Ross' Soap Box
8 March '10
It's been busy the past couple of days. Yesterday I got up really early to take Michele to the airport. I got home just in time to go to work. Spent the day dodging storms and hail and clearing fallen limbs from the fences. When the hail arrived I don't think the horses could work out who was throwing rocks at them. Poor Birch could find nowhere to hide.
Six has developed her annual dose of mud fever. Each year she gets badly infected on 2 legs. In the past I have tried many veterinary recommended treatments. They have all worked, but they have always been a prolonged treatment that required not only a plenty of time, but removal of the scab which caused Six a lot of pain.
A client recommended a treatment that she had successfully used on her gelding after a 6 month battle with various other treatments. I tried it on Six and within a couple of days the improvement has been dramatic.
It requires a concoction of vaseline (petroleum jelly), sulphur and tea tree oil. It is applied thickly daily on top of the scabs - no need to remove the scab. Keep the area dry - don't let moisture near the scabs - which means either stabling, yarding or paddocked on short grass. Six is in a paddock with short grass so the legs are not affected by dew.
This is the recipe that I have been using.
Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) - 100g
Sulphur Powder - 1 teaspoon
Tea Tree Oil - 30 drops
It needs to be mixed well because the sulphur will clump in the vaseline. I used a small dish and mixed it up with a spoon for about 10 minutes. Don't use a good silver spoon because the sulphur will tarnish the silver. Make sure you use disposable gloves when you apply it to the leg or wash hands thoroughly afterwards.
I will put this treatment on the HorseTalk page under Veterinary heading.
As just about anybody who deals with the public as part of their job will tell you, the biggest headaches are caused by people. Michele and I think we are pretty lucky because we feel we have a fairly high percentage of good clients, but nevertheless when we get a bad one it's enough to make us feel like doing something else for a living.
A horse was sent to us for starting a while back. The owner wanted to eventually be able to compete in eventing. She had only owned the horse for a few months before sending it to us and told us that the horse had had nothing done with it. Then she asked that we get it use to plastic bags because he was terrified of plastic bags. When I asked what experience he had with plastic bags, the owners tell me that she had used a flag (plastic bag on a stick) to lunge the horse. So now instead of having nothing done I am learning that the owner had attempted to lunge the horse and used a plastic bag to terrorize it. She said he needed his feet shod. I asked had she had them done before. The answer came back that the horse had been trimmed, but not shod. She added the horse was terrific to trim. When I contacted her farrier, he tells me that the horse was really bad to trim and it took 3 times longer than normal. He wondered if the horse could be shod. So again the owner tells me another lie.
The farrier came to shoe the horse after he had been with us for 3 weeks of work and was amazed at how different he was to handle. During the shoeing I mentioned to the farrier that the horse had bucked when the saddle was first put on and how terrified the poor horse was of everything that was new. I added that the horse was doing much better and hadn't offered to buck when ridden. I also mentioned that the owner seemed surprised that the horse didn't buck when it was ridden. The farrier then said that he wasn't surprised that the owner was surprised because the owner had been bucked off the horse pretty badly. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
The owner told us the horse the horse had nothing done with it and then we find out that she had tried to start the horse herself and messed up badly. No wonder the horse was bundle of nerves.
Why did she lie? What sort of idiot would lie about such things? I don't understand what would motivate her to deliberately make up stories about her horse to somebody she is trusting to break him in. This is the sort of owner who should not be allowed to have a horse. Not only does she lack the skill to not traumatize her horse, but she shows a total lack of integrity to ensure she always has the horse's best interests as a priority.
Some of you may disagree with me and some of you may think that people like her are the exception. I wish that were true. I believe that you don't have to have tremendous skill to be a good horse owner. A person can offer a horse a good home and be deserving of a horse's confidence by being considerate of the horse and having good intent. I think you do need humility. I think you need to love a horse for what it is and not for what you want it to be. You need to care about acquiring more skill and you do need to have integrity. These are essential qualities for the good horse owner and more important than being able to buy pretty bridles or expensive feeds. If any of them are lacking, then I think there is a question mark about your qualifications to be a good horse owner.
Horses deserve the best humans they can get. I was talking to a bloke a few days ago whom I have known for years and who I have always considered a bully with his horses. He said that he just bought a new horse that was terrific. He said it took him forever to finally find the perfect horse. I made the comment to him as I walked away that I wondered how long it will be before his horse finds the perfect owner?
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Mud Fever
Six has developed her annual dose of mud fever. Each year she gets badly infected on 2 legs. In the past I have tried many veterinary recommended treatments. They have all worked, but they have always been a prolonged treatment that required not only a plenty of time, but removal of the scab which caused Six a lot of pain.
A client recommended a treatment that she had successfully used on her gelding after a 6 month battle with various other treatments. I tried it on Six and within a couple of days the improvement has been dramatic.
