don't think I have been doing too much with my reins other than shortening slightly - although I have read that you should raise the inside rein to free up the shoulder but to be honest I don't think half of these things are happening when I attempt it, which is possibly the root of my problem!
Arghhh! Anyway, there you have it - that's what I want to work on! I am really sorry to waffle on so much, but as you know, I often turn up for clinics a bit vague about what I want help with and then later think of all the issues you could help me with! I know, we will see what we will see, and your take on it will likely be vastly different to mine, but I felt I would like to give you a mental picture now, rather than give you some vague, half-baked synopsis on the day!
Thanks for taking the time to read this rant, I hope you haven't aged too much in the process!
Happy Easter to you and Michele,
Regards,
Miriam
Hi Ross,
I have been thinking a lot about what I want to work on with
you at the next clinic. I really want to make the most of the opportunity,
and so have been thinking about Saruman and my canter issues.
I know any time I have mentioned it to you, I have always said Saruman bucks/pig-roots at the canter transition and then either stops or goes back to the trot. (or I pull him up out of self preservation - a bad habit I know, I think
he has got the message buck equals stop!)
lack of canter in the first place - the bucking is just the end result of the all
the worry and confusion I am putting in him trying to get the canter.
I have made the mistake of letting him go into this huge trot at times, hoping he will break into a canter - but I realize this has just taught him that was the right thing to do!
I have been to various instructors, as I mentioned to you when we
were chatting at Harry's clinic in Macclesfield, and it seems the general
consensus is that it is lack of quality (forward) trot.You also mentioned this as a possible cause, although of course you couldn't really say, because you haven't seen us attempt the canter before. In a nutshell, we invariably work on the trot for a couple of lessons, then finances tighten for a bit and I stop having lessons, so don't attempt to canter, waiting for the opportunity for further instruction so we get it right, rather than create more problems.
I have been giving it a lot thought lately, and while I admit, the trot is far from perfect and leaves much room for improvement, what is also happening, is there is no clear cue from me, and Saruman's faster and faster
trot and inevitable pig-root/buck, is a result of confusion. I am obviously not
asking clearly or correctly, and he is giving me what he thinks I'm asking for.
(a friend who is a jockey and used to ride Grand Prix dressage was able to canter him both directions from a medium trot. He humped once at the transitions, was urged forward, and cantered freely on 20 meter circles both ways).
So....what I'm thinking we really need to focus on, is teaching me how to ride my horse into a canter with the correct and clear cue. I know the trot has to be balanced and of good quality first, but I really hope we can get to that canter when I see you. (I feel the trot is something I can work on on my own, but with the canter I am lost.) I can't expect him to canter if I'm so fuzzy about asking for it. There is a good round yard at Wandin, maybe it would help me to get the right cues on the ground in there first. (I also have trouble getting him to canter in a round pen - free or online.)
In the meantime, can you please explain your version of cue to canter?
I have been waiting until the trot feels good, and then sit for a couple of strides into the corner and try to give a squeeze with my outside leg behind the girth - inside leg on the girth...I don't think I have been doing too much with my reins other than shortening slightly - although I have read that you should raise the inside rein to free up the shoulder but to be honest I don't think half of these things are happening when I attempt it, which is possibly the root of my problem!
Arghhh! Anyway, there you have it - that's what I want to work on! I am really sorry to waffle on so much, but as you know, I often turn up for clinics a bit vague about what I want help with and then later think of all the issues you could help me with! I know, we will see what we will see, and your take on it will likely be vastly different to mine, but I felt I would like to give you a mental picture now, rather than give you some vague, half-baked synopsis on the day!
Thanks for taking the time to read this rant, I hope you haven't aged too much in the process!
Happy Easter to you and Michele,
Regards,
Miriam
All that sounds fine. I'm sure we will find a way to help Saruman with the canter. Don't despair.
I don't think the problem is a lack of correct cues for the canter. Horses don't innately know that inside leg on the girth and outside leg behind the girth and inside flexion automatically means to canter. It's something they have to be taught. In the green horse the canter transition comes from preparation at the trot. When he is ready at the trot, the canter comes easily. That's why your instructors talk about working on the trot. But sometimes you have to just take a horse to the canter even if his trot is not up to scratch because he needs to know a transition is possible. I don't know if Saruman needs that, but it is something to keep in mind.
Anyway, I'm sure I will see some during the clinic in May that will give you ideas on how to improve his canter work.
Gentle Horsemanship?
Hi Ross,
I’m still laughing about that video you put up. Mainly because there is so much truth in it that I’ve seen in the horse riding world. I was also floored yet again by the approach of that new client when you turned up to help her. Okay, it may take some time to educate a person, but to still hold her thoughts after you try is just a waste of your time. You must feel like the trainer in that dressage video.
I think one of the main obstacles that people face in learning about horses is their preconceived ideas and expectations. The expectations are driven by clubs, shows, egos, commercial marketing, personal agendas to name a few that often push all the wrong things that affect horsemanship. To go from having problems to finding a solution requires a totally open mind. In my own case first and foremost, I had to recognise I was getting it wrong, then explore ways to fix things, with my horse and myself. If I did something well, it showed in horse’s reactions to me and I built on those, piece by piece. It can’t be achieved by a lack of leadership or no tough love. I feel in a kind of special place, having gone from that person who could barely control her horse on the ground and having a sick feeling about what would happen next to someone now riding and training the same horse. A middle aged returner rider amateur!