It requires a concoction of vaseline (petroleum jelly), sulphur and tea tree oil. It is applied thickly daily on top of the scabs - no need to remove the scab. Keep the area dry - don't let moisture near the scabs - which means either stabling, yarding or paddocked on short grass. Six is in a paddock with short grass so the legs are not affected by dew.
This is the recipe that I have been using.
Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) - 100g
Sulphur Powder - 1 teaspoon
Tea Tree Oil - 30 drops
It needs to be mixed well because the sulphur will clump in the vaseline. I used a small dish and mixed it up with a spoon for about 10 minutes. Don't use a good silver spoon because the sulphur will tarnish the silver. Make sure you use disposable gloves when you apply it to the leg or wash hands thoroughly afterwards.
I will put this treatment on the HorseTalk page under Veterinary heading.
Horse Owners
As just about anybody who deals with the public as part of their job will tell you, the biggest headaches are caused by people. Michele and I think we are pretty lucky because we feel we have a fairly high percentage of good clients, but nevertheless when we get a bad one it's enough to make us feel like doing something else for a living.
A horse was sent to us for starting a while back. The owner wanted to eventually be able to compete in eventing. She had only owned the horse for a few months before sending it to us and told us that the horse had had nothing done with it. Then she asked that we get it use to plastic bags because he was terrified of plastic bags. When I asked what experience he had with plastic bags, the owners tell me that she had used a flag (plastic bag on a stick) to lunge the horse. So now instead of having nothing done I am learning that the owner had attempted to lunge the horse and used a plastic bag to terrorize it. She said he needed his feet shod. I asked had she had them done before. The answer came back that the horse had been trimmed, but not shod. She added the horse was terrific to trim. When I contacted her farrier, he tells me that the horse was really bad to trim and it took 3 times longer than normal. He wondered if the horse could be shod. So again the owner tells me another lie.
The farrier came to shoe the horse after he had been with us for 3 weeks of work and was amazed at how different he was to handle. During the shoeing I mentioned to the farrier that the horse had bucked when the saddle was first put on and how terrified the poor horse was of everything that was new. I added that the horse was doing much better and hadn't offered to buck when ridden. I also mentioned that the owner seemed surprised that the horse didn't buck when it was ridden. The farrier then said that he wasn't surprised that the owner was surprised because the owner had been bucked off the horse pretty badly. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
The owner told us the horse the horse had nothing done with it and then we find out that she had tried to start the horse herself and messed up badly. No wonder the horse was bundle of nerves.
Why did she lie? What sort of idiot would lie about such things? I don't understand what would motivate her to deliberately make up stories about her horse to somebody she is trusting to break him in. This is the sort of owner who should not be allowed to have a horse. Not only does she lack the skill to not traumatize her horse, but she shows a total lack of integrity to ensure she always has the horse's best interests as a priority.
Some of you may disagree with me and some of you may think that people like her are the exception. I wish that were true. I believe that you don't have to have tremendous skill to be a good horse owner. A person can offer a horse a good home and be deserving of a horse's confidence by being considerate of the horse and having good intent. I think you do need humility. I think you need to love a horse for what it is and not for what you want it to be. You need to care about acquiring more skill and you do need to have integrity. These are essential qualities for the good horse owner and more important than being able to buy pretty bridles or expensive feeds. If any of them are lacking, then I think there is a question mark about your qualifications to be a good horse owner.
Horses deserve the best humans they can get. I was talking to a bloke a few days ago whom I have known for years and who I have always considered a bully with his horses. He said that he just bought a new horse that was terrific. He said it took him forever to finally find the perfect horse. I made the comment to him as I walked away that I wondered how long it will be before his horse finds the perfect owner?
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5 March '10
I really screwed up with archiving the February entries. The program I am using for the web site has a few tricks that I am still working out and when I duplicated the Feb page for the archive I lost all the photos that could be zoomed. I have re-installed them, but it has taken me hours to find them and adjust them to fit on the page. I sure learned a lesson about archiving photos from an asset page.
What a busy week it has been. I didn't even get around to halter breaking 3 foals that have been on the list to do for about a month. I know they will be fairly easy to get started because they are already fairly friendly. There was one really painfully frightened foal that I have already handled. The mare always throws babies with fragile minds so I try to make sure that her foals are handled early. But to make matters worse, the foal cut her flank while still at the stud and needed stitches and a few weeks of treatment. As per usual with many thoroughbred studs there was very little time put into educating the foal or handling her tenderly. Her wound was treated daily by 2 workers pushing her against the stable wall while grabbing one ear, so the third person could treat the wound. No wonder she hates people.
Next week will be even busier because Michele is going to Sydney for a few days. My aunt has been unwell and Michele is going to spend sometime with her. In the meantime, I will be home slaving away - poor me!
What a busy week it has been. I didn't even get around to halter breaking 3 foals that have been on the list to do for about a month. I know they will be fairly easy to get started because they are already fairly friendly. There was one really painfully frightened foal that I have already handled. The mare always throws babies with fragile minds so I try to make sure that her foals are handled early. But to make matters worse, the foal cut her flank while still at the stud and needed stitches and a few weeks of treatment. As per usual with many thoroughbred studs there was very little time put into educating the foal or handling her tenderly. Her wound was treated daily by 2 workers pushing her against the stable wall while grabbing one ear, so the third person could treat the wound. No wonder she hates people.
Next week will be even busier because Michele is going to Sydney for a few days. My aunt has been unwell and Michele is going to spend sometime with her. In the meantime, I will be home slaving away - poor me!
This is the area I grew up in Sydney - around Middle Harbour.
When A Horse Doesn't Know
The subject came up recently about how horses respond when they don't know how to respond. If you ask a horse to do something and he doesn't know what to do, what happens?
I think there are two scenarios that are most common.
The first is what happens if a horse has not already got an agenda. That is when you ask something of him, you are not interrupting or getting in the way of something he is already trying to do. In this case, it is pretty easy to help a horse find the answer. If his brain is not occupied with needing to do something then he is very susceptible to being directed. He will actively search for an answer to find a way out of the pressure. He may not know the right response, but he will search for one. Usually, there is no need to be firmer or ask louder - just allow him all the time he needs and release the pressure when he heads in the right direction. Clarity and consistency in the way you ask is what is needed to overcome the horse's confusion.
The second scenario is when a horse is already using his brain and his body to try to achieve something that he thinks is necessary. The human asking for something different is only getting in his way. He may not know how to change his mind about what he is doing and is in a dilemma about what he should do. In this case, it is really common that a horse will push harder against the pressure. If he doesn't know a way out of the pressure he will often just try harder to make what he is already thinking about work out for him. This leads to the horse's resistance getting bigger.
Now here is the problem for us. Most of us (including myself) will automatically try to match the horse's resistance. As he gets stronger, we get firmer. We may not try to be bigger than the horse, but we will try to meet resistance with resistance. I use to tell people that you should match a horse resistance plus a fraction more. This was in order to keep a horse thinking about trying something new. I use to think that if my idea was weaker than his idea he would not have a motive to change his idea.
I don't know if I agree with myself anymore. I am learning that a horse can be trying even when he looks like he isn't. I am noticing that I can use a lot less pressure on a horse than I ever thought possible and get a better result. This appears true even on some horses that appear to take no interest in anything to do with the human. I have been experimenting with some of the new horses that I am breaking in. I am really happy to to discover that all of them are making more solid changes with less tension if I just give them more time and less pressure. Far less pressure than I thought I could offer and expect a horse to even notice, let alone care. This is not to say that I haven't firmed up on the horses from time to time when I felt it was needed. But overall, by doing much less even if the horse is getting bigger is gaining me some ground.
It seems that even when a horse is putting everything he has into resisting, he does not switch off the possibility to try something new. I use to think that when he was fighting that hard he was done with trying to figure it out. But I am not so sure anymore. I do believe that if a horse doesn't know the answer often his first response will be to do what he is already doing but resist harder and fight bigger. The difference is that I am trying to not get sucked into his ever increasing resistance by adding more fuel to the fire
It's a lot of fun playing with these things. But it is very humbling to realize how little I understand about how a horse ticks and to discover that they are so much more complex and intelligent than I appreciate or will possibly ever appreciate. I feel so stupid when I discover something important about horses that I have been missing all my life.
Softness vs Lightness.... again
Hello Ross
I guess that what my thoughts were that not only was I going round in circles because her thought was always veering off but that I was driving her mad with all the disengagement of her hq, yesterday I did what you had suggested. when I would ask her to go to the right and she would move like a plank I would disengage her hq then slowly release go to the right then ask for a holt, back her up and so on, she took to it like a dream in the round yard and I did it for abit till we got some real softness then stopped because it was even driving me mad. The walk was so nice that I decided for the first time in a very long time to ask for a little trot (yeh! we're moving forward). Her trot of course only lasted for four strides before she began to pace. As soon as this occurred I would get her to go into a tight circle until the trot would slow and then slowly release. I use my neck strap a lot otherwise I grab onto her mouth and we get nowhere with that. it was amazing at how quickly she picked it up, the minute her feet would rush forward I would go to grab the neck strap so that I could ask for a tight circle and she would start to slow, I guess she started to associate the movement of the neck strap (no I was not chocking her just steadying myself) with slowing her feet because she knew the next step was a tight circle, I was quite pleased we actually got some really nice trots where iwasn't bouncing around vigorously.
I will continue with the current work on gaining her focus and see how we go, thanks
Kindest Regards,
Irena
I am very glad about your successes. Keep up the good work. It won't be long before the pacing is just a memory.
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2 March '10
I've added the February entries to the archive section - see the side bar. A new story will go up on the Story page in a few days. We are so busy at the moment that my responsibilities to the web site is taking a back seat for the moment. I'll be even busier next week because Michele is going to Sydney for 3 days. I'm just glad we don't live in the arctic circle where I'd have to work until sunset!