The great thing about being a nobody in the horse world for me is freedom and contentment. I can concentrate on my relationship with my horse and not worry about any expectations. I wear my flannete shirts, old boots and baggy jeans with honour. I am a complete fashion understatement! For over a year, my only horse gear purchases were books, a rope halter and a good training rope. No doubt if I walked into the local horse gear shops dressed in my riding attire and armed with a very modest shopping list I would be shunned! My horses live together out in the paddock, with hay as their diet and time to be horses without a paddock boot, rug or colour coordinated accessory to be seen!
Regards Maryanne
Recognizing that you are getting it wrong is certainly an issue when looking for a path to follow. But I think the next step is choosing to make the changes in yourself.
Many years ago I had a lady ask me to help her with an very sweet 4 year old Andalusian mare. The mare was highly strung and had a habit of prancing and dancing whenever she sat in the saddle. The problem was that the owner insisted on riding with a lot of contact and pushing her forward with spurs. I rode the mare with a loose contact and no spurs and the horse was terrific. In fact I would like to have taken her home. The lady said she didn't want to ride that way and she wanted the horse to submit to her aids. She added that she had been riding for 30 years and her last 3 horses didn't behave like the mare. I asked her why would she expect her green broke mare to be the same as her other horses? I told her she was lucky to have this mare because it will teacher her to be a better rider. But she didn't want to be a better rider. She wanted a better horse. In the end I told her that I didn't know how to make a horse feel okay about bad riding, but maybe she could find another trainer who could make her horse ignore her riding.
People constantly confound me. But luckily I've had some wonderful clients over the years that have given me more than enough satisfaction to make up for the frustration of the other bunch.
Ross,
Thank you for your advice, my mare is doing much better. In fact, I think I am finally getting a feel for how to show her that she can relax because I can be a good leader. I've stopped creeping around to protect her from being afraid. I just read your most recent post, regarding how people come to you for help and then insist that you coo and pet their horse to convince it to have manners. I recognize your frustration and I just wanted to send off my support of your ways. I have been one of those people--and I have run into so many trainers that don't 'get it.' They either keep applying pressure without recognizing the needs of the horse, or they ask so gently that the horse never recognizes what is being asked and never learns. In a way, both of these are forms of abuse.
In fact, I do believe that my journey with horses is a spiritual one--but that doesn't mean it is all warm and fuzzy. It is painful and difficult to admit when my ego is taking over to meet my own personal needs (to be liked by my horse, to be understood by other people, etc...). My responsibility lies in making it possible for my horse to have a good life--and the only way to do that is to insist on manners, enforce clear boundaries, and be a good leader. I have had to let go of the impulse to make up for mistakes (my own and those of many others). In other words, I need to live in the present moment, where all horses reside. Thank you for being one of the people who seem to 'get it.'
Kimberly
I'm very glad to hear about the improvement with your horse.
I think we all need to do perform regular soul searching with our approach to horses. Whether you are a great horse person or a poor one, no harm can come from having a good contemplation about how you get along with your horses. But progress is almost impossible without it. It should be a like a spring cleaning. I am constantly trying to be judge and jury with myself, so maybe that's why it comes so easily to do it with others. I find it hard to understand someone like the lady in my post who has so much conviction about how her horse should be approached, yet has so much trouble with the horse. I could understand her conviction if her horse was fantastic, but not when he is a mess. What gives her so much certainty in the face of so much trouble? It's a conundrum!
Hi Ross,
I’m still laughing about that video you put up. Mainly because there is so much truth in it that I’ve seen in the horse riding world. I was also floored yet again by the approach of that new client when you turned up to help her. Okay, it may take some time to educate a person, but to still hold her thoughts after you try is just a waste of your time. You must feel like the trainer in that dressage video.
I think one of the main obstacles that people face in learning about horses is their preconceived ideas and expectations. The expectations are driven by clubs, shows, egos, commercial marketing, personal agendas to name a few that often push all the wrong things that affect horsemanship. To go from having problems to finding a solution requires a totally open mind. In my own case first and foremost, I had to recognise I was getting it wrong, then explore ways to fix things, with my horse and myself. If I did something well, it showed in horse’s reactions to me and I built on those, piece by piece. It can’t be achieved by a lack of leadership or no tough love. I feel in a kind of special place, having gone from that person who could barely control her horse on the ground and having a sick feeling about what would happen next to someone now riding and training the same horse. A middle aged returner rider amateur!
The great thing about being a nobody in the horse world for me is freedom and contentment. I can concentrate on my relationship with my horse and not worry about any expectations. I wear my flannete shirts, old boots and baggy jeans with honour. I am a complete fashion understatement! For over a year, my only horse gear purchases were books, a rope halter and a good training rope. No doubt if I walked into the local horse gear shops dressed in my riding attire and armed with a very modest shopping list I would be shunned! My horses live together out in the paddock, with hay as their diet and time to be horses without a paddock boot, rug or colour coordinated accessory to be seen!