Hello Ross and Michele
Just read your blog and had an experience today that was very similar. I normally walk Nicky past an old telegraph pole that lies near the arena she sees it everyday. Today we walked past it and it had been moved to the right so you had to pass it on the otherside. it's exactly the same pole hasn't changed one bit yet she slowed her walk down to a tiptoe and snorting like it was going to get up and eat her. We proceeded to walk on as I didn't want to make an issue of it and she came along with minimal fuss but abit hesitant. What I'm wondering is how much stress does a horse feel in the wild. I mean, things may change all the time and when they move areas nothing is the' usual' so how do they survive on a daily basis? Do they trust the braver horse so much that they basically run blind?
I have been working Nicky from the side on the ground as per the lesson and it's been my new challange. It's been quite hard I must admit. Asking her to cross her forehand is hard which must confuse her because she looks at me like I'm the dumbest person in the world and gets abit agitated because I'm not clear myself I think. Getting her to backup from the side and not the front is diffucult too I wish she was just a little forgiving of my awkwardness but that's not the case. You are right Ross she is great at learning tricks maybe I should rent her out to outback spectacular she'd fit right in. When she is not soft on a rein I will as for a hind yield till she shifts her weight and is clearly not focused on the opposite side then release without dropping the rien but it's like she knows this so well that she does what she is ment to do and looks like she is paying attention to the rein and then the slightest moment she gets her mind shifts back to where it was originally. I end up feeling like I'm on one of the rides at movie world going round and round but it's no fun. Is there something else I could ask to have her soften and catch her of guard because she's learnt that trick very well.
Saying all this we have had some success. Yesterday I opened the gate to the arena which she thought was great and was trying to get out quite promptly. I did not allow this and infact spent abit of time at the other end much to her disgust till she softened. Once out of the arena we came in and out a few times because she became abit stiff. We then had to cross a timber bridge which she does well when I am one the ground but in saddle was a whole different ball game. She would go sideways which is no good as there are ditches hence the bridge so we would turn back into the arena soften then come back out and give it another go. This went on for four goes and on the fifth I think she really wanted to stay out of the arena so she walked over the bridge like it was never there. We then a a great ride in the cross country paddocks which is like out on trail but we are still on the property, lots of new things which was great but I kept it short and sweet because she was so good and called it a day.
Today we did the same thing and she crossed the bridge a treat but was very rigid there after almost on her tiptoes so I asked her to yield her hindquarters , then walk over some trot polls, backup and a few others till she was nice and soft and not rushed in her walk. We then proceeded for a nice walk where we experienced our first puddle in saddle. It took three goes but we walked right through it and I think I smiled so hard my face began to hurt.
Well that sure was a big waffle my question was about her being soft to the rein when going right or left and whether I can try something else as she knows what to do to get the pressure off when I ask for a hind yield.
Thanks irena
You really were in the mood for writing a treatise. I can't believe you wrote all that via a phone! I'm very glad about your ride out of the arena, through the gate and over the bridge. It sounds like you are really working hard and learning a lot. I'm very happy to hear you making such great progress - you have a lot to be proud about.
Anyway, your question about how do horses handle new or different things in the wild is excellent. I think part of the answer is in that in the wild they exist in a herd. Horses naturally feel more secure around other horses and the more horses the more secure they feel. So in the wild there is a sense of safety in numbers. When things are different or new and a horse feels he is pretty much on his own, he can get really worried. But if he feels secure in the herd, their sense of danger is dampened by the feeling of being less vulnerable in a herd. I think one of the biggest challenges we face as horse people is to instill that same sense of safety in us that a horse has in a herd. It's not normal for a horse to feel safe with people in the same way he may naturally feel safe with other horses. But I believe we can get pretty close to that with a horse given enough time and good training. When that happens the new or different objects or situations will not be the trouble for our horse as they once were.
I'm not entirely sure I get your question about the softness to the right and left reins. It sounds like you are confusing softness with lightness. If you ask with one rein and she is very light on the rein, but she is still not committing with a change of thought, then you are only getting lightness and not softness. Softness comes from a change of thought and effects the whole horse. Lightness comes from trying to escape pressure and the horse not committing to changing his thought. You need to maintain the "ask" long enough to get some sort of change in the horse's idea. The amount of pressure may alter constantly - every fraction of a second - as you feel your horse making more of a "try" or less of a "try". But the release does not come until you get a change of how he feels and what he is thinking.
I don't know that I have answered your question. If not try me again. Sometimes I can be a bit like a Friesian and it takes 2 or 3 goes for me to get an idea.
These new iPhones make texting a breeze, not as easy as a keyboard but def not like a mobile phone keypad.
I think with Nicky maybe I think she is softening but maybe I can't tell. When I ask her to go left and her eye and head are looking right I pick up the left rein, release the right and ask for a quarterhind yield
I thought that I was releasing at the right time but perhaps not. She feels like she is looking to the left and I can feel a shift in her hind (rocking feeling) I then release the left rein and ask her to still continue left. We do that for abit then I ask her to go right after abit and her mind fixates on that same point on the arena again so we play the same game when we go to the left she can't let go if whatever is going on there again.
Hope this makes abit more sense. At the time of her release we do go to the left very nicely but when we head down the arena again she is always fixated on this one bush day on day out. I've let her go over and stare at it the ask to go left and it is a battle. Will have a go on my lesson day as going right is nice going left is like surfing a wave on a long board.
There's another long waffle
Irena
It sounds like you are doing everything right. But if I am reading you correct, you are concerned that when Nicky gives to the rein she immediately goers back to being fixated on something else once you release the rein. Is that what you mean?
If so, two things immediately come to mind. The first is to work at being early with your request for Nicky to re-direct her thought. Perhaps she is getting too interested in something else for too long and too strongly before you recognize she is no longer with you. The stronger her mind becomes fixated on something the harder it is to change. If you can be earlier when she is just becoming interested you will have more success.
Secondly, you may have to follow one request to re-direct her thought with another request almost immediately. If she is losing focus as soon as you release the rein, you might have to immediately ask again for something else. And then again for something else etc. For example, say you ask Nicky to step back and shift her shoulders to the left and then you release. If you feel Nicky shift her weight back onto her forehand to get ready to walk forward the moment you released the rein, you might instantly (not quickly, but early and smoothly) ask her to shift back and step her should to the right and release. If you feel her shift forward again, again pick up the reins, get her weight onto her back end and shift her shoulder right or left (it doesn't matter which direction) and release. Keep repeating until she can step her shoulder across and stand quietly without leaning forward when you release the reins. You release the pressure when you get a "try" and then take up again when she loses her "try". Do this until she holds it for a bit longer. It is the same if you were asking for a hq disengagement because she is not following the direction of the rein. Ask her to give to the rein, release and ask again almost immediately if you feel her leaking away from the turn again. Try not to drive her crazy, but sometimes you might have to repeat is once and other times you might have to repeat it 20 times. It's something you are going to have to learn to feel your way through.
Play with it and see how you go. But if in doubt, do less. You can drive a horse mad with being too insistant and doing too much.
Hi Ross,
You answered a couple of questions to my 'bitless bridle' thread on VicHorse (im Maccy13) and I was just hoping you could shed some light on something ive noticed with my horses?
The first example was about 12 months ago when i took my horse Clyde out for a trail ride. I dont ride him out on his own very often so i understood why he was so tense and looky. He then saw another horse, span and bolted towards home.
It took me a second to collect my thoughts on this massive bullet of muscle flying towards home and promptly disengaged his hind quarters. We stood there for a second, then I quietly asked him to continue on with the ride away from home as if nothing happened. He walked on quiet as a lamb, licked and chewed for a bit and then almost sooked as if he felt a bit silly for trying that on!
The second example is from today, I have recently acquired a 10yr old, 17.2hh warmblood gelding, Oscar who hasnt really been handled for about 18 months, except for hoof trimming. He has had a very good education before this and was retired to mow lawns due to lameness. He is very in your face and very boisterous, so I have started a little ground work with him to stimulate him and to understand that people are safe and enjoyable etc.
So, I asked him to move away from me and he started to lunge, so i thought, alright we'll see where this goes....
He was working well, but the occasionally would put his ears back at me and swing his head at me when i put a bit of pressure on, he would also try to turn and come in. But i continued to gently ask him to keep going at the walk. After a couple of relaxed circles at the walk i thought id ask for a trot, he cracked it again and jumped into a trot. He turned in again so i asked him to keep going and he cracked it big time! he reared up and was cantering on the spot trying to pull the rope out of my hands. I knew only he will win a game of tug-of-war, so i let him go. He had a nice big canter around but eventually stopped. So, I thought to myself - relax, dont expect too much from him - and i quietly walked up to him like nothing happened.
Then, just like Clyde, he was quiet as a lamb, licked and chewed and then sooked as if he felt silly! He was then so attentive to what i was asking and oh so sensitive and responsive.
Im just not sure what this sooky reaction is from....I am guessing that both horses were 'testing' me or something or clearly didnt think that being with me was safe or good and had a strong feeling to get the hell away from me!
So im hoping you could shed some light on why they have such a change in behaviour??
I hope i have given you enough info to understand what im talking about!!
Thanks,
Claire
Thanks for your question.
Even though the 2 situations were very different, the issue of why they changed and became mellow after the trouble is the same.