Regards Maryanne
Recognizing that you are getting it wrong is certainly an issue when looking for a path to follow. But I think the next step is choosing to make the changes in yourself.
Many years ago I had a lady ask me to help her with an very sweet 4 year old Andalusian mare. The mare was highly strung and had a habit of prancing and dancing whenever she sat in the saddle. The problem was that the owner insisted on riding with a lot of contact and pushing her forward with spurs. I rode the mare with a loose contact and no spurs and the horse was terrific. In fact I would like to have taken her home. The lady said she didn't want to ride that way and she wanted the horse to submit to her aids. She added that she had been riding for 30 years and her last 3 horses didn't behave like the mare. I asked her why would she expect her green broke mare to be the same as her other horses? I told her she was lucky to have this mare because it will teacher her to be a better rider. But she didn't want to be a better rider. She wanted a better horse. In the end I told her that I didn't know how to make a horse feel okay about bad riding, but maybe she could find another trainer who could make her horse ignore her riding.
People constantly confound me. But luckily I've had some wonderful clients over the years that have given me more than enough satisfaction to make up for the frustration of the other bunch.
Ross,
Thank you for your advice, my mare is doing much better. In fact, I think I am finally getting a feel for how to show her that she can relax because I can be a good leader. I've stopped creeping around to protect her from being afraid. I just read your most recent post, regarding how people come to you for help and then insist that you coo and pet their horse to convince it to have manners. I recognize your frustration and I just wanted to send off my support of your ways. I have been one of those people--and I have run into so many trainers that don't 'get it.' They either keep applying pressure without recognizing the needs of the horse, or they ask so gently that the horse never recognizes what is being asked and never learns. In a way, both of these are forms of abuse.
In fact, I do believe that my journey with horses is a spiritual one--but that doesn't mean it is all warm and fuzzy. It is painful and difficult to admit when my ego is taking over to meet my own personal needs (to be liked by my horse, to be understood by other people, etc...). My responsibility lies in making it possible for my horse to have a good life--and the only way to do that is to insist on manners, enforce clear boundaries, and be a good leader. I have had to let go of the impulse to make up for mistakes (my own and those of many others). In other words, I need to live in the present moment, where all horses reside. Thank you for being one of the people who seem to 'get it.'
Kimberly
I'm very glad to hear about the improvement with your horse.
I think we all need to do perform regular soul searching with our approach to horses. Whether you are a great horse person or a poor one, no harm can come from having a good contemplation about how you get along with your horses. But progress is almost impossible without it. It should be a like a spring cleaning. I am constantly trying to be judge and jury with myself, so maybe that's why it comes so easily to do it with others. I find it hard to understand someone like the lady in my post who has so much conviction about how her horse should be approached, yet has so much trouble with the horse. I could understand her conviction if her horse was fantastic, but not when he is a mess. What gives her so much certainty in the face of so much trouble? It's a conundrum!
Mr Willoughby And Floating
Hi Ross,
Read your latest blog (1st April) with interest. Was that an April fools joke? If not, sounds like some horsey people in NSW are a bit softer than us Victorians. I am quietly hoping that you upset too many people and get run out of NSW and have to come back to Victoria. I know there are a lot of your other clients that would wish the same! I mean that in the nicest possible way. I also really liked the responses to your posts on blogs – your site is so educational and makes people think – I would be lost without it. Thank you for all you do – it is so time consuming and you need to know that people do appreciate all the effort you put in.
As I was reading about this lady who didn’t want you to upset her horse, I started to feel a bit guilty about wishing yesterday that I had an electric prodder for Mr Willoughby. Does that make me a bad person? Anyway, as I sit here typing aching from head to toe I would like some advice regarding my darling 2 year old (latest photo attached).
I decided to do some float loading with Mr W yesterday– I haven’t done it for a very long time and thought I should go back to it. I pushed the middle partition across to the side as I have done every time I have float loaded him and he walked on perfectly and backed off perfectly – twice! I stopped his feet many times both forwards and backwards and I was very happy and proud of him. I then decided to move the centre partition into place and try again. He got half way on and then his fat tummy felt the partition and he didn’t like it. He backed out and then the fun began. I tried again and again to get him on and he decided 2 front feet on the ramp were enough. I moved the partition out of the way and started again. Without being able to show you what I did, I will try to explain. I did all the pressure, release stuff, so any movement of feet forward, instant release. But it got to the point of me applying pressure to head, clucking, swinging rope, smacking end of rope on gum boot to make big sound etc – and nothing. He started to get that sleepy look about him – not even a loud slapping on the gum boots with end of rope bothered him. He just stood there planted. Then when he had enough, pull back, pull back, rear once or twice and I would let him have his head as the front legs came up and then as soon as he landed apply the pressure again. He would walk to the ramp, put two feet on it and plant himself again. This went on for quite some time. I am sure you have seen this occur with people trying to float load their horses. I pretty much ran out of ideas. I eventually got 4 feet on the ramp and then 2 steps into the float and I quit. He was in a lather of sweat and so was I. Another thing I did in between trying was to lunge him to try and make sure he knew that swinging rope meant forward. He did that okay. And I could get him to back and come forward on the ground. Sometimes, I do struggle to get him to come forward to pressure on the ground, but he usually gives to the pressure eventually – say 30 seconds or less, but not yesterday. I have seen you work a horse with the flag at one of your clinics to get him to float load (enormous Clydie) and it worked (of course), but I don’t want to try it as I could see that I may get into trouble and just make the whole thing worse.