Let's look at first story where your Clydie was startled by another horse. He was on the trail feeling pretty insecure - you said he was "tense and looky". The reason he was worried was because he wanted to be back home where he thought he felt safer. Even though he was going along on the trail he was still thinking to be home. I bet if at any time you had turned him around and headed back towards home he would have walked out without hesitation and not be spooky about any of the things that he was looking at on the trip away from home. That's because his mind was back home and not think ahead where you were pointing him. A horse is always trying to be where his thoughts are. So on the trip away from home he was probably not very forward in his walk, worried and looking at everything. With all this worry inside of him, suddenly the other horse startled him. That was enough to send him over the edge and took off for home with no holding back. But when you got him stopped by disengaging his hindquarters you also got a change in his feelings. He needed to move at speed to let go of the inner worry, then by disengaging his hindquarters you brought his thought back to you on his back. It was like a release of pressure inside him. The worry was let out and he let it go. After it was gone there was no longer all that worry inside him that was getting in the way of being with you. Prior to that his worry meant you were just an lump on his back and you were getting in the way of him feeling better. But after he took off for home and you got him settled, the worry was gone and his ill feelings were no longer blocking his thoughts from listening to you. It was the change in feelings from "high alert and survival" to "mellow" allowed him to be as quiet as a lamb.
In the second scenario, your horse was having a fit while you tried to lunge him because he felt he needed to be doing something else and you were getting in the middle of ideas he already had. He was trying thinking about other things and you kept getting in his face with your idea to have him lunge around you. This caused him to have a melt down when he felt you clearly were not listening to what he was trying to tell you. But in the process of having his tantrum he felt better. He got the trouble that was biling away inside to come out, like a pressure cooker. When it was done, it was done. He was no longer totally occupied with trying to ignore you to follow up on some other idea he had. His idea and your idea of what was to happen became a lot closer to being the same idea.
It comes down to a simple fact that when a horse is thinking one thing and we are trying to make him do something that is different to what he has in mind, there is trouble. But when he is the thing he is thinking about is the same thing we are trying to get him to do, all is right with the world. Good training is all about trying to help a horse have an idea to do something that we want him to do. Poor training is simply trying to make a horse's feet do one thing while his mind is thinking about something else.
I hope that answers your question.
Hi Ross,
Thank you so much for answering my question in such clear detail. It all makes sense as to why they have behaved that way, and i guess the next task is to work out how to get them to think he had the idea of the task im asking!
I have had a good read of your website and i think your training methods are fantastic, and id reall like to come along to a clinic or lesson. I dont have a float so once i can organise transport, ill contact you again to book something in.
Thank you again,
Claire
I'm glad I was able to clear up some ideas for you. You would be very welcome to come along for some help. But until you get a float you are very welcome to come along to watch any day of a lesson weekend. The next lesson weekend is March 20 & 21. It costs nothing to watch and you only need to bring a chair, snacks and lots of questions. Details are on our web site and there are directions on how to find our place too. I hope to see you some time.
Softness versus Lightness
Hello Ross and Michele
Just read your blog and had an experience today that was very similar. I normally walk Nicky past an old telegraph pole that lies near the arena she sees it everyday. Today we walked past it and it had been moved to the right so you had to pass it on the otherside. it's exactly the same pole hasn't changed one bit yet she slowed her walk down to a tiptoe and snorting like it was going to get up and eat her. We proceeded to walk on as I didn't want to make an issue of it and she came along with minimal fuss but abit hesitant. What I'm wondering is how much stress does a horse feel in the wild. I mean, things may change all the time and when they move areas nothing is the' usual' so how do they survive on a daily basis? Do they trust the braver horse so much that they basically run blind?
I have been working Nicky from the side on the ground as per the lesson and it's been my new challange. It's been quite hard I must admit. Asking her to cross her forehand is hard which must confuse her because she looks at me like I'm the dumbest person in the world and gets abit agitated because I'm not clear myself I think. Getting her to backup from the side and not the front is diffucult too I wish she was just a little forgiving of my awkwardness but that's not the case. You are right Ross she is great at learning tricks maybe I should rent her out to outback spectacular she'd fit right in. When she is not soft on a rein I will as for a hind yield till she shifts her weight and is clearly not focused on the opposite side then release without dropping the rien but it's like she knows this so well that she does what she is ment to do and looks like she is paying attention to the rein and then the slightest moment she gets her mind shifts back to where it was originally. I end up feeling like I'm on one of the rides at movie world going round and round but it's no fun. Is there something else I could ask to have her soften and catch her of guard because she's learnt that trick very well.
Saying all this we have had some success. Yesterday I opened the gate to the arena which she thought was great and was trying to get out quite promptly. I did not allow this and infact spent abit of time at the other end much to her disgust till she softened. Once out of the arena we came in and out a few times because she became abit stiff. We then had to cross a timber bridge which she does well when I am one the ground but in saddle was a whole different ball game. She would go sideways which is no good as there are ditches hence the bridge so we would turn back into the arena soften then come back out and give it another go. This went on for four goes and on the fifth I think she really wanted to stay out of the arena so she walked over the bridge like it was never there. We then a a great ride in the cross country paddocks which is like out on trail but we are still on the property, lots of new things which was great but I kept it short and sweet because she was so good and called it a day.
Today we did the same thing and she crossed the bridge a treat but was very rigid there after almost on her tiptoes so I asked her to yield her hindquarters , then walk over some trot polls, backup and a few others till she was nice and soft and not rushed in her walk. We then proceeded for a nice walk where we experienced our first puddle in saddle. It took three goes but we walked right through it and I think I smiled so hard my face began to hurt.
Well that sure was a big waffle my question was about her being soft to the rein when going right or left and whether I can try something else as she knows what to do to get the pressure off when I ask for a hind yield.
Thanks irena
You really were in the mood for writing a treatise. I can't believe you wrote all that via a phone! I'm very glad about your ride out of the arena, through the gate and over the bridge. It sounds like you are really working hard and learning a lot. I'm very happy to hear you making such great progress - you have a lot to be proud about.
Anyway, your question about how do horses handle new or different things in the wild is excellent. I think part of the answer is in that in the wild they exist in a herd. Horses naturally feel more secure around other horses and the more horses the more secure they feel. So in the wild there is a sense of safety in numbers. When things are different or new and a horse feels he is pretty much on his own, he can get really worried. But if he feels secure in the herd, their sense of danger is dampened by the feeling of being less vulnerable in a herd. I think one of the biggest challenges we face as horse people is to instill that same sense of safety in us that a horse has in a herd. It's not normal for a horse to feel safe with people in the same way he may naturally feel safe with other horses. But I believe we can get pretty close to that with a horse given enough time and good training. When that happens the new or different objects or situations will not be the trouble for our horse as they once were.
I'm not entirely sure I get your question about the softness to the right and left reins. It sounds like you are confusing softness with lightness. If you ask with one rein and she is very light on the rein, but she is still not committing with a change of thought, then you are only getting lightness and not softness. Softness comes from a change of thought and effects the whole horse. Lightness comes from trying to escape pressure and the horse not committing to changing his thought. You need to maintain the "ask" long enough to get some sort of change in the horse's idea. The amount of pressure may alter constantly - every fraction of a second - as you feel your horse making more of a "try" or less of a "try". But the release does not come until you get a change of how he feels and what he is thinking.
I don't know that I have answered your question. If not try me again. Sometimes I can be a bit like a Friesian and it takes 2 or 3 goes for me to get an idea.
These new iPhones make texting a breeze, not as easy as a keyboard but def not like a mobile phone keypad.
I think with Nicky maybe I think she is softening but maybe I can't tell. When I ask her to go left and her eye and head are looking right I pick up the left rein, release the right and ask for a quarterhind yield
I thought that I was releasing at the right time but perhaps not. She feels like she is looking to the left and I can feel a shift in her hind (rocking feeling) I then release the left rein and ask her to still continue left. We do that for abit then I ask her to go right after abit and her mind fixates on that same point on the arena again so we play the same game when we go to the left she can't let go if whatever is going on there again.
Hope this makes abit more sense. At the time of her release we do go to the left very nicely but when we head down the arena again she is always fixated on this one bush day on day out. I've let her go over and stare at it the ask to go left and it is a battle. Will have a go on my lesson day as going right is nice going left is like surfing a wave on a long board.
There's another long waffle
Irena
It sounds like you are doing everything right. But if I am reading you correct, you are concerned that when Nicky gives to the rein she immediately goers back to being fixated on something else once you release the rein. Is that what you mean?
If so, two things immediately come to mind. The first is to work at being early with your request for Nicky to re-direct her thought. Perhaps she is getting too interested in something else for too long and too strongly before you recognize she is no longer with you. The stronger her mind becomes fixated on something the harder it is to change. If you can be earlier when she is just becoming interested you will have more success.
Secondly, you may have to follow one request to re-direct her thought with another request almost immediately. If she is losing focus as soon as you release the rein, you might have to immediately ask again for something else. And then again for something else etc. For example, say you ask Nicky to step back and shift her shoulders to the left and then you release. If you feel Nicky shift her weight back onto her forehand to get ready to walk forward the moment you released the rein, you might instantly (not quickly, but early and smoothly) ask her to shift back and step her should to the right and release. If you feel her shift forward again, again pick up the reins, get her weight onto her back end and shift her shoulder right or left (it doesn't matter which direction) and release. Keep repeating until she can step her shoulder across and stand quietly without leaning forward when you release the reins. You release the pressure when you get a "try" and then take up again when she loses her "try". Do this until she holds it for a bit longer. It is the same if you were asking for a hq disengagement because she is not following the direction of the rein. Ask her to give to the rein, release and ask again almost immediately if you feel her leaking away from the turn again. Try not to drive her crazy, but sometimes you might have to repeat is once and other times you might have to repeat it 20 times. It's something you are going to have to learn to feel your way through.
Play with it and see how you go. But if in doubt, do less. You can drive a horse mad with being too insistant and doing too much.
Why Does He Feel The Way He Feels?
Hi Ross,
You answered a couple of questions to my 'bitless bridle' thread on VicHorse (im Maccy13) and I was just hoping you could shed some light on something ive noticed with my horses?
The first example was about 12 months ago when i took my horse Clyde out for a trail ride. I dont ride him out on his own very often so i understood why he was so tense and looky. He then saw another horse, span and bolted towards home.