I know you say that often float loading is a leading issue.
Could you get me to work on other things before I go back to trying this again (I also am going to need 2 days off due to working muscles that have been in retirement for about 20 years!) – are there things I should be doing on the ground? – ie. Walking over tarps, logs etc. Or, should I take the easy option and wait until your first Mirboo Nth Lesson for you to work on this at 7am in the morning? I think your answer will be not the second option.
Part of me is pleased this happened as it has given me lots to work on and things for us to do when you are here. Part of me looks forward to your response (and part of me is a bit scared!)
Cheers
Michelle Mac
Thanks for the photo of Mr Willoughby. I wouldn't have recognized him from 18 months ago.
It seems you have 3 different issues to work on with the float floating. The first is your temper. Quit it. It's not helping. If you feel yourself ready to spit the dummy or reach for the cattle prod, put your horse away and come back another time after a glass or two of wine.
Second issue is that you have to do as much as you have to do to stop Mr W from getting that sleepy look. The sleepy look is not good. He is simmering inside and will eventually explode out the back of the float. So don't let him go there. If whacking your boot is not motivating him to search for a different option, then you have to either change something or get even bigger - which you choose will depend - but there is nothing wrong in using a guess to choose one of the options and seeing if that helped and if not going to the alternative option.
Just as examples of changing something. You could have a second person behind the horse flipping a long rope across the ground behind the horse (like a snake) or tie one end of the rope to one side of the rear of the float and the handler be behind the horse swinging it like a huge skipping rope whenever he thought about backing up. Or you could use a water pistol to squirt the horse's rear end or back legs when he started to lean back against the lead rope. Or the second person could use a flag behind the horse.
But you could also just increase the pressure from whacking your boot with the lead rope to something bigger. Firstly, just try hitting your boots harder and harder and getting a bigger noise. You can even bump him with the tail end of your rope if it will help. You could use a flag and even get quite violent at hitting the ground if necessary. Or you could tap his sides with a dressage whip. Or (as I did in the Satts stories) use a squeeky toy anytime he got the shut down sleepy look. Once he is awake and wide eyed, go back to asking him forward. Don't keep applying the big pressure to make him come forward - just to block him from mentally going away. Remember you get big to stop something from happening, not to make something happen.
It is not really important what you do, as long as you motivate him to search. He must be kept searching. Once he is searching, just be persistent and wait until he gets close to something that you wanted. But if he is not searching you have to either get bigger or change what you are doing in order to bring back to search mode.
Of course, your success or otherwise will depend on the skill with which you apply any technique. Mr W needs his thoughts inside the float. If he looks away, tell him to get his thought back to you and the float. If he is crooked straighten him up. If he tried coming forward, relax, give him a moment. You might ask hm forward again or you might ask him to step back before asking him forward. But if he is running backwards, you need to be asking him forward immediately and don't stop asking until he at least stops running back and maybe leans forward again - even if it means he had run back 50m.
The third issue you have is his reaction to the divider touching his sides. I am sure the problem is not having the divider touch his sides. I strongly suspect the problem is that he is already on edge and worried, and when the divider touches him he had reached his limit of what he can tolerate. It's like watching a really scary moving and then suddenly somebody taps you on the shoulder. So the answer is to get Mr W comfortable with standing in the float. If he is relaxed, the divider won't be much of a problem.
First get the loading and unloading going really well and comfortable with the divider at a diagonal angle. Have him so he can stand there quietly for as long as you like. When you've got that working, make sure you can touch him all over while he stands there. Then swing the divider back and forth without it touching him. Just the noise and movement. If I'm correct, this should cause Mr W almost no problem or a very minor one. Then swing the divider so it gently just kisses his sides and is gone again in a flash. If he rushes out, being him back in and start again. Work at being able to be more and more casual with the divider and Mr W standing comfortably. Make sure you give him breaks in and out of the float. I think that you'll find the more relaxed he is about being in the float the less of a problem the divider will be. Very soon you'll be able to load him with the divider in the centre and he won't care.
I hope that gives you enough ideas to play and experiment with. If you are not sure or get stuck you can always send me a video clip.
Let me know how you get along and don't forget the glass of wine (unless you are one of those angry drunks!).
Say hi to Vaughan.
PS: I forget to add that there seems to be an issue with the fact that Mr W was ignoring you when you whacked your boot with the lead rope. To me it suggests that you have dulled him out to your requests. Part of training encompasses teaching a horse to become more responsive to our requests, so we can do less in order to get more. But if you are needing to whack firmly with the rope then it would appear that Mr W may becoming less responsive, not more. This may indicate that you are not following through when you ask something of him and he ignores you. I'm sure you've heard me say many times that anytime you ask a horse to do something you must get some sort of change, otherwise you are nagging him. Give it some thought and see if that is happening.