It took me a second to collect my thoughts on this massive bullet of muscle flying towards home and promptly disengaged his hind quarters. We stood there for a second, then I quietly asked him to continue on with the ride away from home as if nothing happened. He walked on quiet as a lamb, licked and chewed for a bit and then almost sooked as if he felt a bit silly for trying that on!
The second example is from today, I have recently acquired a 10yr old, 17.2hh warmblood gelding, Oscar who hasnt really been handled for about 18 months, except for hoof trimming. He has had a very good education before this and was retired to mow lawns due to lameness. He is very in your face and very boisterous, so I have started a little ground work with him to stimulate him and to understand that people are safe and enjoyable etc.
So, I asked him to move away from me and he started to lunge, so i thought, alright we'll see where this goes....
He was working well, but the occasionally would put his ears back at me and swing his head at me when i put a bit of pressure on, he would also try to turn and come in. But i continued to gently ask him to keep going at the walk. After a couple of relaxed circles at the walk i thought id ask for a trot, he cracked it again and jumped into a trot. He turned in again so i asked him to keep going and he cracked it big time! he reared up and was cantering on the spot trying to pull the rope out of my hands. I knew only he will win a game of tug-of-war, so i let him go. He had a nice big canter around but eventually stopped. So, I thought to myself - relax, dont expect too much from him - and i quietly walked up to him like nothing happened.
Then, just like Clyde, he was quiet as a lamb, licked and chewed and then sooked as if he felt silly! He was then so attentive to what i was asking and oh so sensitive and responsive.
Im just not sure what this sooky reaction is from....I am guessing that both horses were 'testing' me or something or clearly didnt think that being with me was safe or good and had a strong feeling to get the hell away from me!
So im hoping you could shed some light on why they have such a change in behaviour??
I hope i have given you enough info to understand what im talking about!!
Thanks,
Claire
Thanks for your question.
Even though the 2 situations were very different, the issue of why they changed and became mellow after the trouble is the same.
Let's look at first story where your Clydie was startled by another horse. He was on the trail feeling pretty insecure - you said he was "tense and looky". The reason he was worried was because he wanted to be back home where he thought he felt safer. Even though he was going along on the trail he was still thinking to be home. I bet if at any time you had turned him around and headed back towards home he would have walked out without hesitation and not be spooky about any of the things that he was looking at on the trip away from home. That's because his mind was back home and not think ahead where you were pointing him. A horse is always trying to be where his thoughts are. So on the trip away from home he was probably not very forward in his walk, worried and looking at everything. With all this worry inside of him, suddenly the other horse startled him. That was enough to send him over the edge and took off for home with no holding back. But when you got him stopped by disengaging his hindquarters you also got a change in his feelings. He needed to move at speed to let go of the inner worry, then by disengaging his hindquarters you brought his thought back to you on his back. It was like a release of pressure inside him. The worry was let out and he let it go. After it was gone there was no longer all that worry inside him that was getting in the way of being with you. Prior to that his worry meant you were just an lump on his back and you were getting in the way of him feeling better. But after he took off for home and you got him settled, the worry was gone and his ill feelings were no longer blocking his thoughts from listening to you. It was the change in feelings from "high alert and survival" to "mellow" allowed him to be as quiet as a lamb.
In the second scenario, your horse was having a fit while you tried to lunge him because he felt he needed to be doing something else and you were getting in the middle of ideas he already had. He was trying thinking about other things and you kept getting in his face with your idea to have him lunge around you. This caused him to have a melt down when he felt you clearly were not listening to what he was trying to tell you. But in the process of having his tantrum he felt better. He got the trouble that was biling away inside to come out, like a pressure cooker. When it was done, it was done. He was no longer totally occupied with trying to ignore you to follow up on some other idea he had. His idea and your idea of what was to happen became a lot closer to being the same idea.
It comes down to a simple fact that when a horse is thinking one thing and we are trying to make him do something that is different to what he has in mind, there is trouble. But when he is the thing he is thinking about is the same thing we are trying to get him to do, all is right with the world. Good training is all about trying to help a horse have an idea to do something that we want him to do. Poor training is simply trying to make a horse's feet do one thing while his mind is thinking about something else.
I hope that answers your question.
Hi Ross,
Thank you so much for answering my question in such clear detail. It all makes sense as to why they have behaved that way, and i guess the next task is to work out how to get them to think he had the idea of the task im asking!
I have had a good read of your website and i think your training methods are fantastic, and id reall like to come along to a clinic or lesson. I dont have a float so once i can organise transport, ill contact you again to book something in.
Thank you again,
Claire
I'm glad I was able to clear up some ideas for you. You would be very welcome to come along for some help. But until you get a float you are very welcome to come along to watch any day of a lesson weekend. The next lesson weekend is March 20 & 21. It costs nothing to watch and you only need to bring a chair, snacks and lots of questions. Details are on our web site and there are directions on how to find our place too. I hope to see you some time.
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