Thanks Ross – you have given me a lot to work with….and more ideas than I had, with lots of detail. I will let you know how I go.
By the way – I wasn’t really that mad with him – and I knew the sleepy look was not a good thing – and was disappointed that it got to that. My lack of experience, I know. I think the glass of wine is a good idea in any case.
Sorry – just read this bit after the first bit and my reply.
I think you are right – thinking about it, his only response to me whacking the boot is to put his head up in the air, but often there is no change in thought. The other 3 horses all respond to much less. So I think I must have dulled him. If I am leading Mr W and he isn’t coming forward to the pressure or boot whack, I sometimes put the lead rope in my left hand and swing the rope a little to his left side and he will then walk with me – sometimes it’s not even a swing, but just raising the rope a little. However, this didn’t work with the float loading, so it obviously doesn’t have a whole lot of meaning to him.
It’s really difficult with him as I am so used to a very sensitive Toby who responds so well to things when asked, and he searches for answers if he doesn’t do what I have asked. I know it’s different as Toby is broken in and has done so much more, but I am finding Mr W a big challenge.
I will show your response to Gretel and get her to help me with all of this as well.
Thanks again.
Michelle
Hi Ross,
Read your latest blog (1st April) with interest. Was that an April fools joke? If not, sounds like some horsey people in NSW are a bit softer than us Victorians. I am quietly hoping that you upset too many people and get run out of NSW and have to come back to Victoria. I know there are a lot of your other clients that would wish the same! I mean that in the nicest possible way. I also really liked the responses to your posts on blogs – your site is so educational and makes people think – I would be lost without it. Thank you for all you do – it is so time consuming and you need to know that people do appreciate all the effort you put in.
I decided to do some float loading with Mr W yesterday– I haven’t done it for a very long time and thought I should go back to it. I pushed the middle partition across to the side as I have done every time I have float loaded him and he walked on perfectly and backed off perfectly – twice! I stopped his feet many times both forwards and backwards and I was very happy and proud of him. I then decided to move the centre partition into place and try again. He got half way on and then his fat tummy felt the partition and he didn’t like it. He backed out and then the fun began. I tried again and again to get him on and he decided 2 front feet on the ramp were enough. I moved the partition out of the way and started again. Without being able to show you what I did, I will try to explain. I did all the pressure, release stuff, so any movement of feet forward, instant release. But it got to the point of me applying pressure to head, clucking, swinging rope, smacking end of rope on gum boot to make big sound etc – and nothing. He started to get that sleepy look about him – not even a loud slapping on the gum boots with end of rope bothered him. He just stood there planted. Then when he had enough, pull back, pull back, rear once or twice and I would let him have his head as the front legs came up and then as soon as he landed apply the pressure again. He would walk to the ramp, put two feet on it and plant himself again. This went on for quite some time. I am sure you have seen this occur with people trying to float load their horses. I pretty much ran out of ideas. I eventually got 4 feet on the ramp and then 2 steps into the float and I quit. He was in a lather of sweat and so was I. Another thing I did in between trying was to lunge him to try and make sure he knew that swinging rope meant forward. He did that okay. And I could get him to back and come forward on the ground. Sometimes, I do struggle to get him to come forward to pressure on the ground, but he usually gives to the pressure eventually – say 30 seconds or less, but not yesterday. I have seen you work a horse with the flag at one of your clinics to get him to float load (enormous Clydie) and it worked (of course), but I don’t want to try it as I could see that I may get into trouble and just make the whole thing worse.
I know you say that often float loading is a leading issue.
Could you get me to work on other things before I go back to trying this again (I also am going to need 2 days off due to working muscles that have been in retirement for about 20 years!) – are there things I should be doing on the ground? – ie. Walking over tarps, logs etc. Or, should I take the easy option and wait until your first Mirboo Nth Lesson for you to work on this at 7am in the morning? I think your answer will be not the second option.
Part of me is pleased this happened as it has given me lots to work on and things for us to do when you are here. Part of me looks forward to your response (and part of me is a bit scared!)
Cheers
Michelle Mac
Thanks for the photo of Mr Willoughby. I wouldn't have recognized him from 18 months ago.
It seems you have 3 different issues to work on with the float floating. The first is your temper. Quit it. It's not helping. If you feel yourself ready to spit the dummy or reach for the cattle prod, put your horse away and come back another time after a glass or two of wine.
Second issue is that you have to do as much as you have to do to stop Mr W from getting that sleepy look. The sleepy look is not good. He is simmering inside and will eventually explode out the back of the float. So don't let him go there. If whacking your boot is not motivating him to search for a different option, then you have to either change something or get even bigger - which you choose will depend - but there is nothing wrong in using a guess to choose one of the options and seeing if that helped and if not going to the alternative option.
Just as examples of changing something. You could have a second person behind the horse flipping a long rope across the ground behind the horse (like a snake) or tie one end of the rope to one side of the rear of the float and the handler be behind the horse swinging it like a huge skipping rope whenever he thought about backing up. Or you could use a water pistol to squirt the horse's rear end or back legs when he started to lean back against the lead rope. Or the second person could use a flag behind the horse.
But you could also just increase the pressure from whacking your boot with the lead rope to something bigger. Firstly, just try hitting your boots harder and harder and getting a bigger noise. You can even bump him with the tail end of your rope if it will help. You could use a flag and even get quite violent at hitting the ground if necessary. Or you could tap his sides with a dressage whip. Or (as I did in the Satts stories) use a squeeky toy anytime he got the shut down sleepy look. Once he is awake and wide eyed, go back to asking him forward. Don't keep applying the big pressure to make him come forward - just to block him from mentally going away. Remember you get big to stop something from happening, not to make something happen.
It is not really important what you do, as long as you motivate him to search. He must be kept searching. Once he is searching, just be persistent and wait until he gets close to something that you wanted. But if he is not searching you have to either get bigger or change what you are doing in order to bring back to search mode.
Of course, your success or otherwise will depend on the skill with which you apply any technique. Mr W needs his thoughts inside the float. If he looks away, tell him to get his thought back to you and the float. If he is crooked straighten him up. If he tried coming forward, relax, give him a moment. You might ask hm forward again or you might ask him to step back before asking him forward. But if he is running backwards, you need to be asking him forward immediately and don't stop asking until he at least stops running back and maybe leans forward again - even if it means he had run back 50m.
The third issue you have is his reaction to the divider touching his sides. I am sure the problem is not having the divider touch his sides. I strongly suspect the problem is that he is already on edge and worried, and when the divider touches him he had reached his limit of what he can tolerate. It's like watching a really scary moving and then suddenly somebody taps you on the shoulder. So the answer is to get Mr W comfortable with standing in the float. If he is relaxed, the divider won't be much of a problem.
First get the loading and unloading going really well and comfortable with the divider at a diagonal angle. Have him so he can stand there quietly for as long as you like. When you've got that working, make sure you can touch him all over while he stands there. Then swing the divider back and forth without it touching him. Just the noise and movement. If I'm correct, this should cause Mr W almost no problem or a very minor one. Then swing the divider so it gently just kisses his sides and is gone again in a flash. If he rushes out, being him back in and start again. Work at being able to be more and more casual with the divider and Mr W standing comfortably. Make sure you give him breaks in and out of the float. I think that you'll find the more relaxed he is about being in the float the less of a problem the divider will be. Very soon you'll be able to load him with the divider in the centre and he won't care.
I hope that gives you enough ideas to play and experiment with. If you are not sure or get stuck you can always send me a video clip.
Let me know how you get along and don't forget the glass of wine (unless you are one of those angry drunks!).
Say hi to Vaughan.
PS: I forget to add that there seems to be an issue with the fact that Mr W was ignoring you when you whacked your boot with the lead rope. To me it suggests that you have dulled him out to your requests. Part of training encompasses teaching a horse to become more responsive to our requests, so we can do less in order to get more. But if you are needing to whack firmly with the rope then it would appear that Mr W may becoming less responsive, not more. This may indicate that you are not following through when you ask something of him and he ignores you. I'm sure you've heard me say many times that anytime you ask a horse to do something you must get some sort of change, otherwise you are nagging him. Give it some thought and see if that is happening.
Thanks Ross – you have given me a lot to work with….and more ideas than I had, with lots of detail. I will let you know how I go.
By the way – I wasn’t really that mad with him – and I knew the sleepy look was not a good thing – and was disappointed that it got to that. My lack of experience, I know. I think the glass of wine is a good idea in any case.
Sorry – just read this bit after the first bit and my reply.
I think you are right – thinking about it, his only response to me whacking the boot is to put his head up in the air, but often there is no change in thought. The other 3 horses all respond to much less. So I think I must have dulled him. If I am leading Mr W and he isn’t coming forward to the pressure or boot whack, I sometimes put the lead rope in my left hand and swing the rope a little to his left side and he will then walk with me – sometimes it’s not even a swing, but just raising the rope a little. However, this didn’t work with the float loading, so it obviously doesn’t have a whole lot of meaning to him.
It’s really difficult with him as I am so used to a very sensitive Toby who responds so well to things when asked, and he searches for answers if he doesn’t do what I have asked. I know it’s different as Toby is broken in and has done so much more, but I am finding Mr W a big challenge.
I will show your response to Gretel and get her to help me with all of this as well.
Thanks again.
Michelle
Rex Peterson
This is a video by Rex Peterson. Rex is a very famous trainer who has made a living training horses for Hollywood. He trained the stunt horses on the film “The Horse Whisperer” and many others.
This video gives you an idea of his approach. Notice he yanks on the war bridle as punishment. His main focus is in teaching obedience. The horse never really relaxes as seen by his posture and tight musculature. Yet he talks about his methods evoking “trust and obedience” in a horse.
Rex seems to equate obedience with trust when they are in fact two different things. The horse gets punished for the wrong response. But Rex considers the punishment as teaching the horse to right way.
I should state a bias here because whenever I see a war bridle being used on a horse I immediately bristle and am reluctant to give the trainer the benefit of the doubt. In my view, no good horseman would ever use a war bridle.
Rex has other videos on YouTube that you can check out which will tell you pretty much the same story.
This is a video by Rex Peterson. Rex is a very famous trainer who has made a living training horses for Hollywood. He trained the stunt horses on the film “The Horse Whisperer” and many others.
This video gives you an idea of his approach. Notice he yanks on the war bridle as punishment. His main focus is in teaching obedience. The horse never really relaxes as seen by his posture and tight musculature. Yet he talks about his methods evoking “trust and obedience” in a horse.
Rex seems to equate obedience with trust when they are in fact two different things. The horse gets punished for the wrong response. But Rex considers the punishment as teaching the horse to right way.
I should state a bias here because whenever I see a war bridle being used on a horse I immediately bristle and am reluctant to give the trainer the benefit of the doubt. In my view, no good horseman would ever use a war bridle.
Rex has other videos on YouTube that you can check out which will tell you pretty much the same story.
April 1, 2012
Gentle Horsemanship
Not so long ago I wrote about a lady who asked me to visit and give some help with a difficult Warmblood. I mentioned that she was not happy that at times I firmed up on her horse. Well, during the week I visited another lady with similar troubles with her stockhorse.
When I got out of the car and after introductions I went to the rear of my car and pulled out my chaps, a rope halter and lead and a flag. For me these are standard items of equipment that I carry on every visit to help people with horses. I don’t always use them, but I like to have them with me in case I need them.
When the lady saw the halter and the flag, she told me that she didn’t want me to use them on her horse. She said she had seen horses get rope burns from rope halters and also seen horses terrified by flags. She was worried that her horse would become scared. This was even before I had seen the horse or even knew if the halter and flag were necessary.
I was a little annoyed at her assumption that I was there to terrify her horse, but I suggested that she first show me what her horse is like and then we can discuss how I might approach the issue.
I watched from outside her yard. Even in a yard she caught her horse with a carrot. She slipped on her leather halter while the horse was staring off towards his mates in the other paddock. When she tried to lead him forward, he stood his ground and she waited and waited until he decided to follow. Then he swapped sides on her several times and when she stopped him he pushed into her, swung his head around to see his friends and knocked the side of her head.
I asked her why I was called out and she said to teach her horse better manners on the ground. Then I gave her “the talk” about how he expects she will get out of his space wherever he goes. I told her about how another horse would not tolerate this etc. You know what I mean.
I took the lead rope from her and asked him to politely step back out of my space. But instead of backing up he walked straight at me. I bumped him hard and thwacked the end of the lead on my chaps. The horse leapt in the air and off to the side. He didn’t go backwards, but he did suddenly register I was there and he needed to listen to me. I pointed this out to the owner while I rubbed her horse on the face.
She said she didn’t think he needed to be scared and that she was looking for a kinder approach. We discussed her idea that her horse just needed kindness to be shown the way to respond. But I bluntly told her that she had been doing that all along and this is what she got. I said horses don’t need you to be their friend – they have other horses for that. What they need is to believe that you offer a leadership that will keep them safe. I told her frankly that her desire to be her horse’s friend and not upset him has caused these problems and has left him totally lost about which one of them is leading the relationship. He ignores her because her presence worries him via her lack of clarity about his role in the relationship.
Of course, this upset her and I left another unhappy customer.
I have experienced a few times before people who think about training horses in terms of what feels good to them. The lady felt good about being kind and gentle to her horse. It didn’t matter to her that she was making the horse miserable. She didn’t want to know about that. If helping her horse meant setting clear and definite boundaries, she’d rather leave her horse stressed and bothered because not upsetting him was her first priority.
We all have agendas when working with horses. Some have an agenda to win ribbons, some to instil obedience, some to have a better relationship, some to make them feel better, some to have something in their life they can dominate and control, some to have a sport they can share with family and friends, some to given them an excuse to get away from the kids. The lady I saw during the week had an agenda that was to make her feel good about being a kind and gentle friend to her horse. She was determined she was going to do this no matter what I said or what the horse felt. This was all about making her feel better, not her horse.
I find many people get sucked into training schemes that try to make them feel good. I think of the schools of Nevzorov, Hempfling, Resnick and others. They use language and marketing strategies that are designed to evoke warm and fuzzy emotions from people. Their videos have slow motion drama, soft focus and emotive music. They talk about horsemanship as a spiritual journey etc. But when you look at the horses closely you see troubled and stressed horses that are little more than obedient. Nevertheless, people feel good about being on a spiritual journey with their horsemanship and too bad what the horse needs. This is what the lady with the stockhorse is looking for.
I don’t know how to help somebody be good with a horse and still not be prepared to change his or her approach. Clearly, the approach they are using when I see them is not working otherwise I would not get called out or they would not be coming to a clinic. Yet, even with that knowledge that they are doing something wrong, they are virtually adamant their overall philosophy is correct. Any changes they are prepared to make are superficial and on the fringes. I find this to be true even after I have worked the horse and got very dramatic improvements. They can’t let go of their agenda. If demonstrating how a horse can change by offering focus and clarity does not cause people to re-think their approach, I don’t know what else can be done.
Sometimes I have had clients who started out with an agenda that needed changing and I thought I would never be able to help them. But months and even years later I hear from them again wanting to make changes. It seems time and more experience has brought about a new way of thinking about their horse. I don’t think any of it can be attributed to me. I think it is part of evolving at a horse person that experience brings about that gets them thinking differently.
This is Alexander Nevzorov and his promotional video - slow motion, music, dramatic movements.
Not so long ago I wrote about a lady who asked me to visit and give some help with a difficult Warmblood. I mentioned that she was not happy that at times I firmed up on her horse. Well, during the week I visited another lady with similar troubles with her stockhorse.
When I got out of the car and after introductions I went to the rear of my car and pulled out my chaps, a rope halter and lead and a flag. For me these are standard items of equipment that I carry on every visit to help people with horses. I don’t always use them, but I like to have them with me in case I need them.
When the lady saw the halter and the flag, she told me that she didn’t want me to use them on her horse. She said she had seen horses get rope burns from rope halters and also seen horses terrified by flags. She was worried that her horse would become scared. This was even before I had seen the horse or even knew if the halter and flag were necessary.
I was a little annoyed at her assumption that I was there to terrify her horse, but I suggested that she first show me what her horse is like and then we can discuss how I might approach the issue.
I watched from outside her yard. Even in a yard she caught her horse with a carrot. She slipped on her leather halter while the horse was staring off towards his mates in the other paddock. When she tried to lead him forward, he stood his ground and she waited and waited until he decided to follow. Then he swapped sides on her several times and when she stopped him he pushed into her, swung his head around to see his friends and knocked the side of her head.
I asked her why I was called out and she said to teach her horse better manners on the ground. Then I gave her “the talk” about how he expects she will get out of his space wherever he goes. I told her about how another horse would not tolerate this etc. You know what I mean.
I took the lead rope from her and asked him to politely step back out of my space. But instead of backing up he walked straight at me. I bumped him hard and thwacked the end of the lead on my chaps. The horse leapt in the air and off to the side. He didn’t go backwards, but he did suddenly register I was there and he needed to listen to me. I pointed this out to the owner while I rubbed her horse on the face.
She said she didn’t think he needed to be scared and that she was looking for a kinder approach. We discussed her idea that her horse just needed kindness to be shown the way to respond. But I bluntly told her that she had been doing that all along and this is what she got. I said horses don’t need you to be their friend – they have other horses for that. What they need is to believe that you offer a leadership that will keep them safe. I told her frankly that her desire to be her horse’s friend and not upset him has caused these problems and has left him totally lost about which one of them is leading the relationship. He ignores her because her presence worries him via her lack of clarity about his role in the relationship.
Of course, this upset her and I left another unhappy customer.
I have experienced a few times before people who think about training horses in terms of what feels good to them. The lady felt good about being kind and gentle to her horse. It didn’t matter to her that she was making the horse miserable. She didn’t want to know about that. If helping her horse meant setting clear and definite boundaries, she’d rather leave her horse stressed and bothered because not upsetting him was her first priority.
We all have agendas when working with horses. Some have an agenda to win ribbons, some to instil obedience, some to have a better relationship, some to make them feel better, some to have something in their life they can dominate and control, some to have a sport they can share with family and friends, some to given them an excuse to get away from the kids. The lady I saw during the week had an agenda that was to make her feel good about being a kind and gentle friend to her horse. She was determined she was going to do this no matter what I said or what the horse felt. This was all about making her feel better, not her horse.
I find many people get sucked into training schemes that try to make them feel good. I think of the schools of Nevzorov, Hempfling, Resnick and others. They use language and marketing strategies that are designed to evoke warm and fuzzy emotions from people. Their videos have slow motion drama, soft focus and emotive music. They talk about horsemanship as a spiritual journey etc. But when you look at the horses closely you see troubled and stressed horses that are little more than obedient. Nevertheless, people feel good about being on a spiritual journey with their horsemanship and too bad what the horse needs. This is what the lady with the stockhorse is looking for.
I don’t know how to help somebody be good with a horse and still not be prepared to change his or her approach. Clearly, the approach they are using when I see them is not working otherwise I would not get called out or they would not be coming to a clinic. Yet, even with that knowledge that they are doing something wrong, they are virtually adamant their overall philosophy is correct. Any changes they are prepared to make are superficial and on the fringes. I find this to be true even after I have worked the horse and got very dramatic improvements. They can’t let go of their agenda. If demonstrating how a horse can change by offering focus and clarity does not cause people to re-think their approach, I don’t know what else can be done.
Sometimes I have had clients who started out with an agenda that needed changing and I thought I would never be able to help them. But months and even years later I hear from them again wanting to make changes. It seems time and more experience has brought about a new way of thinking about their horse. I don’t think any of it can be attributed to me. I think it is part of evolving at a horse person that experience brings about that gets them thinking differently.
This is Alexander Nevzorov and his promotional video - slow motion, music, dramatic movements.